Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[MsMarple]

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 34 – as it happened

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www.theguardian.com

1m ago10.48 AEST
Mandy says the jury must engage their heads and not their heart to intellectually examine the evidence.

“It doesn’t matter what you would have done in a situation,”

Mandy says it is impossible for jurors to know how they would behave in a situation.”

Mandy says Patterson has acknowledged she made lies.

“She’s not on trial for being a liar,” he says.

He says nothing Patterson did afterwards changes what her intention was when she served the beef wellington meal.

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3m ago10.47 AEST
Colin Mandy SC says the prosecution has invited the jury to “think about what you would do in the situation if this was really a horrible accident”.

Mandy says the prosecution was inviting the jury to engage in an activity that could be seductive but is flawed because it is based on hindsight.

“What hindsight reasoning does, in a way, is to shift the burden of proof on to the defence,” he says.

“It’s the prosecution’s job to prove what the accused actually did and not to engage in a hypothetical comparison of what you or someone else might do in the same situation.”

Mandy says the prosecution should be relying on the evidence.

He says when you know the outcome of a situation and reflect on it “things might become clear.”

Things seem obvious in retrospect but that’s not the right way of approaching it.

 

[lazymaiden07]

Prosecution's arguments about leftovers don't hold up, defence says​

Mr Mandy asks the jury why Ms Patterson would have put her poisoned leftovers into the bin at all, or have told police where they were.

He expresses confusion at the prosecution's explanations for these questions, taking a shot at the argument laid out by Nanette Rogers SC.

"I might be doing the argument of the prosecution an injustice, maybe it was more coherent than that," he says.

"The simpler explanation is much more likely: she fed the children the meat with the mushrooms scraped off, she threw out the rest."

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Can we please talk about the orange cake that one of the deceased brought to the lunch? I'm sure that we heard the children (son, son's friend and daughter I believe) returned from the movies in the afternoon, and the son mentioned having some cake. I'm not sure if the friend or daughter did too. Am I recalling correctly?

I'm also recalling Erin said she binged on the remainder of the cake, around 2-3 slices from memory. I'm assuming the supposition is that this happened AFTER the son had a slice? Do we have any clarity on the leftover cake? Leftovers in the true sense of the word - left-over-from-the-lunch-and-eaten-at-some-point-afterwards?

 

[lazymaiden07]

I think it does matter if she’s a liar. She’s been caught in quite a few.

I agree? And to say it doesnt matter what you would have done in that situation? Parts of the law are based on what a reasonable person would be expected to do? Which would be to seek medical care for yourself and your children.
I feel like he's really clutching at straws here.

 

[lazymaiden07]

Defence addresses conflicting testimony​

Mr Mandy takes the jury back to comments made by Tanya Patterson, the sister-in-law of Erin Patterson.

He reads an exchange where Erin says that Tanya was wrong about her account of events.

Mr Mandy revisits his cross-examination of Tanya where she conceded she could be misremembering events following the lunch.

 

[MrJ]

Mr Mandy says Ms Patterson is not on trial for being a liar or being morally incorrect, and those things had no place in the trial.

That is just crazy. She might not be on trial for lying but the lying is actually really critical evidence

 

[lazymaiden07]

Defence begins giving their chronology of events​

Mr Mandy launches into a full timeline of the lead up to the lunch, as the defence sees it.

He begin's by describing his client as a loving mother to her children.

Mr Mandy emphasises the strong relationship Erin Patterson had with her in-laws Don and Gail.

He recaps the early years of Erin's marriage to Simon Patterson, and their time spent living in Western Australia.

 

[MsMarple]

Prosecution's arguments about leftovers don't hold up, defence says​

Mr Mandy asks the jury why Ms Patterson would have put her poisoned leftovers into the bin at all, or have told police where they were.

He expresses confusion at the prosecution's explanations for these questions, taking a shot at the argument laid out by Nanette Rogers SC.

"I might be doing the argument of the prosecution an injustice, maybe it was more coherent than that," he says.

"The simpler explanation is much more likely: she fed the children the meat with the mushrooms scraped off, she threw out the rest."

"The simpler explanation is much more likely: she fed the children the meat with the mushrooms scraped off, she threw out the rest."

What?? Is he saying that scraping the poisonous mushrooms off the meat makes it safe to eat?

 

[lazymaiden07]

Simon Patterson's cross-examination revisited​

Mr Mandy takes the jury back to his cross-examination of Erin Patterson's estranged husband, Simon.

During his testimony, Mr Mandy had asked Simon a barrage of questions relating to how well Erin got on with his parents, and how close she was in particular with Don.

Simon told the court that he believed Erin had loved his parents, and that for quite some time they had formed part of her support network.

 

[Walk A Mile]

NPD would have a motive to remove the "interference" of these people from how she really wanted to live her life... and that absolutely included removing pastor and wife.

IMO

The disordered thought and decision-making process that leads to someone actually poisoning people defies logic. No reasonable motive can be identified because reason wasn't a guest at the table.

IMO the only motive was to achieve the outcome. The goal was to hurt and punish for whatever perceived slight the ego believed justified it.

 

[Jake18]

He says that her lies and actions did not change her intentions at the time of serving the meal.

So - she’s a lying liar who lies but her intentions were pure. Source: trust me bro

 

[MrJ]

Key Event
4m ago
Erin was interested in foraging wild mushrooms, defence says
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

The defence addresses the SD card found in Erin's home which had photos of wild mushrooms on it.

Mr Mandy says it is a popular activity, referencing the testimony of mycologist Tom May who said foraging grew in popularity during COVID-19.

He says Erin became interested during the same period.

"That's Erin's evidence too. It's not made up, it's not fabricated, it's the evidence," he says.

