Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[Scooby-Doo]

I suggest she knew there was no way that Simon was ever going to attend any meal cooked by her. IMO

I'm sure he never thought that his parents & aunt & uncle would be alleged targets IMO

That's what I think, she gave him a chance by possibly cooking the extra Beef Wellington, and when she knew he wasn't coming, that was thrown into the bin.

She possibly was nervous to send him one out that same day, in case he investigated it further, especially after Simon had been suspiciously unwell and nearly died from a gut illness

As well, Simon's relatives started getting sick around midnight, early hours of the next morning

So Errin then would have wanted to quickly distance herself from the meal

 

[MsMarple]

4m ago00.57 EDT
Mushroom photos and phone records

Mandy says the mushroom photos shown to the jury are a “selection” from a report on data extracted from the device.

“The investigators were only interested in these ones and that’s why they’re here before you,” he says.

“It’s not the whole context.”

Mandy says the jury have heard from telecommunications expert Dr Matthew Sorell that Patterson’s phone records showed potential visits to Loch and Outtrim – where death caps had been reported on the iNaturalist website – in the months before the lunch.

The prosecution alleges Patterson visited Outtrim on 22 May – the day after mycologist Dr Thomas May reported a death cap sighting on the iNaturalist website.

Mandy says the prosecution have told the jury that Sorell gave evidence that Patterson’s phone was stationary in the northern part of Outtrim on this day.

He says Sorell did not say this, but testified it was possible the phone could have been in the area.

 

[ch_13]

That's what I think, she gave him a chance by possibly cooking the extra Beef Wellington, and when she knew he wasn't coming, that was thrown into the bin.

She possibly was nervous to send him one out that same day, in case he investigated it further, especially after Simon had been suspiciously unwell and nearly died from a gut illness

As well, Simon's relatives started getting sick around midnight, early hours of the next morning

So Errin then would have wanted to quickly distance herself from the meal

She may have also wanted to give him the BW when he came to the house to drop off his son. Hoping, perhaps that he'd eat it for dinner. But even though his family was there, he stayed outside the house.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Key Event
1m ago

Defence dismisses 'absurd' claim Ms Patterson wanted to kill Simon​

Surviving lunch guest 'honestly mistaken', defence tells Erin Patterson jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson's defence lawyer is continuing his closing address to the jury after eight weeks of evidence in the triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy again reiterates the difficulty in identifying death cap mushrooms, as stated in evidence by Dr Tom May.


Mr Mandy tells the jury that the prosecution's allegation that Erin Patterson also wanted to kill her husband is "absurd".

He says that the consequences of such an act would be far too severe for herself and for her children.

Mr Mandy again reiterates the difficulty in identifying death cap mushrooms, as stated in evidence by Dr Tom May.
Not if you've done searches online and looked at photos of them.

"It's quite possible, obviously, that a person might pick death cap mushrooms instead of the other mushrooms they're accustomed to," Mr Mandy says.
The caps of the mushrooms are 40-160mm wide, usually pale green to yellow in colour, with distinctive white gills and white stem.

Mr Mandy tells the jury that the prosecution's allegation that Erin Patterson also wanted to kill her husband is "absurd".
Is it though? Simon believes that she allegedly attempted to poison him on 3 prior occasions, the last time in 2022, putting him into ICU where he was put into an induced coma,,,

 

[drsleuth]

14:55

Patterson 'possibly' picked death caps by mistake​

Mr Mandy said Patterson foraged and dried mushrooms and put them in the Tupperware container with other dried mushrooms and it was possible she picked the death caps by mistake.
The defence barrister also said the prosecution suggested Patterson had enough death caps by June 24 to poison all her guests.


