Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

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  • #101
I agree, but there is no confirmation that the kids did this?

I was told the kids did it, but it seems obvious that kids did it. Erin wouldn't make those spelling errors. There was nobody else in the house during Covid, except Simon, who I can't see doing such drawings. IMO
 
  • #102
  • #103
Mandy says the jury must engage their heads and not their heart to intellectually examine the evidence.

“It doesn’t matter what you would have done in a situation,”

Mandy says it is impossible for jurors to know how they would behave in a situation.”

Prosecution's arguments about leftovers don't hold up, defence says​

Mr Mandy asks the jury why Ms Patterson would have put her poisoned leftovers into the bin at all, or have told police where they were.

Mandy is claiming to know what she would do with poisoned leftovers, right after chastising anyone for going by what they would do in a situation.
 
  • #104
Key Event
2m ago

Defence addresses weight-loss surgery claims​


By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy again says there is "simply no evidence" of any acrimony between Erin and the rest of the Patterson family.

The defence then moves to April and May of 2023.

He says his client had a problem with self-image and her weight, and was known to have purchased dieting books.

Mr Mandy says his client contacted the ENRICH clinic in April and May looking for weight loss options.

The prosecution challenged this in their closing arguments, saying Ms Patterson's initial claim that she wanted to undergo gastric-bypass surgery was a lie.

"All she'd done was make an appointment, and she said to Dr Rogers she was looking into liposuction as well," he says.
He says his client was "honestly mistaken" and had thought the clinic had offered gastric-bypass.

 
  • #105
I am probably one of the few who don't find this 'death wall' troublesome. I can imagine during covid her kids were bored at home and going stir crazy, and she was preparing that house for sale at the time, and having the house painted, so she let them draw on the wall. I don't think it's a big deal, IMO.

I don't either.
 
  • #106
12:33

No 'animosity' between Patterson and in-laws, defence claims​

The defence has argued there had been no animosity between Patterson and her in-laws leading up to the lunch and there was no evidence to prove otherwise.
Mr Mandy said the prosecution could've called witnesses including Don and Gail's children to say there was a frosty relationship between Patterson and her in-laws but they didn't.
The jury also heard evidence could've been gleaned from multiple devices seized by police which belonged to Patterson, Simon, Don and Gail to prove the accused had an issue with her in-laws but it wasn't presented.
'There could be some evidence contradicting Erin's position… but, it's just not before you… there's simply no evidence which contradicts the position we're putting to you…,’ Mr Mandy said.


12:34

Patterson 'honestly mistaken' about gastric-bypass claim​

Mr Mandy said Patterson had a problem with self-image and her weight in April and May of 2023.
'She had been binge eating and felt depressed,' he said.
Mr Mandy said Patterson contacted the ENRICH Clinic which he told the jury dealt with liposuction at the time.
He told the jury she had an appointment booked.
Mr Mandy said Patterson believed the clinic offered gastric band surgery.
'She was mistaken, honestly mistaken,' he said.

 
  • #107
Key Event
2m ago

Defence addresses weight-loss surgery claims​


By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy again says there is "simply no evidence" of any acrimony between Erin and the rest of the Patterson family.

The defence then moves to April and May of 2023.

He says his client had a problem with self-image and her weight, and was known to have purchased dieting books.

Mr Mandy says his client contacted the ENRICH clinic in April and May looking for weight loss options.

The prosecution challenged this in their closing arguments, saying Ms Patterson's initial claim that she wanted to undergo gastric-bypass surgery was a lie.


He says his client was "honestly mistaken" and had thought the clinic had offered gastric-bypass.


Clinics don't offer bariatric consultations, ever. Only bariatric surgeons do! 😒 Surely you wouldn't forget making an appointment with a surgeon.
 
  • #108
12.29pm

The aberration in Erin Patterson’s dealings with her in-laws​

By​

As Colin Mandy delivers his closing statement, he points to his client.

Erin Patterson, on trail for murder, is seated behind him in the dock, a pen in her right hand. Her eyes have remained fixed on her barrister as he takes the jury through a second day of his closing submissions.

Mandy uses his fingers as inverted commas when describing his client’s Facebook “friends”.

“I should always put inverted commas around that,” he says.

Mandy told the jury that the conversation between Patterson and her estranged husband, Simon, over Simon’s tax return change had been resolved amicably.

