VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[MaxDecimus13]

On the bulimia question. If these are the scars said to be bulimia signs, I would disagree based on the pictures and descriptions of "Russell's sign" I've found. They describe wounds to the lower knuckles not to the fingers, and look like this,

View attachment 598686

I would argue that without other evidence there are also multiple other reasons for a couple of cuts on her fingers like this.

The top one, reminds me of an infection I can get just below the nail.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

With regards to the bulimia, and I'm sure it's been answered on here, did the prosecution know it was going to be her testimony prior to her taking the stand?

It just feels like such a major thing in the case that the prosecution are not allowed to attempt rebut. The judge was all about the prosecution proving the case, but if they are not able to ascertain whether she had bulimia at all, or whether it would have been effective in reducing the toxins then that hardly feels like a fair trial.

There could potentially be jurors tomorrow talking about how bulimia reduced her symptoms, but the prosecution seemingly had no opportunity to deal with this claim.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Enough that if they died mysteriously and you were nearby it could be used as a convincing evidence of a motive?

The motive isn't being sought in this case.

 

[JBowie]

The motive isn't being sought in this case.

Yet, the defence spent quite some time trying to convince the jury that there was no motive.

 

[Megnut]

Maybe EP got herself scratched up rooting around for TP in the bush or while mushrooming for DC. Except she doesn't know what 'mushrooming' is so we can't say for sure.

As with any witness, I'd give great weight to corroboration. EP and her newly  minted revealed bulimia doesn’t have even anecdotal corroboration. If I'm a juror, I ask myself, which she have been keeping an eating disorder to herself, perhaps out of embarrassment OR looking at the broader picture, is that another lie to answer a different lie -- admit to a lesser thing to seem credible -- and is merely an invention?

If EP lied about Stage VI ovarian cancer, and gastric bypass surgery, and liposuction, and bulimia, and a linear fraction of BW and 3/4 of an orange cake, why would anyone believe she threw up? Yet she semi successfully turned the page to a discussion of whether she has bulimia and whether she could expel DC toxin via vomit. With no corroborating testimony that she ever did vomit, just her word and also the total evidence of her life-time (one-time) battle with bulimia.

That is a masterclass in something.

JMO

 

[ellyvantelli]

Enough that if they died mysteriously and you were nearby it could be used as a convincing evidence of a motive?

The motive isn't being sought in this case.

Yet, the defence spent quite some time trying to convince the jury that there was no motive.

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Sigh,
Defence 101 - emotional blackmail to the jury: my client had no motive to kill their dearly beloved family/wife/exgirlfriend/husband/subwayuser/concertaudience/presidentialnominee [delete as appropriate]

If a defence lawyer doesn’t at some point say “my client had no reason to do this”, the client should probably demand a refund.

It’s just a cheap easy way to try and distract a jury from the evidence of the case and have them spiralling off down the irrelevant logic rabbit-hole of why anyone should do something as barbaric as murder.
There is never a good motive for murder. And a jury doesn’t need to make one up to decide whether the person holding the murder weapon knew it was a murder weapon or not.

And as the prosecution pointed out there is no need to provide, put forward, or imagine up a “motive” to convict, even if peeps would feel less unsettled if there always was a nice clear one like in all detective dramas.
[edited to correct spelling ]

<modsnip: referenced post/info was removed for discussing WS members instead of just discussing the case>

 

[Baby baby Jane]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ...Extreme Rejection Dysphoria - is a thing, people having extreme responses to “rejection” …. She’s got rejection all over the place - SP refusing the lunch, the “separation”, the in-laws backing away. The long situation of SP living away, but she was still safely married, warm in-laws. Starting with the tax return, It was all falling away. “Separation” often starts the divorce process … possible she thought due to religion this would never happen.But the financial separation happened - humiliating. Even tho it was just on tax return, it was forcing financial arrangements leading to school issues. She was feeling the burn of loss of control, loss of her position in the family. Loss of money.

IMO - she had extreme reaction to these “rejections” and for EP - it was either them or her that needed to exit the world. If they’re gone - she’s not being rejected. She has the upper hand, the power and is not being humiliated any more.

 

[MrJ]

GOOD MORNING TODAY WILL BE VERDICT WATCH

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I just had a thought... is it possible EP (if guilty) was intending to blame one of the victims for poisoning them all - maybe something in the fruit salad? I appreciate we have firmly established the deadly toxin was the DC mushroom powder inside the BWs.

However, at the time, is it possible EP was thinking it would look like some sort of food poisoning or unidentified plant based toxin. Had one person not survived, was her idea to suggest that it was the fruit salad, perhaps saying maybe they'd foraged berries or such?

I know that murders don't make sense but if does seem she'd have a cover story planned.

JMO MOO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Yet, the defence spent quite some time trying to convince the jury that there was no motive.

Yes I know...

 

[Lisa4]

if does seem she'd have a cover story planned.

What if she did but it fell apart..

