Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[MrJ]

Key Event
Just now
Erin Patterson had three symptoms that 'can't be faked', defence says

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy references test results from Ms Patteron's stay in hospital, and says three readings that could not be faked were measured, these being:

low potassium
elevated haemoglobin
elevated fibrinogin
He says expert evidence concluded these were consistent with a diarrheal illness.

Mr Mandy dismissed other readings, such as Ms Patterson's normal urea-to-creatinine levels, saying medical professionals told the court they would not give preference to readings.

 

[Megnut]

I find this maddening in comparison to her lunch guests...

Key Event
1m ago
Defence says Erin Patterson was truly sick

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy reiterates that his client was in fact sick after the lunch, and attended hospital as her symptoms had not subsided.

"She was not as sick as the other lunch guests, nor did she represent that she was," he says.

He challenges the prosecution's argument that Ms Patterson's elevated vital signs were due to stress.

Mr Mandy says expert evidence told the court that diarrhoea is also a form of physical stress, with the evidence supporting Ms Patterson's claims of illness

Bbm

I can agree with that. Not stress. But how about due maybe to an over-serving of laxatives?

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I find this maddening in comparison to her lunch guests...

Key Event
1m ago
Defence says Erin Patterson was truly sick

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy reiterates that his client was in fact sick after the lunch, and attended hospital as her symptoms had not subsided.

"She was not as sick as the other lunch guests, nor did she represent that she was," he says.

He challenges the prosecution's argument that Ms Patterson's elevated vital signs were due to stress.

Mr Mandy says expert evidence told the court that diarrhoea is also a form of physical stress, with the evidence supporting Ms Patterson's claims of illness

Mr Mandy,

The liver is the first organ encountered after absorption and is the principal organ affected
The fact Erin's liver function was completely normal, despite the "gastro", is 100% that she did not consume any deathcaps

 

[MrJ]

Key Event
Just now
Defence notes prosecution's lack of questions on toxicity

By Judd Boaz

As he has done several times in his closing, Mr Mandy has zoned in on questions that the prosecution did not ask of witnesses.

He challenges the claim by the prosecution that even a little bit of amatoxin consumption would make someone very ill.

"Where's the evidence of that in this case? From any of the toxicologists, liver specialists?" Mr Mandy asks.

"Why wasn't anyone asked that question?"

Victorian toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos told the court during his testimony that a lethal dose was considered to be 0.1 mg per kg of body weight.

 

[tmar]

I agree. IMO she's not portraying a woman crushed by the knowledge that her innocent mistake cost the lives of three people she loved dearly. She has prioritized self-preservation above all else. No remorse.

Perhaps now, as she has been told by Defence 'how to act', when there is mention of the victims and their suffering, she will start weeping: for the Jury to see.
So she will show remorse NOW.
Let us see, the actress at work.

 

[LinasK]

I find this maddening in comparison to her lunch guests...

Key Event
1m ago
Defence says Erin Patterson was truly sick

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy reiterates that his client was in fact sick after the lunch, and attended hospital as her symptoms had not subsided.

"She was not as sick as the other lunch guests, nor did she represent that she was," he says.

He challenges the prosecution's argument that Ms Patterson's elevated vital signs were due to stress.

Mr Mandy says expert evidence told the court that diarrhoea is also a form of physical stress, with the evidence supporting Ms Patterson's claims of illness

Then why were her lab values withing normal range??

 

[MrJ]

Just now
We take another break

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy indicates it might be an appropriate time for a break.

Justice Beale acquieses to his request, and the jury heads out.

Back with more in about 10 minutes.

 

[katydid23]

BBM. Why would knowing how a product was packaged mean that you bought it? Mandy is running out of straws to grasp IMO.

And I think her description of the packaging was something like 'in a clear packaging wrap with a white label and red lettering' ----how many thousands of food items come in clear wrap and white labels?

 

[Lisa4]

I hereby withdraw my comment stating I'd use CM. He is going way too far for me.

 

[LinasK]

And I think her description of the packaging was something like 'in a clear packaging wrap with a white label and red lettering' ----how many thousands of food items come in clear wrap and white labels?

They don't, and I highly doubt ANY grocer is going to sell items with hand-printed labels. (I watch Clarkson's Farm, and they sell farm-table and they print out labels.) That's just sketchy right there. That's on Erin for buying something like that if it's true.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Key Event
Just now
Defence notes prosecution's lack of questions on toxicity

By Judd Boaz

As he has done several times in his closing, Mr Mandy has zoned in on questions that the prosecution did not ask of witnesses.

He challenges the claim by the prosecution that even a little bit of amatoxin consumption would make someone very ill.

"Where's the evidence of that in this case? From any of the toxicologists, liver specialists?" Mr Mandy asks.

"Why wasn't anyone asked that question?"

Victorian toxicologist Dimitri Gerostamoulos told the court during his testimony that a lethal dose was considered to be 0.1 mg per kg of body weight.

