Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

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  • #421
Somebody help me out here. Colin Mandy SC wants the jury to reach a verdict not based on their heart or hindsight. Yet EP’s defence testimony started out with sob story after sob story and the evidence that the prosecution has literally depends on hindsight to begin with? The maths isn’t mathing
 
  • #422
Why didn't EP disclose her health condition ahead of time? Alive people can talk.

Why was she comfortable telling guests about a cancer she knew she didn't have?

You can tell dead people anything.

Her guests prayed for her before they left. You might say EP had them eating out of the palm of her hand.

A little Saccharin for the journey.

 JMO
 
  • #423
Somebody help me out here. Colin Mandy SC wants the jury to reach a verdict not based on their heart or hindsight. Yet EP’s defence testimony started out with sob story after sob story and the evidence that the prosecution has literally depends on hindsight to begin with? The maths isn’t mathing

It doesn't have to math. All Mandy needs to do is convince one juror that there is reasonable doubt. He can say virtually whatever he wants to create that doubt. As long as he sticks to what has been presented.

The jurors need to be smart enough to look at what Mandy doesn't say, as opposed to what he does say. For example, as @MsMarple raised earlier, so far there hasn't been a peep from Mr Mandy (that I have seen) as to why the children didn't get sick from the 'leftovers'.

imo
 
  • #424
Somebody help me out here. Colin Mandy SC wants the jury to reach a verdict not based on their heart or hindsight. Yet EP’s defence testimony started out with sob story after sob story and the evidence that the prosecution has literally depends on hindsight to begin with? The maths isn’t mathing
"When truth isn’t on your side, weaponise chaos"
 
  • #425
It doesn't have to math. All Mandy needs to do is convince one juror that there is reasonable doubt. He can say virtually whatever he wants to create that doubt. As long as he sticks to what has been presented.

The jurors need to be smart enough to look at what Mandy doesn't say, as opposed to what he does say. For example, as @MsMarple raised earlier, so far there hasn't been a peep from Mr Mandy (that I have seen) as to why the children didn't get sick from the 'leftovers'.

imo
The children not getting sick and Erin’s reluctance to take them to hospital will have to be covered if she has a chance of getting off, IMO
 
  • #426
Yes, the two witnesses who were at the meal said the accused used different plate. Mandy points to all the plate evidence being questionable. He also argues, oh well wouldn’t there be more photo or website evidence of death caps. Well yes probably, but a lot of phone resetting and concealing main phone put paid to this.
Re different plates. I don't worry about there being different plates. She didn't host much, so may have only had a good set of 4. So she gave the 4 good plates to the guests, and used the odd one for herself. Wouldn't most of us do that?
 
  • #427
I've never eaten it, or seen it eaten, and I'm English. I've probably seen it on a menu now and again but nothing concrete that I can remember.
Since you've brought it up ;) , I'll say that, if there are only two choices, I'll choose the BW with concrete mixed in over any BW prepared in EP's kitchen.

But I'm picky like that.

JMO
 
  • #428
Re different plates. I don't worry about there being different plates. She didn't host much, so may have only had a good set of 4. So she gave the 4 good plates to the guests, and used the odd one for herself. Wouldn't most of us do that?

Yes, we likely would. It is the description of the 'good plates' that were used that is under scrutiny.

I have often wondered if Erin had some grey plates stored in a box, perhaps that used to be her mothers. No-one else really thought about them (meaning Simon and the kids) as they had been packed away for so long. And now the plates are gone and no-one noticed them missing because they didn't know they were packed away in the first place.
 
