Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #801
But Simon didn't attend, so her plan for him attending is irrelevant.

I disagree. Hypothetically what if she only had one batch of death caps which she had spent months collecting and dehydrating and storing and planning and had used them all in the duxelle before he said he wasn't coming. She would have had to wait until the next year to get more, and by that time, Simon would have divorced her IMO. I still think she was planning on giving him Death Caps on that day, perhaps in the afternoon when she thought he would return. IMO
 
  • #802
I disagree. Hypothetically what if she only had one batch of death caps which she had spent months collecting and dehydrating and storing and planning and had used them all in the duxelle before he said he wasn't coming. She would have had to wait until the next year to get more, and by that time, Simon would have divorced her IMO. I still think she was planning on giving him Death Caps on that day, perhaps in the afternoon when she thought he would return. IMO
I believe this is why she got so snippy at him when he declined the invitation. I do feel sorry for him, his, and I suspect Ian's, survivor's guilt will be terrible.
 
  • #803
Thanks for this detailed reply. I wouldn't want people to make the mistake that I'm wedded to this idea, I'm just trying to make the best of the available evidence and it is a working theory based on if she is guilty, I certainly don't claim to know all the answers. A lot of people just seem to say 'yeh she wanted them all dead' without considering the implications of this opinion.

In my theory, she didn't have a detailed plan of how to use the Deathcaps, and didn't measure them out to calculate a dose etc. She only had a vague idea of how poisonous they were, and an opportunity presented itself where she was able to get some; she wasn't seeking them out. A lot is made of the measuring of the DC, but in the trial we have seen her posting to her friends about how much she was enjoying the dehydrating process and how much it had reduced them by. She didn't only weigh and photograph the DC mushrooms. Does it really make more sense that she's plotting a detailed murder but posting all this information to her friends?

As for what she hoped would happen, she was expecting for them to get sick and to then be able to exploit this situation by either being part of a shared tragedy, or by being able to care for them afterwards. We know already that she was the sort of person who would lie about having cancer for personal gain; that is an extreme situation. This is how she benefits from this situation. She's a woman with cancer who is running around after these people who have gotten mysteriously sick. Again, it makes no sense that people wouldn't know she had cancer, they could have text Simon straight after the meal.

Where she went wrong was simple: she didn't realise how much dehydrating would concentrate the dose and not only how much it would accelerate the symptoms but also how lethal it would be. As I've pointed out, she isn't necessarily thorough like everybody claims she is. This also explains her subsequent panicked hiding of evidence instead of a much better planned cover up.

Now my turn to turn the tables on your presumed account of guilt! I seem to hear a lot of replies about how murder isn't logical, and how people often don't plan for the aftermath but to me these seem like a bit of a cop out answer that is asserted rather than explained. Yes, I can imagine this is the case for a crime of passion or an opportunistic murder.

In this theory, Erin has planned a mass murder over the course of a couple of months. She has sought out DC mushrooms, carefully measured out a lethal dose, created a pretense for the meal and then committed the murder only to not consider what would happen next? On top of this, we actually know that she must have considered what happened next because she already started lying about being sick herself before anybody went to hospital.

What did Erin seek to gain from murdering these 4 people, considering that most people think she also wanted to kill Simon?

Also, how did she get it so wrong? How did she not consider that 3 people dying (with the intention of 5) at a meal she'd hosted would have serious negative consequences for her and her family? Even if they didn't catch the DC, of course she would be suspected, how did she miss this as a true crime fan?

Did she really think that a bit of gastro would absolve her of any suspicion when everybody else got seriously ill or died?

Again, I'm only considering likelihoods. We can't discount that she murdered for the thrill of it, or was filled with such hatred that she wanted them dead no matter the consequence, or was so arrogant she thought everybody would believe her story. It just doesn't seem very likely based on what we know to be the case.

How do you explain why she didn't die or end up in ICU from eating the same food?

The cap of a typical Amanita phalloides mushroom may measure about 10cm across, Taylor says. “Half of that would be toxic, probably enough to kill a person. That might be, once it’s cooked down, a mouthful – maybe two or three mouthfuls of actual mushroom … at absolute most.”

 
  • #804
I believe this is why she got so snippy at him when he declined the invitation. I do feel sorry for him, his, and I suspect Ian's, survivor's guilt will be terrible.

Keep in mind that he's survived 3 previous attempts, that she was initially charged with.
 
  • #805
Keep in mind that he's survived 3 previous attempts, that she was initially charged with.
True, although he nearly died on the last attempt.

She most likely didn't use Death Caps on him back then, but possibly Deadly Nightshade.
 
  • #806
Good question. Could be for any reason but I suppose the word abruptly is implying fired / walked off the job / left in some form of dispute or at least quit without having given advance notice, could be for any reason, family emergency, medical situation etc.