Mr. Mandy
You have just quoted from a specialist Toxicologist

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Mr. Mandy
You have just quoted from a specialist Toxicologist

 

[MrJ]

Key Event
Just now
We return to proceedings

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy focuses on a phone coversation between Erin and Simon Patterson following the lunch.

The prosecution alleges Ms Patterson did not ask how her ill relatives were and only focused on her own symptoms, something Mr Patterson told the court he found strange.

Mr Mandy says the prosecution only asked Mr Patterson three questions when interrogating this phone call, and criticised them for building their argument over so few questions.

"That is not a fair representation of that evidence and it's not a fair representation because the prosecution could've asked all sorts of questions about a conversation that was much longer than three questions and answers," Mr Mandy says.

 

[katydid23]

Wanting inlaws' support = wanting free babysitting

IMO

And that whole big 'explanation' was so stupid. We're supposed to believe that Erin was going to tell her in-laws that she was having chemotherapy so they would watch the kids, while she was getting liposuction?

She didn't think anyone would look into it more? Was she going to seriously pretend she had ovarian cancer? She'd come home after lipo treatment and pretend to have a life threatening illness instead?

And then what? She'd have to continue for months to be realistic.

What about her kids? Was she going to tell them she had cancer too?

That whole story is ridiculous.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

View attachment 596309

This must be comedy hour

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Key Event
Just now
We return to proceedings

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy focuses on a phone coversation between Erin and Simon Patterson following the lunch.

The prosecution alleges Ms Patterson did not ask how her ill relatives were and only focused on her own symptoms, something Mr Patterson told the court he found strange.

Mr Mandy says the prosecution only asked Mr Patterson three questions when interrogating this phone call, and criticised them for building their argument over so few questions.

"That is not a fair representation of that evidence and it's not a fair representation because the prosecution could've asked all sorts of questions about a conversation that was much longer than three questions and answers," Mr Mandy says.

"That is not a fair representation of that evidence and it's not a fair representation because the prosecution could've asked all sorts of questions about a conversation that was much longer than three questions and answers," Mr Mandy says.

I hope its finished today..!

 

[MrJ]

Key Event
1m ago
Defence highlights 'turning point' for Erin Patterson.

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy identifies a point in which Erin Patterson began to panic.

He says the conversation Erin recalled where she says her husband asked her if she'd used the dehydrator to poison his parents was a "fulcrum" or "turning point" in her mind.

Simon Patterson rejected ever saying this in his testimony.

But Mr Mandy says this triggered Ms Patterson to start considering what could have occurred.

"Once they have that conversation about the dehydrator, the wheels start turning," Mr Mandy says.

"She knows how ill people are, she knows that [death cap mushrooms] are the possible culprit.

"She starts panicking, and she starts lying at that point."

Mr Mandy says even if Ms Patterson had come clean at the moment, the lunch guests were too far gone and there was "nothing medical professionals could do".

 

[Lisa4]

Mr Mandy,

The liver is the first organ encountered after absorption and is the principal organ affected
The fact Erin's liver function was completely normal, despite the "gastro", is 100% that she did not consume any deathcaps

Do we know if these points were made during the prosecution case?

 

[Woolly]

Key Event
1m ago
Defence highlights 'turning point' for Erin Patterson.

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy says even if Ms Patterson had come clean at the moment, the lunch guests were too far gone and there was "nothing medical professionals could do".

And where is the expert who provided this testimony?

 

[Yh5r]

16:08

Patterson's weight may have played a part in effect of poison, jury heard​

Mr Mandy said Dr Gerostamoulos said poisonings occur much more in Europe than they do in the US and Australia.
Dr Gerostamoulos also said there were various factors which effect 'variation in an outcome' after ingesting poison.
'Not everyone suffers the same… how much poison was in their portion, how evenly spread was the poison we cannot tell,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said other factors included how much death cap poison the body absorbed and whether the person threw up after eating.
Mr Mandy said weight is also a factor.
'And as you know, Erin weighed over 100kg [at the time of the lunch],' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said other factors were age and a person's 'toxic response'.
'Some people are Grade 1, others aren't,' Mr Mandy said.
Dr Rogers said Dr Gerostamoulos was asked if the same people ate the same amount of poison and one survived would there would be 'adverse outcomes' for the survivor.
Mr Mandy said Dr Gerostamoulos said there would 'likely' be adverse outcomes but that 'severity' would depend on the factors previously explained.


16:08

Defence accuses prosecution of 'misleading the jury'​

Mr Mandy again accused Dr Rogers of misleading the jury when summarising expert evidence during her closings.
This was related to the severity of illness a person might suffer when eating the same portion of poison.
Mr Mandy suggested the prosecution had not provided the jury the full story in its final address.

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Why did the defence not invite Dr Gerostamoulos as a witness to testify for them. I'm guessing he was likely either unwilling or the defence didn't want him to be cross examined IMO

Bad look for the defence!

Mr Mandy is not an expert on toxiology and just quoting suitable bits and "cherry picking" (what he has accused the prosecution of) is not going to cut it IMO