15:01

Jury told claim Patterson wanted to kill Simon is 'absurd'​

Mr Mandy said it was only Simon (pictured) who mentioned anything about medical issues as a reason for the lunch and Patterson had tried to 'guilt' him into coming.
Mr Mandy said the Crown alleged Patterson 'wanted him there to kill him'.
'And that we say is an absurd theory,' Mr Mandy said.
'There's no possible prospect Erin wanted in those circumstances to destroy her own world, her own life.'
Mr Mandy also said the children 'weren't forbidden from attending the lunch'.
'They were offered a movie and went,' he said.
Mr Mandy said it was more likely Patterson 'wanted to reconnect with her in-laws than kill them'.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[katydid23]

Seriously? Who would confuse one procedure for another if they were sincerely looking for a specific treatment? Erin herself admitted to using “Dr. Google” for research so you’re going to tell me she’s too dumb to understand what a clinic offers? Nope.

12.51pm

Lies spun from insecurity, not malice​

ByMarta Pascual Juanola
Erin Patterson was a woman who struggled with her weight, image, and binge-eating, her defence lawyer, Colin Mandy, SC, has told the jury.

He said evidence from the leading detective in the case, Stephen Eppingstall, was that Patterson had purchased dieting books and that her medical records showed she had complained to a medical professional about her weight.

“That’s a theme consistent with her evidence,” Mandy said.

In April and May 2023, Patterson contacted the Enrich clinic, which offered liposuction, but that all she had done was make an appointment. Mandy said all she had done was make an appointment, and thought they offered a whole range of treatments including liposuction and gastric bypass, but she was mistaken.

“She often thought there was something wrong with her. Often this worry was without substance,” Mandy said, and that it wasn’t surprising that leading into April and May 2023, “a lump on her painful elbow would result in concern and worry in this same way”.

Patterson had lied to her relatives about her health leading up to the lunch, her lawyer acknowledged.

“Erin often thought that she had issues with her health that ended up going nowhere... that’s not made up, that’s not a lie, that’s for everyone to see in her medical records and the conversation she had with other people, including Simon,” Mandy said.

Patterson had moved to Leongatha further away from Don and Gail, with whom she had a good relationship, and Mandy said it was probably true that she felt that Simon might have been isolating her again from the broader Patterson family and that a lie about her health was understandable when put into the context of isolation when she wanted love and care. He said there was no malicious intent behind it.

He told the jury that if they put themselves in Patterson’s shoes at the time, it might be more understandable.
“She is not on trial for lying. This is not a court of... moral judgment. You shouldn’t take the lead from this lie about the lump on her elbow to finding her guilty of triple murder. Those two things are a very long way apart,” Mandy said.

“She was trying to gain something. The continuation of Don and Gail’s care and concern, love and attention. And if it wasn’t for the lunch no one would have found out that it was a lie,” Mandy said.

“Don and Gail, and Ian and Heather were not told anything about it. The evidence is that they did not know the reason or the purpose for the lunch on July 29, 2023. If it had been a rouse to get them all there, to mislead them to come to the lunch for some reason she would have given them that explanation before the lunch ... but she didn’t,” Mandy said.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 34 as it happened: Defence barrister Colin Mandy tells jury accused mushroom cook wanted to be close to in-laws; may have reacted differently to consuming to poison

Patterson’s barrister will continue his closing address in Morwell’s courtroom four on Thursday, after the judge warned jurors to expect a long direction from the bench next week.

www.theage.com.au

Geeeze....Mandy is really glossing over that huge cancer lie and trying to dismantle it.

Seems he ignored her lies about wanting to tell her family she had ovarian cancer so she would have help with childcare while her 'scheduled' bariatric surgery was taking place.

