Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[Detechtive]

Mr Mandy would be the defence lawyer I'd want if I was accused of something I didn't do.

He is doing an excellent job on EPs behalf.

I thought he did well during his original defence. He is not doing well now by any objective measure, IMO.

 

[Shortfusepsb]

I thought he did well during his original defence. He is not doing well now by any objective measure, IMO.

To be fair, his original defence was before her cross examination... She undid everything herself. Hard to rebuild from that.

 

[Ellery84]

To be fair, his original defence was before her cross examination... She undid everything herself. Hard to rebuild from that.

That’s true. She should have listened to her counsel and taken their advice to remain silent. IMO.

 

[Detechtive]

To be fair, his original defence was before her cross examination... She undid everything herself. Hard to rebuild from that.

Yeah don't get me wrong, I think he is doing an excellent job considering what he has to work with (not much), but it isn't working to poke holes in the prosecutions case, IMO.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

1m ago
Defence urges jury to consider context of foraging
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy says context is important, and that Erin Patterson's picking of mushrooms is only a big deal now due to the nature of the trial.

He implies that her picking mushrooms on a walk would have been simply "incidental", and suggests that she would have done it "a handful of times" over the course of years.

Mr Mandy refers to evidence that Erin loved mushrooms, referencing testimony from her online friends that confirmed it.

"Erin loved mushrooms. Not only the wild ones, also eating them ... she told people that, she believed that they were full of nutrition and flavour and she used them in cooking," he says.

But he says despite her love for fungi, his client was not a routine forager.

"She was not suggesting to you that she was out there in the forest every day, scrambling around looking for mushrooms," he says.

So why did it take her months to use the Death Cap mushrooms (by which time they would have stunk) and not tasted one herself beforehand to see how full of nutrition & flavour they were?

Of course had she tasted one after she ‘foraged’ for them 3 other people would still be alive today and not suffered excruciating painful & unpleasant deaths.

 

[Kemug]

Mr Mandy says Ms Patterson is not on trial for being a liar or being morally incorrect, and those things had no place in the trIal.

RSBM
It sounds like Mr Mandy thinks Erin is a liar, and has questionable morals. IMO

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I was told the kids did it, but it seems obvious that kids did it. Erin wouldn't make those spelling errors. There was nobody else in the house during Covid, except Simon, who I can't see doing such drawings. IMO

I’m surprised she didn’t say it was her children who played around with the Death Caps and unwittingly put them in with the other mushrooms. Think she missed a trick there as she isn’t afraid to throw them under the bus.

 

[L_B]

Mandy said Lovelock’s evidence – that there was an indication of a mushroom type that was not button or death caps – supported Patterson’s statement that there were three types of mushrooms in the meal.

but it took her ages to admit there was foraged mushrooms in there...

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I think Simon was the main hit. She was not happy that he was not attending.

But I am sure she wanted the whole lot gone, in one go, so they weren't in her and the kids' lives again

But I can't understand why she just didn't postpone the lunch, so Simon could attend as well?

The Death Caps were getting more pungent by the day

 

[Jake18]

That’s true. She should have listened to her counsel and taken their advice to remain silent. IMO.

I am a bit taken aback that he has stated that she was sick earlier than the guests because she tasted the mushrooms mixture after the death cap-tainted “Asian” mushrooms were supposed added. That directly contradicts what Erin said.

Was he hoping no one would notice? Are they actually allowed to do that??

 

[Bats]

I'm scratching my head wondering why some don't think Colin Mandy KC has much to work with here.

He has all of the prosecution's evidence to work with. There's been 2 months of evidence to work with. And also, I have no doubt he and his team feel blessed to have a client who they thought (IMO) was more than capable of standing up to a grilling from Dr Rogers.

For the occupation of a defence barrister, I'm not sure it gets any better.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Key Event
3m ago

We return from the break​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Colin Mandy SC has continued with his closing argument for the defence.

He has turned his attention towards death cap mushrooms, and says the prosecution's argument lives in "a world of total speculation".

Mr Mandy says by the prosecution's argument, Erin must have collected enough death cap mushrooms to kill five people by April 28th, despite expert evidence stating they are very difficult to find and identify.

Are they now denying that she foraged and collected enough death caps to kill the lunch guests?