The jury is directed by Mr Mandy to look the photos, pointing out that Erin's children feature in many of the photos.

"This is evidence and confirmation that Erin Patterson had an interest in mushrooms at exactly the same time that Dr Tom May says that [foraging was] becoming popular," he says.

He says Erin's son's police interview was consistent with the images from the SD card and Dr May's testimony about its popularity.

 

[MsMarple]

3m ago21.07 EDT
Don and Gail Patterson an important part of Erin’s support network, defence says

Mandy says his client is a loving mother to her children.

Patterson told the jury when Don and Gail visited her and Simon in Western Australia they provided support when the couple’s first child was born, the court hears.

The jury has heard evidence that Patterson wanted to move back to Victoria so the family could be closer to Simon’s parents for support, Mandy says.

He points to Simon’s evidence that Don and Gail were an important part of Patterson’s support network. He points to Simon testifying that Patterson was particularly close to Don as they shared an interest in books and the world.

He says Patterson and Simon separated about seven years prior to the lunch.

“If there were the occasional disagreements … they were resolved really smoothly and respectfully,” he says.

That’s a significant thing for people who are separated.

It says a lot about the relationship.

He reminds the jury that there were no lawyers involved in Erin and Simon Patterson’s separation in 2015.

Mandy says the jury should remember the pair’s “spat” in December over child support payments was in the context of more than seven years of a relationship post-separation.

 

[MrJ]

1m ago
Defence urges jury to consider context of foraging
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy says context is important, and that Erin Patterson's picking of mushrooms is only a big deal now due to the nature of the trial.

He implies that her picking mushrooms on a walk would have been simply "incidental", and suggests that she would have done it "a handful of times" over the course of years.

Mr Mandy refers to evidence that Erin loved mushrooms, referencing testimony from her online friends that confirmed it.

"Erin loved mushrooms. Not only the wild ones, also eating them ... she told people that, she believed that they were full of nutrition and flavour and she used them in cooking," he says.

But he says despite her love for fungi, his client was not a routine forager.

"She was not suggesting to you that she was out there in the forest every day, scrambling around looking for mushrooms," he says.

 

[lazymaiden07]

The disordered thought and decision-making process that leads to someone actually poisoning people defies logic. No reasonable motive can be identified because reason wasn't a guest at the table.

IMO the only motive was to achieve the outcome. The goal was to hurt and punish for whatever perceived slight the ego believed justified it.

Exactly! Mandy's asking us to consider 'why on earth a person would do this', as if EP was just your average joe in the neighbourhood. This is not someone who's actions can be based on reason, logic or sound judgement. That all goes out the window in this case. As Dr Rogers said, you only can analyse the facts and evidence presented.

 

[lazymaiden07]

Erin and Simon had strong relationship, defence says​

Erin and Simon Patterson continued to have an amicable relationship even after their separation, Mr Mandy says.

"No lawyers involved in the formal separation process, split everything down the middle, pretty remarkable," he says.

"It says a lot about the relationship."

He says that although the trial had drilled down into a conflict the couple had in December 2022, it was a brief period in a years-long relationship that had remained strong.

 

[Megnut]

Defence addresses conflicting testimony​

Mr Mandy takes the jury back to comments made by Tanya Patterson, the sister-in-law of Erin Patterson.

He reads an exchange where Erin says that Tanya was wrong about her account of events.

Mr Mandy revisits his cross-examination of Tanya where she conceded she could be misremembering events following the lunch.

Mr Mandy says Ms Patterson is not on trial for being a liar or being morally incorrect, and those things had no place in the trial.

That is just crazy. She might not be on trial for lying but the lying is actually really critical evidence

Erin just misremembers things but we can excuse her lying, because reasons. And we shouldn't trust any of the witnesses either.

What's that leave? Everyone should just go home?

SMH

JMO

 

[lazymaiden07]

Erin was interested in foraging wild mushrooms, defence says​

The defence addresses the SD card found in Erin's home which had photos of wild mushrooms on it.

Mr Mandy says it is a popular activity, referencing the testimony of mycologist Tom May who said foraging grew in popularity during COVID-19.

He says Erin became interested during the same period.

"That's Erin's evidence too. It's not made up, it's not fabricated, it's the evidence," he says.

The jury is directed by Mr Mandy to look the photos, pointing out that Erin's children feature in many of the photos.

"This is evidence and confirmation that Erin Patterson had an interest in mushrooms at exactly the same time that Dr Tom May says that [foraging was] becoming popular," he says.

He says Erin's son's police interview was consistent with the images from the SD card and Dr May's testimony about its popularity.

 

[Megnut]

Erin and Simon had strong relationship, defence says​

Erin and Simon Patterson continued to have an amicable relationship even after their separation, Mr Mandy says.


He says that although the trial had drilled down into a conflict the couple had in December 2022, it was a brief period in a years-long relationship that had remained strong.

Remained strong? Or did he mean remained separated?

 

[lazymaiden07]

Defence urges jury to consider context of foraging​

Mr Mandy says context is important, and that Erin Patterson's picking of mushrooms is only a big deal now due to the nature of the trial.

He implies that her picking mushrooms on a walk would have been simply "incidental", and suggests that she would have done it "a handful of times" over the course of years.

Mr Mandy refers to evidence that Erin loved mushrooms, referencing testimony from her online friends that confirmed it.

"Erin loved mushrooms. Not only the wild ones, also eating them ... she told people that, she believed that they were full of nutrition and flavour and she used them in cooking," he says.

But he says despite her love for fungi, his client was not a routine forager.

"She was not suggesting to you that she was out there in the forest every day, scrambling around looking for mushrooms," he says.