THAT ^^^ was the intricate LIE that Erin told the jury. Come to find out she had no scheduled surgery. So the defense now trying to say 'Hey, she made alit mistake, thought they did stomach stapling---My Bad---- >>>That's not enough of an explanation, IMO

 

[Detechtive]

Prosecution of being 'very selective' with phone data: Defence​

Mr Mandy has now moved onto the alleged visits to Loch and Outtrim on May 22.
But he said the prosecution theory was “getting complicated” because, on its case, the accused had all the death caps she needed on April 28 after picking them from Loch and weighing them on her kitchen scales.
“According to them, she’s got all that she … needs,” he said.
He turned to the evidence of digital forensics expert Dr Matthew Sorell.
Dr Sorell testified that phone records show “possible visits” were made to Loch on April 28 and Loch and Outtrim on May 22 by Erin’s phone.
Mr Mandy said the prosecution may not be correct about Erin’s visits to Loch and Outtrim being “outliers” because Dr Sorell was only given high-level phone records – known as event-based monitoring records – for 23 days instead of hundreds.
He accused the prosecution of being “very selective” with the days.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-defence-closing-address-continues/live-coverage/465cb2bb7de532b4bb938d7d4b405f6b#/entry/32283414

 

[Detechtive]

No prospect Erin wanted to 'destroy her whole world'​

Mr Mandy said the prosecution suggested Erin was planning to serve a poisoned beef wellington to Simon, if he turned up to the lunch.
He said, if that was true, Erin would be planning to kill her children’s father and grandparents, as well as her husband’s uncle and aunt.
He told the jury there was “no possible prospect” she wanted to “destroy her whole world” and “her whole life”.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-defence-closing-address-continues/live-coverage/465cb2bb7de532b4bb938d7d4b405f6b#/entry/32283414

 

[Eloise]

No prospect Erin wanted to 'destroy her whole world'​

Mr Mandy said the prosecution suggested Erin was planning to serve a poisoned beef wellington to Simon, if he turned up to the lunch.
He said, if that was true, Erin would be planning to kill her children’s father and grandparents, as well as her husband’s uncle and aunt.
He told the jury there was “no possible prospect” she wanted to “destroy her whole world” and “her whole life”.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-defence-closing-address-continues/live-coverage/465cb2bb7de532b4bb938d7d4b405f6b#/entry/32283414

but people do that all the time. People often choose to blow up their own life just to take someone else's out. They don't think they're gonna get caught, obviously

 

[drsleuth]

2.56pm

Speculation and ambiguity over mushroom and dehydrator image dates​

By​

Erin Patterson is seated in the dock, closing her eyes for periods as her barrister addresses the jury after lunch today, running through evidence from mycologist Dr Tom May, phone tower expert Dr Matthew Sorell, and Christine McKenzie, a retired pharmacist who worked for the Victorian Poisons Information Centre for 17 years.

Defence barrister Colin Mandy, SC, said the prosecution really wanted to paint a visit to Loch by Erin Patterson as only possible, as it happened on the same day as images were taken of the dehydrator.

“[The] prosecution says - and it was put to her, Erin, in cross-examination - that on April 28 she had enough death cap mushrooms – assuming those in the tray are death cap mushrooms – already to kill five people.”

Mandy said that the prosecution’s theory was based on speculation and there was no evidence as to when the images that did not feature the dehydrator had been taken.

“It is impossible for those images to have been taken as the time recorded as the modified time because very often they are in a sequence of very close timings in terms of seconds. So they were not taken at those times,” Mandy said.

Mandy said he wanted to emphasise that the exhibit photographs were a selection of images from a report generated by investigators that were tagged as “evidence”.

“The investigators were only interested in those ones, and that’s why they are here in front of you,” Mandy said, but pointed out there was no evidence as to what “modified” meant in the context of those images.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 34 as it happened: Defence barrister Colin Mandy tells jury accused mushroom cook wanted to be close to in-laws; may have reacted differently to consuming to poison

Patterson’s barrister will continue his closing address in Morwell’s courtroom four on Thursday, after the judge warned jurors to expect a long direction from the bench next week.

www.theage.com.au

 

[MsMarple]

1m ago15.15 AEST

Not possible accused wanted to 'destroy her whole world', defence says​

Mandy says the prosecution’s argument that Patterson wanted Simon at the lunch so she could also kill him is “absurd”.

