Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[Deleted member 363451]

Not Trying to be a Smart Aleck, but....

@Qwertzy2008 bbm​

In the context of a private (non-commercial, non-restaurant) meal hosted at home of a relative by marriage, if a guest who wants/expects to "make an informed choice" about whether "to consume foraged mushrooms, should that guest explicitly ask the host(ess) whether mushrooms were ”foraged.” ??? IDK.

And if host(ess) says
--- Yes, mushrooms from XYZ Market were labelled as “foraged” then…???
--- Yes, mushrooms from XYZ Market were labelled as “grown at Diddly Squat Farm,” owned by Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear/BBC,* then …???
Or
--- Yes, I foraged these mushrooms myself, then…???
then guest says, Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to have meal w. someone else??

If "people would feel uncomfortable eating mushrooms foraged by others" should they ask host(ess) whether mushrooms were "foraged"? IDK.

May depend on specific circumstances. imo.

If Erin wasn't known by her husband or relatives to forage, why would they even ask her that question? Simon told the medical staff that he hadn't known Erin to forage. The onus is on the forager to disclose it to her guests, not the guests.

 

[mamamama9873]

Not Trying to be a Smart Aleck, but....

@Qwertzy2008 bbm​

In the context of a private (non-commercial, non-restaurant) meal hosted at home of a relative by marriage, if a guest who wants/expects to "make an informed choice" about whether "to consume foraged mushrooms, should that guest explicitly ask the host(ess) whether mushrooms were ”foraged.” ??? IDK.

And if host(ess) says
--- Yes, mushrooms from XYZ Market were labelled as “foraged” then…???
--- Yes, mushrooms from XYZ Market were labelled as “grown at Diddly Squat Farm,” owned by Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear/BBC,* then …???
Or
--- Yes, I foraged these mushrooms myself, then…???
then guest says, Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to have meal w. someone else??

If "people would feel uncomfortable eating mushrooms foraged by others" should they ask host(ess) whether mushrooms were "foraged"? IDK.

May depend on specific circumstances. imo.

___________________________________________
* Googled
"Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear BBC"

A host has duty of care and must declare high risk ingredients like foraged mushrooms IMO. I would 100% expect this as a meal guest. The onus is on the host, not the guests.

 

[Deleted member 194006]

Not Trying to be a Smart Aleck, but....

@Qwertzy2008 bbm​

In the context of a private (non-commercial, non-restaurant) meal hosted at home of a relative by marriage, if a guest who wants/expects to "make an informed choice" about whether "to consume foraged mushrooms, should that guest explicitly ask the host(ess) whether mushrooms were ”foraged.” ??? IDK.

And if host(ess) says
--- Yes, mushrooms from XYZ Market were labelled as “foraged” then…???
--- Yes, mushrooms from XYZ Market were labelled as “grown at Diddly Squat Farm,” owned by Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear/BBC,* then …???
Or
--- Yes, I foraged these mushrooms myself, then…???
then guest says, Sorry, I forgot I was supposed to have meal w. someone else??

If "people would feel uncomfortable eating mushrooms foraged by others" should they ask host(ess) whether mushrooms were "foraged"? IDK.

May depend on specific circumstances. imo.

___________________________________________
* Googled
"Jeremy Clarkson/Top Gear BBC"

The onus is on the chef/cook to disclose this. It’s not usual for foraged mushrooms to be included in a meal, and as foraged mushrooms pose an element of risk, this should be shared with the guest. As the majority of mushrooms used at home are store bought, it would be quite ridiculous for a guest to have to ask at every meal whether the mushrooms are foraged. All IMO.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The onus is on the chef/cook to disclose this. It’s not usual for foraged mushrooms to be included in a meal, and as foraged mushrooms pose an element of risk, this should be shared with the guest. As the majority of mushrooms used at home are store bought, it would be quite ridiculous for a guest to have to ask at every meal whether the mushrooms are foraged. All IMO.

Yes, you aren't automatically going to think that the host used stinking, smelly foraged mushrooms that she'd dried in a food dehydrator and then added to bought, fresh mushrooms...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The onus is on the chef/cook to disclose this. It’s not usual for foraged mushrooms to be included in a meal, and as foraged mushrooms pose an element of risk, this should be shared with the guest. As the majority of mushrooms used at home are store bought, it would be quite ridiculous for a guest to have to ask at every meal whether the mushrooms are foraged. All IMO.

Imagine if a restaurant did this? What sort of lawsuit would they have received by now?

 

[Monstradamus]

Yes, you aren't automatically going to think that the host used stinking, smelly foraged mushrooms that she'd dried in a food dehydrator and then added to bought, fresh mushrooms...

Oh, she is quite the food connoisseur, isn't she? Quite a step up from nuggets and fries, imo.