14:48

Questions over why Patterson would forage for more death caps​

Mr Mandy has taken the jury back to images found on a device and quizzed why his client would hunt for more death caps if she already had collected enough in April 2023.
He said the images of mushrooms in the dehydrator were taken the day after it was purchased.
'But the other ones are unclear,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said these images were found in cache images.
'It's not the whole context of what's in the drive,' Mr Mandy said
Mr Mandy said the details of the images were different from the prosecution's assertions Patterson made possible visits to Loch and Outtrim on May 22.
The jury heard death caps had been seen on May 21.
Mr Mandy asked why his client would be looking for more death caps if she got all she needed in April.
'It's getting complicated this theory,' Mr Mandy said.
'According to them, she's got all that she needs… and there's no need, in our submission, for her to get any more on May 22.

"Mr Mandy asked why his client would be looking for more death caps if she got all she needed in April....
According to them, she's got all that she needs… and there's no need, in our submission, for her to get any more on May 22."

This ^^^ is a weird statement that they are wanting to 'prove.'

So their contention is their client 'got all the death caps she needed by April?"

OK, if you say so.

 

[srper2]

Simon Patterson's cross-examination revisited​

Mr Mandy takes the jury back to his cross-examination of Erin Patterson's estranged husband, Simon.

During his testimony, Mr Mandy had asked Simon a barrage of questions relating to how well Erin got on with his parents, and how close she was in particular with Don.

Simon told the court that he believed Erin had loved his parents, and that for quite some time they had formed part of her support network.

They "had" formed part of her suport network. When they no longer did, she got rid of them.

 

[katydid23]

14:32

Doubt case over images of 'death caps'​

Mr Mandy said images found on Patterson's computer 'appeared to be death caps' but they could have been something else.
The barrister also said the jury couldn't say for sure they were death caps.
'It's hard to say,' Mr Mandy said.
'Even if they were death cap mushrooms it doesn't mean they were foraged intentionally.'

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So they are denying those were death caps in the photos? [Which is meaningless since her 4 lunch guests were poisoned by death caps.]

and they argue that even if they were death caps, doesn't mean she picked them intentionally. HOWEVER they also argued that the reason she looked at the inaturalist website photos was because she was curious about death caps because she frequently picked mushrooms to eat.

And they claimed she had experience foraging and had books on the subject.

So how did she end up picking some wild mushrooms 'by the oak trees' according to her own words---if she knew about how to identify death caps?

 

[SouthAussie]

is this the first time we (public) are hearing this?

I just looked back on the testimony of Dr Truong because that is the first that I have heard that.


On August 2, 2023, she took the food to her work laboratory and “conducted exactly the same investigation” at her office as she had at home. Dr Truong said there were “no signs” of death cap mushrooms in the food sample.

On both inspections, however she found field mushrooms.

“The name is agaricus bisporus. This is the typical mushrooms that you find in a supermarket,” she said. “That is the only mushroom that I found in this food item.”

Dr Truong’s colleague, mycologist Tom May, on Wednesday told the court death cap mushrooms can look like non-toxic mushrooms such as “young puffballs”.

“In general, young puffballs are regarded as edible,” he said.

‘NO SIGN’ OF DEATH CAPS IN LUNCH LEFTOVERS

‘NO SIGN’ OF DEATH CAPS IN LUNCH LEFTOVERS

todayspaper.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Moll]

I'm scratching my head wondering why some don't think Colin Mandy KC has much to work with here.

He has all of the prosecution's evidence to work with. There's been 2 months of evidence to work with. And also, I have no doubt he and his team feel blessed to have a client who they thought (IMO) was more than capable of standing up to a grilling from Dr Rogers.

For the occupation of a defence barrister, I'm not sure it gets any better.

JMO

Thanks - the idea that the defence team might 'feel blessed' to have Erin Patterson as a client has given me a chuckle on a morning when world news is rather short on chuckles.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Sorry wasn’t sure how to post Woolly’s reply from yesterday.

Has anyone else read or listened to the book Pagan Spring and the meal that apparently included a Death Cap poisoning?

I understand EP used a witch as her Facebook profile picture which I find interesting.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I'm scratching my head wondering why some don't think Colin Mandy KC has much to work with here.

He has all of the prosecution's evidence to work with. There's been 2 months of evidence to work with. And also, I have no doubt he and his team feel blessed to have a client who they thought (IMO) was more than capable of standing up to a grilling from Dr Rogers.