He says it is not a possible prospect that Patterson wanted to “destroy her whole world”.

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
2m ago

We return to the July 29 lunch​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence turns to the July 29 lunch and the preparation of the beef Wellingtons.

Mr Mandy says that if the prosecution's argument that one Wellington was safe and the others were poisoned, Erin Patterson would have had to be very careful in preparing it.

He suggests to the jury the only way to differentiate the safe Wellington from the poisoned ones would be to mark the pastry in some way.

Mr Mandy then suggests Ian Wilkinson was wrong about his claim about different coloured plates being used at the lunch.

"He's wrong. Honestly mistaken," he says.

Mr Mandy then reminds the jury that Simon Patterson told the court that Erin did not own many plates, and that police did not find any plates matching the description when searching her home a week after the lunch.

He also raises the testimony of Erin's son's friend, who recalled seeing white plates on the day of the lunch.

Surviving lunch guest 'honestly mistaken', defence tells Erin Patterson jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson's defence lawyer is continuing his closing address to the jury after eight weeks of evidence in the triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Kemug]

Though there has been no diagnosis of NPD, or BPD, or any such conditions presented to the jury.

And the opinions of those 12 balloted people are the only ones that are going to count in the outcome.

imo

Unless there is a hung jury? And maybe a retrial?

 

[drsleuth]

15:19

Claim lunch plates were different colours is pulled apart​

Mr Mandy reminded the jury that the Crown said five poisoned beef Wellington parcels and one unpoisoned one were baked in the oven.
'If that was the case, it would be very important to make sure… you can tell which one is the non-poisonous one,' Mr Mandy suggested.
Mr Mandy reminded the jury Mr Wilkinson (pictured right) gave evidence all the Wellingtons came out of the oven on the same tray and he, his wife Heather and Don and Gail ate off four large grey plates and Patterson ate from a smaller colourful plate.
Mr Mandy said you'd need to mark the unpoisoned one to recognise it when it comes off the oven tray.
'So different coloured plates would not be required,' Mr Mandy said
Mr Mandy suggested Mr Wilkinson was wrong about the different coloured plate.
'On all of the evidence he's wrong, honestly mistaken,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said the search by police in August was thorough and they found no plates that matched Mr Wilkinson's description in the house.
Mr Mandy also said Simon said Patterson did not have matching plates
'He believed Patterson had a random selection of plates,' Mr Mandy said
'Which is what police found during their search,' he suggested.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LinasK]

@MaxDecimus13

This is an excellent post - and I think you are coming to the dark side despite your resistance

Without a doubt, Erin is a very intelligent person. She is methodical. She is obsessive in researching and fact gathering I would even suggest she is quite OCD in this way. She would make an excellent investigator. I've said before that it's a mistake to underestimate her mental faculties like I have seen many people do. It is without doubt that someone who qualifies as an Air Traffic Controller has a high level of intelligence.

However, nobody is a purely rational actor. She is quite rigid and I can imagine that any 'spanner in the works' (such as the hospital being onto the Death Cap cause quickly) caused irrational and careless actions post-lunch. However, that doesn't explain the one thing that has always given me pause, and that is - how could someone plan to kill 4 or 5 people and expect not to have intense focus on them?

But I think this explains it; assuming Erin was driven by a revenge mindset, she could have convinced herself her story would be believed through a blend of emotional distortion and irrational self-deception. Feeling wronged due to marital tensions, losing control of Simon who she saw as her possession rather than a partner, child-support disputes, and in-law conflicts she may have convinced herself her actions were justified emotional retaliation rather than murder, fostering motivated reasoning that reframed lethal intent as a kitchen mistake . This emotional fog likely triggered tunnel vision, so she fixated on immediate details (the cooking, the lunch) and ignored systemic consequences like forensic testing or rapid police probing and data connections .