JMO

She left due to a problem. I can't say the reasons why at this time as it would breach sub-judice.
 
  • #807
I find it very hard to believe that EP is so naive about DCs and accidentally putting it in the meal. She’d powdered mushrooms in her childrens’ food for goodness’ sake! of course we’ll see what the jury says about her innocence or guilt. but I wouldn’t say this was an accident if she is guilty
Exactly. Nothing about Erin strikes me as naïve at all. All her actions- the manner she invited everyone to the lunch, ensured his aunt/uncle were present in order to demonstrate to Simon the 'gravity' of the situation, the story/ies she concocted....are all calculated. This isn't a naïve woman who has made a grave mistake IMO. I agree with others here, I think some of the sloppiness is attributed to the fact she didn't factor in for many scenarios post meal. If in fact she was responsible for Simon's three previous poisonings, why wouldn't you be a little sloppy? She received no repercussions for three previous attempts, wouldn't you think of yourself as almost invincible at this stage?
MOO
 
  • #808
I agree that if she is guilty as accused, she would have planned for the aftermath. But was so certain (being NPD) that she didn't have a plan B.

What's your view on this theory? I've outlined it in detail before so will just summarise here:

  1. Based on available information online the plan was that ALL present would go down at varying times with varying severity of "gastro", that they all caught off each other at the meal.
  2. Note* gastro as an infectious illness (stomach bug), not food poisoning.
  3. Different towns, different doctors, no reason for medical persons to suspect foul play.
  4. Small towns, more know (of) each other, all unthinkable to the average person... no solid suspicion.
  5. NO investigations.
That's just in brief, and all if the accused is guilty.
If she had poisoned Simon before, her experience was that she got away with it. Clearly she's the smartest person in the room and no one can touch her.

And then she walked into the ER and they already knew it happened at her lunch and what she used, and she panicked because this isn't how it was supposed to go down at all.
 
  • #809
I know that you can't base everything on body language and personally I find statement analysis quite often more accurate, but notice in this clip of Erin outside her house before she was arrested, that every time she says what good people Gail and Don were, that she shakes her head in a no motion as she says it?

 
  • #810
She wouldn’t have had the opportunity to research Enrich clinic because she likely came up with this lie only recently and after she was already locked up. Inmates do not get internet access where they are free to roam the web and google things as they wish. Also, a lawyer is not allowed to collude with their client, so I highly doubt she would have asked Colin Mandy to search this for her, and I don’t think he would have risked his license to help EP.
Her appointment was made months before the lunch.


Mandy has taken Patterson to phone records included in the brief of evidence that he says show that Patterson contacted the Enrich Clinic on April 19, 2023, and May 31, 2023.

 
  • #811
That video makes my skin crawl...
 
  • #812
I know that you can't base everything on body language and personally I find statement analysis quite often more accurate, but notice in this clip of Erin outside her house before she was arrested, that every time she says what good people Gail and Don were, that she shakes her head in a no motion as she says it?

Beware the crocodile tears...
 
  • #813
That video makes my skin crawl...
It still cracks me up how many times she wiped away no tears and then looked at her hands, which showed confirmation of no tears... 😏
 
  • #814
It still cracks me up how many times she wiped away no tears and then looked at her hands, which showed confirmation of no tears... 😏

The most alarming thing to me in this video is the emotions (or attempt at showing them) at all. She wasn't like this at all. Sure, it was a very intense unusual situation, but there are no genuine emotions. When she walks around the side of the car she even does the chest heave of deep guttural crying, but it is fake. There are no tears. IMO
 
  • #815
But Simon didn't attend, so her plan for him attending is irrelevant. She could simply have not mentioned about the cancer once he changed his mind, but she still did and they could still have told him (as well as multiple others) straight away about the cancer.

As I've explained, we know this because we've spent weeks talking about it, there is nothing to suggest Erin actually researched it. It literally says 10-30% of people will die, it says nothing about dosages unless you go and actively look that information up. People seem to think that she only measured the DC mushrooms as if she could only have been doing it to calculate dosages. She was literally posting pictures to her friends with her dehydrating a variety of mushrooms and getting giddy about how much they reduce in weight. There is actually no reason to doubt that this is why she was weighing them.

Before we hear the reply of 'of course she would have researched it' consider that she didn't research whether Enrich did gastric-band surgery. This is despite having had months to do so and it being absolutely crucial to her defens
Her appointment was made months before the lunch.


Mandy has taken Patterson to phone records included in the brief of evidence that he says show that Patterson contacted the Enrich Clinic on April 19, 2023, and May 31, 2023.

Yes, the appointment was made months before the lunch with Dr Priscilla Auyeng at Enrich Clinic who is an allergist (not a doctor who deals with any sort of weight loss surgery, including liposuction).