For the occupation of a defence barrister, I'm not sure it gets any better.

JMO

BBM
Respectfully, I disagree. I definitely think it gets better. You can have more to work with, more ways to shut down or question the prosecution's case, which I think has been pretty brilliant. You have logical and reasonable answers for everything the prosecution brought up. You can explain away all the circumstantial evidence. You can certainly have a case where it's not so hard to try and plead your client's innocence.
MOO

 

[Monstradamus]

3.41pm

Different coloured plates just ‘colourful evidence’​

By​

In Morwell’s courtroom four, accused killer Erin Patterson’s defence lawyer Colin Mandy, SC, has turned his attention back to the day of the fatal lunch, after addressing evidence from other witnesses.

Mandy said that the prosecution’s case was that there were five poisoned parcels of beef Wellington and one non-poisonous one, but if that were the case it would be very important to make sure it was possible to tell which one of the meals in the oven was the non-poisonous one. Baptist pastor Ian Wilkinson’s evidence was that they came from a tray.

“There’s only one logical way of getting around that problem ... and that would be to mark that unpoisoned one wrapped in pastry in some way so that you could recognise it,” Mandy said. “In which case you would not need different coloured plates.“

Mandy said the evidence about the plates at the lunch was “very colourful”, but when one looked at the plates in Patterson’s house Wilkinson had to have been wrong. “It makes no sense logically that you would use that method to deliver an unpoisoned parcel. He then reminded the jury of Patterson’s ex-husband Simon’s evidence that she did not have a full set of matching plates. He also pointed the jurors to evidence from Patterson’s son and his friend who reported seeing white plates.

“There were certainly two white plates and a couple of colourful plates ... but there were no orangy-tan plates,” Mandy said, and that evidence from Simon, the two children and the search warrant video were all consistent. ”The prosecution says: ‘Nah, nah, nah, Ian’s right and they are all wrong’,” Mandy said. “In Erin’s case she is lying.”

Mandy said prosecutor Dr Nanette Rogers had concentrated on Wilkinson’s account and a passage from Patterson’s son’s evidence on the plates, and ignored evidence from Patterson’s daughter, asking the jury to rely on this “colourful piece of evidence” from Wilkinson.

Mandy said it was likely there were at least three different coloured plates at the lunch and it would make perfect sense for the guests to take the matching set for themselves to the table. He said Wilkinson had never been to Patterson’s house before, while Don and Gail had, and would have been more familiar with the crockery.

“There’s the issue of how much everyone ate. Erin said she ate about half. Varying accounts about that from her. But question is, members of the jury, is how would you know if you ate half or not,” Mandy said, suggesting one would have to measure the parcel, cut it in half and only eat one half in order to know, and that no one had contradicted Patterson’s account that she didn’t eat it all.

He said staff at Leongatha hospital did not ask her how much she had eaten and suggested that if she had volunteered that information to staff at the medical centre the prosecution would have accused her of lying.
“Damned if you do, damned if you don’t,” Mandy said.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 34 as it happened: Defence barrister Colin Mandy tells jury accused mushroom cook wanted to be close to in-laws; may have reacted differently to consuming to poison

Patterson’s barrister will continue his closing address in Morwell’s courtroom four on Thursday, after the judge warned jurors to expect a long direction from the bench next week.

www.theage.com.au

The smaller white plates the children had seen were dessert plates, imo. The children arrived home during dessert (orange cake and fruit) so it makes sense that the deadly BW plates had already been cleared away.

 

[katydid23]

I'm scratching my head wondering why some don't think Colin Mandy KC has much to work with here.

He has all of the prosecution's evidence to work with. There's been 2 months of evidence to work with. And also, I have no doubt he and his team feel blessed to have a client who they thought (IMO) was more than capable of standing up to a grilling from Dr Rogers.

I don't think she successfully 'stood up' to anybody. She did speak up and reacted confidently---but was caught in multiple bald-faced lies.

She bickered over petty details while then conceding big important lies. Having to admit she lied repeatedly about her cover up, and her fake cancer treatments, etc. And she stubbornly lied about foraging, even as her lunch guests were near death.

I really wouldn't call her time in the box a wild success. IMO

For the occupation of a defence barrister, I'm not sure it gets any better.

JMO

Agree to disagree.