Each time she imagined her narrative, that she panicked, not plotted her brain’s dopamine-driven reward circuits reinforced that belief, making it feel rational and believable. This would be further exacerbated by the fact it was long planned and she didn't discuss it with anyone else, which leads to confirmation bias, and eroding of rationality because other peoples thoughts on it aren't being reflected back at her to tighten up her logic. Similar to what happens with conspiracy theorists in echo chambers.

Finally, she likely overestimated the power of her emotional narrative - no motive, no symptoms, expressions of shock, believing that emotional testimony would outweigh hard forensic evidence, even as investigators found toxin DNA, chemical traces, and phone data inconsistencies.

In short, maybe revenge fuelled self-deception and emotional overconfidence blinded her to the reality that the tools of modern investigation wouldn’t be swayed by personal narratives, especially when she has been so adept at manipulating people and situations with her personal emotional narratives in the past.

Edit: To add to this, she was telling her only friends and social network (the online FB group) this emotionally deceptive narrative about her awful in-laws and estranged husband, which we saw during the prosecution case invited comments and perhaps further confirmations that her feelings of wanting to "get rid of them" were valid. Innocent comments from her support group who have been deceived on the truth about her in-laws like "You need to remove these toxic people from your life" could have very much helped fuel her self-deceptions and righteousness in getting rid of them in the most literal sense, IMO.

IMO only.

Just getting caught up, but this is an excellent post that explains her motivation well to me, and there's also this one from the previous thread from Max: Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #14 *Arrest*

 

[drsleuth]

15:20

Surviving guest wrong about plates, jury hears​

Mr Mandy continued to address the jury about Patterson's plates, reminding them of evidence given throughout the trial including his client's son's friend who described white plates in the sink.
'Search warrant video showed two black plates, two white plates and some colourful plates,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said there was no 'orangey-tan' plate as described by Mr Wilkinson.
Mr Mandy said Patterson's son's evidence the plates were white should be believed.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
1m ago

More on the plates used at lunch​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy goes to the police interview of Ms Patterson's son, who also claimed to see white plates.

Her son described the plates as 15cm in diameter, with a 5cm edge on them.

Mr Mandy tells the jury to ignore the size suggested by Ms Patterson's son, as that would make them very small.

He instead tells the jury to focus on the colour of the plates.

Similarly, Ms Patterson's daughter reported seeing white plates to police.

Mr Mandy says the prosecution is asking the jury to ignore the testimony of the accused, Simon, their two children and their son's friend and to only take Ian Wilkinson at his word.

Surviving lunch guest 'honestly mistaken', defence tells Erin Patterson jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson's defence lawyer is continuing his closing address to the jury after eight weeks of evidence in the triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

15:20

Surviving guest wrong about plates, jury hears​

Mr Mandy continued to address the jury about Patterson's plates, reminding them of evidence given throughout the trial including his client's son's friend who described white plates in the sink.
'Search warrant video showed two black plates, two white plates and some colourful plates,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said there was no 'orangey-tan' plate as described by Mr Wilkinson.
Mr Mandy said Patterson's son's evidence the plates were white should be believed.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LinasK]

How do you see that it matters to the actual murders? She has admitted to lying. But she has never lied about intentions to kill. I'm just trying to understand the law.

I think she has.

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
1m ago

Ian Wilkinson 'honestly mistaken' about plates, defence says​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence says that as Ian Wilkinson had never been to Erin Patterson's house before, he would naturally be less familiar with the crockery than the other members of the family.

"Honestly mistaken," Mr Mandy says once more.

Mr Mandy again tells the jury it would have been much easier to mark a non-poisoned pastry rather than serve it on a different coloured plate.

He notes that Heather Wilkinson and Gail Patterson took plates themselves to the table without prompting from Erin.

Surviving lunch guest 'honestly mistaken', defence tells Erin Patterson jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson's defence lawyer is continuing his closing address to the jury after eight weeks of evidence in the triple-murder trial.

www.abc.net.au