Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

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  • #1,141
I don't believe so. In fact about the only time I recall perjury being prosecuted is in Royal Commissions where Counsel Assisting usually has evidence to prove that a witness is lying. (The street saying with RC's is that they don't ask questions unless they already have the answers.)

I gather that perjury cases in VIC are rare, but here's one in 2022:

Makaela Bacon, you have pleaded guilty to five charges of perjury contrary to s 314(1)of the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic).

Haha. My Father was a RC Investigator through the 90's in WA. Investigator is the term for all supporting council except the supporting Barristers to the QC Chair of the RC.

I used to have to type his dictation until he leaned how to touch type!

The problem with RC's is they can only present findings and recommendations to the Governor (if a State RC), and then to Parliament, who are under no obligation to act on any of the findings or recommendations... But I digress...

Yes, they know everything before they ask - take it from me, who was cross examined on everything from "borrowing" Mums car, to not replacing the toilet roll.
 
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  • #1,142
  • #1,143
I'm not familiar with that term, myself.

Lawyers assisting the royal commission (called ‘counsel assisting’)

During a royal commission hearing, counsel assisting will ask you questions about the information in your statement.


I double checked and corrected it. It's what he would use informally as he associated "Investigator" with police. His title was Investigator, feeding Council Assisting, who supported the QC Chair.
 
  • #1,144
She clamed to have thousands of books, I agree it would be super interesting to find out.
There is crime book entitled Death Cap by June Thomson published in 1977.
 
  • #1,145
There is crime book entitled Death Cap by June Thomson published in 1977.

"A village shopkeeper, Mrs. King, is killed by a poisoned mushroom. [Inspector] Rudd is very graphic about what happens to a person who is poisoned in that manner, and it isn't pretty, but it is still a great idea for a murder." --Goodreads.

Hmmm.
 
  • #1,146
Will they ever release any of the evidence in this case, like photos and videos?
 
  • #1,147
That she sought out death cap mushrooms and secreted "lethal doses" of the mushrooms inside the individually parcelled beef Wellingtons, thereby ensuring she did not consume a dangerous lunch.

The first time I ever learned of this case and heard that she made individual beef wellingtons, I thought case closed.
 
  • #1,148
BBM. I believe a number of us here thought Rogers deliberately erred with the date to get EP to correct her and simultaneously show how good her memory was. Kudos to Rogers for this entire summation.
100% And Erin walked straight into it.
 
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  • #1,150
<modsnip - no names for children, please>

So her cancer story/secret was very safe with

I assume this moderator doesnt follow the royals! 😆

My post referred to Kate and William keeping her cancer diagnosis extremely private until they could tell their children. (Princess Kate and Prince William.)

Ive asked if I can edit it to put my comment back in, but for now I am finding it most amusing!
 
  • #1,151
Sorry if this has been discussed before but I understand EP was interested in Crime novels.

There are a number that involve mushroom poisoning including at least 3 by Agatha Christie.

Were any of these books in her collection that Police took or in the unpacked lot she used as an excuse for them having found no books on mushroom foraging?

I wouldn’t be surprised if one is lurking in her collection.
It’s funny you mentioned that! I had a long drive the other day and was listening to an cozy mystery audiobook when suddenly, there was a subplot about someone being poisoned with death caps at a meal where everyone was served individual portions of a quiche or something! It was published in 2013 and did make me wonder if she might have read it and filed the idea away for later… (It was called A Pagan Spring by GM Malliet)
 
  • #1,152
I've heard that after today Erin Patterson has sacked her defence.

She's recruited Sir Bob Massingbird...
 
  • #1,153
<modsnip - no names for children, please>

So her cancer story/secret was very safe with them.
(In my own defence! I didn't and wouldn't use the children's names.)
 
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  • #1,154
I am up early this morning. I have to wait four hours before Dr Rogers’ closing statements. This is torture!
 
  • #1,155
You'll have to go outside!
Be strong @MrJ you can do this! 😄
 
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  • #1,156
I'm late to the party, but just wow.

When you see it laid out so clearly and methodically, it really paints a picture. They've done a fantastic job and I look forward to hearing the rest tomorrow.

Obviously, we need to listen to the defence but it'd hard to imagine what they can really do. They're lucky they get the final say, but they've got an absolute mountain to climb.
 
  • #1,157
It's odd that her POA/friend didn't testify. She had no Defense witnesses except herself. Very telling.
Do you believe that EP's FB friends provided all evidence available, or held back?
I was thinking before the prosecution rested that it might be a tactic to call no witnesses. A sort of subtle way of saying the prosecution hadn't proved it and they were confident they didn't need witnesses.

Then EP took the stand... surely her own choice. I'd been quite impressed with Colin Mandy prior to this and can't imagine he thought it a good idea.
 
  • #1,158
I am up early this morning. I have to wait four hours before Dr Rogers’ closing statements. This is torture!
I'm up early to work. Hoping I can have sneaky check in during the day
 
  • #1,159
I was thinking before the prosecution rested that it might be a tactic to call no witnesses. A sort of subtle way of saying the prosecution hadn't proved it and they were confident they didn't need witnesses.

Then EP took the stand... surely her own choice. I'd been quite impressed with Colin Mandy prior to this and can't imagine he thought it a good idea.
Dr Rogers strategy of not allowing EP to actually speak was brilliant - asking agree/disagree or correct/incorrect shut Erin down completely and prevented her from doing word salad, or befuddling rambling circular non-answers.

IMO Erin has a communication strategy she uses in regular life to explain away various and sundry misdeeds and lies .. and Erin’s strategy was to use it in court to bewitch the jurors into having doubts.

Kudos to Dr Rogers.
 
  • #1,160

'Not even a forensic toxicologist could do that in a lab': Crown disputes children's meals​


Dr Rogers said the “first time we see any effort made” by Erin to have her children medically assessed was hours after she’d first been warned of the danger they might have ingested toxic mushrooms.
Dr Rogers said the “perfectly reasonable explanation” for why she hadn’t rushed her children to hospital was because she knew they hadn’t eaten death cap mushrooms.
“The evidence strongly suggests that if the children had eaten leftover meat from the poisoned beef wellington, they too would have at least experienced some symptoms,” she said.
The jury heard the meat part of the leftovers retrieved from the bin at Erin’s home tested positive for death cap toxins.
Dr Rogers said this was evidence that the amatoxins had penetrated, or remained, on the cooked meat.
“The accused attempted to explain why the children weren’t sick by repeatedly saying she’d scraped the mushrooms off, however scientific evidence suggest simply scraping it away would not have been enough to remove the toxins,” she said.
Dr Rogers told the jury to reject explanations from the defence that the mushrooms paste simply “couldn’t be separated” from the meat that was tested at the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine.
“It is impossible, we suggest to you, that the accused could have served up a piece of leftover steak with all of the mushroom paste removed,” she said.
“Not even a forensic toxicologist managed to do that in a lab.”

“The accused attempted to explain why the children weren’t sick by repeatedly saying she’d scraped the mushrooms off, however scientific evidence suggest simply scraping it away would not have been enough to remove the toxins,” she said.

YAY---I am so glad he pointed that^^^ out.
 
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