My post referenced when EP likely decided to use this appointment as part of her “story” to justify the cancer lie she told. IMO, this likely happened after she was locked up and was able to view the evidence that the prosecution had against her. It was at this point that she likely decided she needed to fabricate this story to explain the evidence. IMO.
 
  • #816
The most alarming thing to me in this video is the emotions (or attempt at showing them) at all. She wasn't like this at all. Sure, it was a very intense unusual situation, but there are no genuine emotions. When she walks around the side of the car she even does the chest heave of deep guttural crying, but it is fake. There are no tears. IMO
The whole thing is just bizarre. I think most of us who watched that would question the authenticity of her reactions. I don't even understand why she would speak to the media? Why not just shoo them away and walk into your home? Was it to appear helpful, etc?
 
  • #817
Was it to appear helpful, etc?
Just like her helpful written statement to the police. And her helpful interactions with Food Safety Victoria. imo
 
  • #818
Thanks for this detailed reply. I wouldn't want people to make the mistake that I'm wedded to this idea, I'm just trying to make the best of the available evidence and it is a working theory based on if she is guilty, I certainly don't claim to know all the answers. A lot of people just seem to say 'yeh she wanted them all dead' without considering the implications of this opinion.

In my theory, she didn't have a detailed plan of how to use the Deathcaps, and didn't measure them out to calculate a dose etc. She only had a vague idea of how poisonous they were, and an opportunity presented itself where she was able to get some; she wasn't seeking them out. A lot is made of the measuring of the DC, but in the trial we have seen her posting to her friends about how much she was enjoying the dehydrating process and how much it had reduced them by. She didn't only weigh and photograph the DC mushrooms. Does it really make more sense that she's plotting a detailed murder but posting all this information to her friends?

As for what she hoped would happen, she was expecting for them to get sick and to then be able to exploit this situation by either being part of a shared tragedy, or by being able to care for them afterwards. We know already that she was the sort of person who would lie about having cancer for personal gain; that is an extreme situation. This is how she benefits from this situation. She's a woman with cancer who is running around after these people who have gotten mysteriously sick. Again, it makes no sense that people wouldn't know she had cancer, they could have text Simon straight after the meal.

Where she went wrong was simple: she didn't realise how much dehydrating would concentrate the dose and not only how much it would accelerate the symptoms but also how lethal it would be. As I've pointed out, she isn't necessarily thorough like everybody claims she is. This also explains her subsequent panicked hiding of evidence instead of a much better planned cover up.

Now my turn to turn the tables on your presumed account of guilt! I seem to hear a lot of replies about how murder isn't logical, and how people often don't plan for the aftermath but to me these seem like a bit of a cop out answer that is asserted rather than explained. Yes, I can imagine this is the case for a crime of passion or an opportunistic murder.

In this theory, Erin has planned a mass murder over the course of a couple of months. She has sought out DC mushrooms, carefully measured out a lethal dose, created a pretense for the meal and then committed the murder only to not consider what would happen next? On top of this, we actually know that she must have considered what happened next because she already started lying about being sick herself before anybody went to hospital.

What did Erin seek to gain from murdering these 4 people, considering that most people think she also wanted to kill Simon?

Also, how did she get it so wrong? How did she not consider that 3 people dying (with the intention of 5) at a meal she'd hosted would have serious negative consequences for her and her family? Even if they didn't catch the DC, of course she would be suspected, how did she miss this as a true crime fan?

Did she really think that a bit of gastro would absolve her of any suspicion when everybody else got seriously ill or died?

Again, I'm only considering likelihoods. We can't discount that she murdered for the thrill of it, or was filled with such hatred that she wanted them dead no matter the consequence, or was so arrogant she thought everybody would believe her story. It just doesn't seem very likely based on what we know to be the case.

I think 1) she did measure out the DC mushrooms because she has a photo of them in the scale, and 2) she did intend to give Simon a BW with the deathcaps. The one BW they found in the garbage that had the meat removed still was found to have traces of DC.
 
  • #819
I disagree. Hypothetically what if she only had one batch of death caps which she had spent months collecting and dehydrating and storing and planning and had used them all in the duxelle before he said he wasn't coming. She would have had to wait until the next year to get more, and by that time, Simon would have divorced her IMO. I still think she was planning on giving him Death Caps on that day, perhaps in the afternoon when she thought he would return. IMO
I think she was still hoping he'd show up, probably out of the guilt she tried to lay on him in the texts. But yes, I think she'd have taken any chance to feed him that BW.
 
  • #820
Who ate 1.5 servings?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
119
Guests online
2,746
Total visitors
2,865

Forum statistics

Threads
632,151
Messages
18,622,696
Members
243,034
Latest member
RepresentingTheLBC
Back
Top