“Erin was entitled to a benefit that she wasn’t entitled to before. It wasn’t a negative change for her, as she made clear,” Mandy said.

Mandy added that later on, the messages showed that Patterson had requested some help from Simon to pay for their son’s anesthetist bill, and Simon had told the mother of two that paying the bill and school fees were out of the question.

“Anyone would be hurt about that. She did not think that what he was saying was right,” Mandy said.

Mandy said Patterson was frustrated and struggling to communicate, and was hoping that Don and Gail would help mediate the issue as they had previously done.

He said Erin and Simon were struggling to communicate about their son’s difficulties at school and the financial arrangements for the children.

He said the Pattersons were “eternally polite to each other”, so this kind of messaging would “jump out”. He said the tension was not significant or “very much at all”.

Mandy told the jury the tone of their messages showed the Pattersons were always polite in their exchanges, and that when Patterson was being honest in her responses, it might have been confronting for them.

“Prosecution argued to you yesterday that this is somehow an example of the accused leading a duplicitous life when it comes to the Pattersons,” Mandy said.

Mandy said that the messages were evidence that when Patterson got upset about something, she raised it.

He said there was no evidence, other than those messages in December 2022, about anything like that. “This was an aberration in her dealings with the Pattersons and there is nothing to say otherwise,” Mandy said.

At the same time Patterson was communicating with Don and Gail about this issue, she was messaging her Facebook friends.

“We know that between December 5 and 20, we know that there were 600 pages of messages over that time,” Mandy said, before naming the participants in that group chat.

He said Patterson rarely spoke to these people over the phone or in person, so anything she said to them about being an atheist would have been in writing, “but it’s not produced” by the prosecution.

Mandy said the prosecution’s messages were selective and did not provide context around Patterson’s messages. “And context is important,” Mandy said.

He said that between the first message the prosecution extracted and the last were 186 pages of messages.

“You would have your own experiences in the way that you present yourself to the world. Always polite to your grandmother and swearing like a trooper when you are with your mates. And maybe the other way around if you have a really cool grandma and nerdy friends,” Mandy said.

Mandy said people showed a different side of themselves depending on who they spoke to.

Patterson did not mean those things, and she regretted her language. “She is ashamed of what she’d written,” Mandy said.

He said the prosecution hadn’t said that Patterson had a motive to kill or seriously injure her lunch guests.

“Why is so much time then dedicated to those messages during the trial?” Mandy said.

“Because it was such a polite, kind and good relationship that these messages stand out. But they are not consistent with the whole of the relationship.”

Mandy said this was an attempt by the prosecution to “undermine the overwhelming evidence” that Patterson had a loving and respectful relationship with Don and Gail.

 
  • #109
Mandy, what about when Erin said during the trial, I did a factory reset of my phone because I had photos of mushrooms on there, and I thought the police wouldn’t like finding them

Spoliation or tampering with evidence, and openly admitted to it
 
  • #110
Clinics don't offer bariatric consultations, ever. Only bariatric surgeons do! 😒 Surely you wouldn't forget making an appointment with a surgeon.
Correct & you need a referral from your GP to boot!
 
  • #111
Key Event
3m ago

Cancer concerns addressed by defence​


By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy says Erin Patterson had spent much of the months leading up to April and May of 2023 concerned about her health and cancer.

"Erin often thought she had issues with her health that went nowhere," he says.
He says it is only natural that his client would hold fears that she may have cancer after discovering a lump on her elbow.

But Mr Mandy tells the jury the main reason for her holding a lunch on July 29 was to get closer with the family.

"It was not so much the lump on her elbow that was important, but the love, the support, the attention she was getting," he says.


 
  • #112
Key Event
2m ago

Defence addresses weight-loss surgery claims​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy again says there is "simply no evidence" of any acrimony between Erin and the rest of the Patterson family.

The defence then moves to April and May of 2023.

He says his client had a problem with self-image and her weight, and was known to have purchased dieting books.

Mr Mandy says his client contacted the ENRICH clinic in April and May looking for weight loss options.

The prosecution challenged this in their closing arguments, saying Ms Patterson's initial claim that she wanted to undergo gastric-bypass surgery was a lie.


He says his client was "honestly mistaken" and had thought the clinic had offered gastric-bypass.