 

[Moll]

I just had a thought... is it possible EP (if guilty) was intending to blame one of the victims for poisoning them all - maybe something in the fruit salad? I appreciate we have firmly established the deadly toxin was the DC mushroom powder inside the BWs.

However, at the time, is it possible EP was thinking it would look like some sort of food poisoning or unidentified plant based toxin. Had one person not survived, was her idea to suggest that it was the fruit salad, perhaps saying maybe they'd foraged berries or such?

I know that murders don't make sense but if does seem she'd have a cover story planned.

JMO MOO

I don't see the point of making up motives we have no evidence for - this is similar to the cake/gravy theory someone dreamed up yesterday.

The post from ellyvantelli above eloquently explains the pointlessness of speculating on motive.

As she says 'And as the prosecution pointed out there is no need to provide, put forward, or imagine up a “motive” to convict, even if peeps would feel less unsettled if there always was a nice clear one like in all detective dramas.'

 

[Lisa4]

I don't see the point of making up motives we have no evidence for - this is similar to the cake/gravy theory someone dreamed up yesterday.

I do agree. At the same time, anyone's dreamed up theories are going to be as plausible as EP's stories!

 

[Hercule Holmes]

Didn't someone mention a while back that in one photo of Erin we could see scars on her hands which indicated bulimia?

They were from repeated clutching at straws.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't see the point of making up motives we have no evidence for - this is similar to the cake/gravy theory someone dreamed up yesterday.

The post from ellyvantelli above eloquently explains the pointlessness of speculating on motive.

As she says 'And as the prosecution pointed out there is no need to provide, put forward, or imagine up a “motive” to convict, even if peeps would feel less unsettled if there always was a nice clear one like in all detective dramas.'

I know the court doesn't need to find a motivation in order to convict.

However, IMO, setting that to one side, bearing in mind that EP has been described by everyone who's ever known her as extremely intelligent, it would make sense that she had some cover story thought out. I think she'd be super happy to blame something in relation to the victims that had no connection to her food. I wonder if she was planning to tell people that the four were avid foragers and as such could have eaten 'anything' whilst out hiking together or suchlike?

JMO MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Her cut knuckle could be anything - scrubbing the oven, scrubbing the dehydrator, scrubbing oven trays, (very Lady Macbeth!) or gardening - just household jobs and oops abraded knuckles.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Her cut knuckle could be anything - scrubbing the oven, scrubbing the dehydrator, scrubbing oven trays, (very Lady Macbeth!) or gardening - just household jobs and oops abraded knuckles.

Scrubbing her phone records...

 

[Hercule Holmes]

I know the court doesn't need to find a motivation in order to convict.

However, IMO, setting that to one side, bearing in mind that EP has been described by everyone who's ever known her as extremely intelligent, it would make sense that she had some cover story thought out. I think she'd be super happy to blame something in relation to the victims that had no connection to her food. I wonder if she was planning to tell people that the four were avid foragers and as such could have eaten 'anything' whilst out hiking together or suchlike?

JMO MOO

Totally agree, albeit I am the one who "dreamed up the cake/gravy theory".

The post above lumped the theory in with "making up motives we have no evidence for". The theory is nothing to do with motive, it is an entirely separate issue.

Do people really think her plan would have included going through all this trauma to find that it was "her accident"? The way this has panned out, her life is ruined either way. She is not going to be found not guilty (if she is) and have her life carry on unaffected. Everyone, including her own kids, is going to have serious doubts moving forward.

She is (was) too smart to have planned for the finger of blame (even accidental) to have been pointed at her IF everything went as planned. It didn't, because Simon didn't come and the others didn't die before being able to speak to authorities.

There was another part to the plan IMO which we may never know. I've mentioned mushroom gravy brought by a guest. Someone else mentioned fruit salad. You've mentioned 4 avid foragers. It isn't relevant to the verdict, but people are not fully understanding her personality, if they think she was happy for her name to be dragged through the mud for the past 2 years.

 

[BreakingNews]

Erin claimed she was bulimic and threw up her lunch but were dental records shown to prove if she was telling the truth?

Her teeth would show signs if she had decades of bulimia and a dentist would know.

Sorry for my ignorance, but how are teeth connected to bulimia?

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry for my ignorance, but how are teeth connected to bulimia?

"When a person with bulimia engages in the repeated act of self-induced vomiting, teeth are subjected to continual stomach acid exposure. Chronic purging and the resulting presence of hydrochloric acid in the mouth can produce many dental problems.

The acids can wear away the surface of your teeth, exposing tissues below.[2] Your teeth may be sensitive, especially when you drink hot or cold liquids, and they may look glassy and smooth."

Bulimia: Dental Problems Caused By Repeated Vomiting

Teeth may not seem like an indicator of an eating disorder, but many bulimia sufferers are diagnosed by their dentists. They see the enamel damage first.

www.eatingdisorderhope.com