 

[Monstradamus]

Where are the plates and cutlery that were used that fateful day? Where is the Tupperware container containing the "Asian mushrooms" and DC's? Was there a mortar and pestle used to powder the dehydrated mushrooms, or did she use her Thermomix? If it was all a terrible accident, wouldn't these items have been found? Extremely suspicious that none of these items have been located.
MOO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Where are the plates and cutlery that were used that fateful day? Where is the Tupperware container containing the "Asian mushrooms" and DC's? Was there a mortar and pestle used to powder the dehydrated mushrooms, or did she use her Thermomix? If it was all a terrible accident, wouldn't these items have been found? Extremely suspicious that none of these items have been located.
MOO

And where's Erin's phone (A), the phone that she primary used, whilst we are at it?

 

[Monstradamus]

And where's Erin's phone (A), the phone that she primary used, whilst we are at it?

Indeed. There must have been a lot of incriminating evidence on there for the sim to be allegedly removed (whilst police were searching the house), and the phone itself never to be seen again. It disappeared sometime between the August police search and the November police search) and not into a skip bin, imo.

 

[Yh5r]

Where are the plates and cutlery that were used that fateful day? Where is the Tupperware container containing the "Asian mushrooms" and DC's? Was there a mortar and pestle used to powder the dehydrated mushrooms, or did she use her Thermomix? If it was all a terrible accident, wouldn't these items have been found? Extremely suspicious that none of these items have been located.
MOO

That's such a good point with the missing tupperware container. It didn't sound like she used the mystery mushroom mix in the tupperware container all up. So if innocent ,surely that's the first thing the lunch host would offer health authorities/ police.
Whichever way you twist this case, there can only be one conclusion IMO

 

[MrJ]

Mandy: don't judge based on what you hypothetically may have done or what a person should do
Also Mandy: If my client was guilty.....

 

[BreakingNews]

DBM

 

[Deleted member 363451]

That's such a good point with the missing tupperware container. It didn't sound like she used the mystery mushroom mix in the tupperware container all up. So if innocent ,surely that's the first thing the lunch host would offer health authorities/ police.
Whichever way you twist this case, there can only be one conclusion IMO

No-one has made mention of the Tupperware container.

 

[Monstradamus]

No-one has made mention of the Tupperware container.

Only EP. And only she knows what happened to it, imo.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

No-one has made mention of the Tupperware container.

Was there even a Tupperware container? I wonder if she stored the mushrooms in a zip lock bag and burnt it afterwards, if guilty of course.

 

[Yh5r]

Was there even a Tupperware container? I wonder if she stored the mushrooms in a zip lock bag and burnt it afterwards, if guilty of course.

If we are to believe her testimony, there was a tupperware container. Question is - where was it after the lunch?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Was there even a Tupperware container? I wonder if she stored the mushrooms in a zip lock bag and burnt it afterwards, if guilty of course.

Quite possibly. She probably said they were put in a Tupperware container to make it sound more friendly.

 

[Deleted member 194006]

Was there even a Tupperware container? I wonder if she stored the mushrooms in a zip lock bag and burnt it afterwards, if guilty of course.

This is actually really interesting, and you’ve also made me think of something else.

Stay with me here:

The RecipeTin Beef Wellington recipe calls for 700g of mushrooms. Erin stated that she tasted the duxelle after cooking it all down and it tasted bland. So we can safely assume that, according to her story, the duxelle already contained 700g of mushrooms.

What we know about the deathcaps from the pictures on the scale is that she had roughly 500g of hydrated death caps in total. Plus, more mushrooms from an Asian grocer (say 200-500g as an educated guess). That means Erin had a total of 700g-1kg of extra mushrooms comprised of the deathcaps and Asian mushrooms.

I highly doubt that Erin added an extra 700g - 1kg of mushrooms into an already made duxelle. This means… THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MUSHROOMS LEFT OVER.

Where are they?

<modsnip: Sub judice>

 

[Way2Invested]

Thinking about the "if innocent, she should have disclosed using foraged mushrooms to her guests" argument, if Erin's version of events is to be believed, at the time of the lunch she had no idea she had inadvertently included foraged mushrooms. (I don't believe her version of events.)
As far as I can tell, nobody is suggesting she intended to use non-poisonous foraged mushrooms in the meal - the prosecution says she deliberately added death caps, her defence claims she included dried Asian mushrooms which just happened to have home-dehydrated foraged mushrooms mixed in with them (that Erin had completely forgotten about) that just happened to be death caps.
I suspect that's why they stuck with the Asian mushroom story: to reduce culpability.

 

[Monstradamus]

This is actually really interesting, and you’ve also made me think of something else.

Stay with me here:

The RecipeTin Beef Wellington recipe calls for 700g of mushrooms. Erin stated that she tasted the duxelle after cooking it all down and it tasted bland. So we can safely assume that, according to her story, the duxelle already contained 700g of mushrooms.

What we know about the deathcaps from the pictures on the scale is that she had roughly 500g of hydrated death caps in total. Plus, more mushrooms from an Asian grocer (say 200-500g as an educated guess). That means Erin had a total of 700g-1kg of extra mushrooms comprised of the deathcaps and Asian mushrooms.

I highly doubt that Erin added an extra 700g - 1kg of mushrooms into an already made duxelle. This means… THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MUSHROOMS LEFT OVER.

Where are they?

<modsnip: Sub judice>

I believe she testified that she herself ate 1kg of mushrooms between her earlier shopping trip and the day of the lunch.