  • #429
From what I have read and observed about the accused, I don’t believe Mandy would have had a choice about her testifying. I’d wager she pretty much demanded to do so. It appears she needs to be in control and relies mainly on her own judgement. She can clearly research well, remember information exceptionally well, and stand up for herself. She presents as pedantic and somewhat argumentative - maybe rude or abrupt at times. She’s been described as a bit of a loner, has few friends and socialises moreso online rather than in person. She was almost incapable of stopping herself correcting others in testifying. She often takes words quite literally and doesn’t easily pick up on nuance. For example, she asked Dr Roger’s, What do you mean by “interest” in mushrooms. She often quibbled about the actual questions or use of words by Dr Rogers and other witnesses. “Well I didn’t say that I actually said this.” and “Well I didn’t tell anyone I’d taken Imodium, because no-one asked me.” Although she appeared self assured and self centred, there were also times where she was often painted, by herself or the defence, as vulnerable and victimlike.
She appears to be very pedantic with language. However a reason for this is that the English language can be very confusing if not clarified. Her family came from a non English speaking background. Maybe she is just getting it right in her mind. It's like in Australia we might tell someone to hop in the car. We don't actually mean that though.
 
  • #430
Like your logic here. I don’t really have any reason to believe the accused loved mushrooms anyway. Think Mandy also referred to the dehydrator as a murder weapon??? Correct me if I mistaken? Think it was the toxin that caused the deaths rather than the dehydrator.

Maybe he meant to say

Gun/bullet
Dehydrator/toxin

It was a strange thing to say at all.

His closing performance reads like he ate a dictionary and it's just all coming out at once.

JMO
 
  • #431
FWIW

IMO EP didn't have ovarian elbow.

She likely had a rash or eczema on her elbow. Which is why she sought a dermatology clinic. And canceled it when it cleared up. You know, like Stage IV ovarian cancer does.

JMO
Makes sense considering the doctor she booked in was an allergist.
 
  • #432
She appears to be very pedantic with language. However a reason for this is that the English language can be very confusing if not clarified. Her family came from a non English speaking background. Maybe she is just getting it right in her mind. It's like in Australia we might tell someone to hop in the car. We don't actually mean that though.

Her family came from an English speaking background. Her mother was a professor of English literature.
 
  • #433
She also suggested at one point eating a quarter or a third. You know roughly how much you've ate that you know the difference between those.
Well, not if you don't have a ruler.

:rolleyes:

Jmo
 
  • #434
Somebody help me out here. Colin Mandy SC wants the jury to reach a verdict not based on their heart or hindsight. Yet EP’s defence testimony started out with sob story after sob story and the evidence that the prosecution has literally depends on hindsight to begin with? The maths isn’t mathing
But the pieces of the puzzle will hopefully come together to show a coherent picture. Think Mr Mandy is tossing in a few puzzle pieces that don’t fit very well.
 
  • #435
BBM
I don't know what the alternative is but knowing the defence is given the entire brief of evidence and then has months to concoct a story to "explain" it or come up with ideas to discredit it seems slightly biased.
In the "game of law" I think the defence gets a lot of advantages...
Yes, the defence gets to see it all. Didn’t her defence provide info for her to study up on four types of mushrooms… I just thought maybe the Judge might call a halt if he thought the defence was covering things that aren’t probative but the Judge is trying to be fair and has to make tricky judgement calls all the time I guess. And at times he did call breaks right throughout the trial to keep things on track. He seems very considerate in regard to the jurors and everyone really.
 
  • #436
  • #437
  • #438
Key Event
3m ago
Justice Beale updates the jury's timeline
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Justice Beale begins proceedings by telling the jury that he will not begin giving his directions until Tuesday.

It means the jury will have Monday off.

"Mr Mandy will complete his closing address today and then there are legal matters to attend to and I will be sending you home then ... think of it as a second Easter," Justice Beale told the jury.

"My charge will take at least two days ... I'm working hard to try and compress it .... but there's quite a lot of information."

Colin Mandy SC is up now, and continues his closing arguments.
 
  • #439
In the US, if the Defense opens the door to good character stories, the State can rebut with bad acts iiuc.

EP is lucky that door has remained closed.

JMO
Same thing applies here in Oz.

This case has played out somewhat similarly to the Greg Lynn case, in that the defence knew better than to call character witnesses, only to end up with the defenfent themself on the stand.
 
  • #440
Key Event
1m ago
Justice Beale updates the jury's timeline

By Judd Boaz

Justice Beale begins proceedings by telling the jury that he will not begin giving his directions until Tuesday.

It means the jury will have Monday off.

Colin Mandy SC is up now, and continues his closing arguments.

That means we probably have two more days of Mandy. IMO
 
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