Seriously? Who would confuse one procedure for another if they were sincerely looking for a specific treatment? Erin herself admitted to using “Dr. Google” for research so you’re going to tell me she’s too dumb to understand what a clinic offers? Nope.
 
  • #113
2m ago12.39 AEST
Mandy says despite Erin and Simon Patterson’s disagreement in late 2022 there was “no venom” in the pair’s relationship.

He says his client also had a good relationship with Don and Gail.

Mandy says Don and Gail were happy to go to Erin’s house in June and in July for the fateful meal.

“The fact is, there’s just simply no evidence that contradicts the position we’re putting to you,” he says.

He says Patterson had a history of low self-esteem and binge eating. During evidence, Patterson said she had been planning to have gastric bypass surgery for weight loss at the time of the lunch.

During cross-examination, Patterson told prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC she was also considering liposuction.

He says the Enrich clinic, which Patterson named in her evidence, definitely offered liposuction at that time.
 
  • #114
I am probably one of the few who don't find this 'death wall' troublesome. I can imagine during covid her kids were bored at home and going stir crazy, and she was preparing that house for sale at the time, and having the house painted, so she let them draw on the wall. I don't think it's a big deal, IMO.

I agree with this. As I said back when the wall was originally revealed, a lot of kids at their age are captivated by macabre imagery. You could go into any school and find similar doodles in the students' notebooks.
 
Last edited:
  • #115
The prosecution challenged this in their closing arguments, saying Ms Patterson's initial claim that she wanted to undergo gastric-bypass surgery was a lie.

He says his client was "honestly mistaken" and had thought the clinic had offered gastric-bypass.
Everything is just a mistake........... oopsie I poisoned my in-laws. My mistake.
 
  • #116
Key Event
2m ago

Lunch invite was designed to keep love and attention on Erin, defence says​


By Judd Boaz​

The defence says that the lunch invite was a ploy to garner love and attention from her relatives.

Mr Mandy says his client had felt hurt and isolated from her support network.

"Simon might have been isolating her a bit from the wider Patterson family, also probably true," he says.

"Medical appointments will keep those text messages and love and attention coming.

"It will provide a reason for people to be in touch with her and saying 'how're you going?' Be part of the family'."
Mr Mandy says that it is was not a crime to have done this, and Ms Patterson could not be found guilty of murder based on this.

"She's not on trial for lying, this is not a court of … moral judgement," he says.


 
  • #117
""It was not so much the lump on her elbow that was important, but the love, the support, the attention she was getting," he says."

So lying to Gail about an appointment for the elbow....
 
  • #118
Seriously? Who would confuse one procedure for another if they were sincerely looking for a specific treatment? Erin herself admitted to using “Dr. Google” for research so you’re going to tell me she’s too dumb to understand what a clinic offers? Nope.
she's only dumb when it suits her narrative.
 
  • #119
"Simon might have been isolating her a bit from the wider Patterson family, also probably true," he says.

---

I thought they had a good relationship.... so now he is isolating her?
 
  • #120
12:46

Defence denies Patterson had 'sinister' motive for lunch​

Mr Mandy told the court Patterson was often worried about her health while denying his client had a 'sinister' motive to get everyone to the lunch.
'Obviously this worry [about her health] was without substance,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said a lump on her elbow resulted in concern for his client.
Patterson told the jury she told Don and Gail about the lump and they were concerned but as it healed, she maintained the lump was an issue because she wanted her in-laws' care to continue.
Patterson admitted she was embarrassed about maintaining the lump issue.
Mr Mandy said everyone was happy to come to the lunch apart from Simon.
Asked why she held it, Mr Mandy said his client was worried about her relationship with her in-laws and wanted to be more pro-active to maintain contact with them.
Mr Mandy also dismissed Patterson had any sinister motive to invite her in-laws to the lunch.
He agreed she told lies at the lunch about her medical issues.
Mr Mandy told the jury again Patterson was not on trial for lying and urged the jury not to take a lie about her elbow and believe she was guilty of a triple murder.
Mr Mandy said Patterson had no malicious intent by telling the lie.
'All she wanted was the continued love and care of Don and Gail,' he said.
Mr Mandy dismissed suggestions the 'ruse' the prosecution alleged Patterson used to lure her guests to the lunch was to discuss her medical issues.
'Only Simon gave that evidence,' Mr Mandy said

 
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