VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't believe for one moment that Erin gave her kids leftover meat that had been anywhere near the Death Caps.

I believe that she gave them a separate serve of meat that she didn't use in the Beef Wellingtons.

I don't see why the kids can't have been asked to a greater degree of specificity about what they were fed. They must know exactly how their food looked and the surviving victim knows what the BW looked like.

To my recollection the son said he was fed meat cut in cubes that tasted delicious. Also the children would surely have known, in what way was this food prepared - was it something reheated or was it something freshly cooked and did you see mummy in the kitchen getting it ready.

JMO MOO

 

[Warshawski]

Her Power of attorney - also best friend - also black tarp crew. IMO

I wonder how close that relationship really is

 

[Lisa4]

Also the children would surely have known, in what way was this food prepared

I personally would say it was quite unlikely they would have known. Unless they were hands-on helping and I doubt that with leftovers.

We all know a Teen on a screen... a bomb could go off and they would just move seats!

 

[Monstradamus]

I personally would say it was quite unlikely they would have known. Unless they were hands-on helping and I doubt that with leftovers.

We all know a Teen on a screen... a bomb could go off and they would just move seats!

Haha yes. Dinner just magically appears on the table in our house, apparently.

 

[Yh5r]

I'm thinking this could go well into next week now.

My bet is still on a verdict tomorrow.

 

[Lisa4]

My bet is still on a verdict tomorrow.

Here's hoping. For the families to be able to move on, whichever way it goes.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Here's hoping. For the families to be able to move on, whichever way it goes.

How does one move on from this? My brother was murdered in 2016 and that was awful. Imagine losing both of your parents and one aunt?

 

[Lisa4]

Hunter Valley bus crash driver to fight 32-year sentence

Brett Andrew Button will argue in court his jail term for a crash that killed 10 people was "manifestly excessive" and the sentencing judge "erred" on two findings.

www.abc.net.au

I hope itt isnt off-topic to refer to this. Been reading up on this terrible tragedy and couldn't help noticing the bus driver's words of apology in this article.

He killed 10 people unintentionally and negligently. He now has a 32year sentence which is so much more than some intentional murderers get here in Australia. I believe he is genuinely heartbroken for the many lives he has terribly affected and will be for the rest of his life.

I don't understand why we did not hear anything even close to an apology like his from the accused...

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The idea that EP would never have killed the guests considering the subsequent scrutiny is easily belied by all the times it has been known to happen.

Exhibit A: Lori Daybell and two other adults killed her own children, buried them in one of their backyards, and then went about their lives as though it never happened and as though they would get away with it.

Killers make dumb decisions everyday, that's why they get caught. It's backwards to try to credit them with innocence for those dumb decisions.

I think when murderers do these outlandish crimes, there's possibly some variables in thinking:


- They don't care. About themselves, the future, their life, others' lives, being in prison or put to death. They've thrown in the towel and are exacting anger / revenge;

- They're profoundly mentally ill and feel compelled by delusion / psychosis;

- They're extreme and fundamental in a religious or spiritual or political way and believe only god can judge them or that they are doing god's work or killing for the greater good;

- They're obsessed, ie a form of OCD / compulsion and get 'tunnel vision' and focus so much on the crime and the eradicating particular people, they 'forget' to do much or any of a cover up;

- They're so filled with rage and anger that their mind is hijacked and rational logic has gone out the window and ditto they forget to do much of a cover up or think through the outcome;

- They believe nobody's looking, nobody's particularly interested, nobody's going to pay attention and alert authorities even though several people may have died or they're on a spree (this can especially happen when the victims are vulnerable - ie recent migrants, or transient, or vagrant, or drug addicted, or very elderly, or street walkers / prostitutes etc on and on;

- They have a personality disorder and a personal history sufficient that they've learned over time they never get consequences from their deceitful actions and they have no moral compass or empathy;

- They have a personality disorder sufficient that they cannot and do not connect 'action and consequence' and 'cause and effect' and are unmanageable and unaccountable people who do what they want when they want;

- They are so grandiose and manipulative and lack empathy to a point they believe anything they do they can easily cover up with lies and everyone will believe them;


Combinations of several in any one person.

JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMOO EP lied at the hospital about "scraped off leftovers" because her plan was imploding.

From what I recall of EP's testimony while being questioned in court, there was no mention of "scraped off leftovers" because she now had all the evidence available. So then went down the track of saying that the leftovers she served weren't technically leftovers from the lunch. And i think @Jess D added that her EP's defence would have advised her not to mention it (the scraped leftovers). Because why, i gather perjury?

That's my interpretation and maybe "incorrect"?

IMO her first cover up lie was to claim there's nothing wrong with anything she served and the proof is that she's OK and so are her children.

This was then conflicted by her other lie that she had also been poorly.

That was then conflicted by yet another lie that she had fed the leftovers to the children but wasn't at all worried about their health.

As the old saying goes - "it's a tangled web we weave when we first practise to deceive"

 

[Detechtive]

How does one move on from this? My brother was murdered in 2016 and that was awful. Imagine losing both of your parents and one aunt?

Gail and Heather's mother lost two daughters on the same day

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Gail and Heather's mother lost two daughters on the same day

Yes, she did. I've never thought of that before...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I think when murderers do these outlandish crimes, there's possibly some variables in thinking:


- They don't care. About themselves, the future, their life, others' lives, being in prison or put to death. They've thrown in the towel and are exacting anger / revenge;

- They're profoundly mentally ill and feel compelled by delusion / psychosis;

- They're extreme and fundamental in a religious or spiritual or political way and believe only god can judge them or that they are doing god's work or killing for the greater good;

- They're obsessed, ie a form of OCD / compulsion and get 'tunnel vision' and focus so much on the crime and the eradicating particular people, they 'forget' to do much or any of a cover up;

- They're so filled with rage and anger that their mind is hijacked and rational logic has gone out the window and ditto they forget to do much of a cover up or think through the outcome;

- They believe nobody's looking, nobody's particularly interested, nobody's going to pay attention and alert authorities even though several people may have died or they're on a spree (this can especially happen when the victims are vulnerable - ie recent migrants, or transient, or vagrant, or drug addicted, or very elderly, or street walkers / prostitutes etc on and on;

- They have a personality disorder and a personal history sufficient that they've learned over time they never get consequences from their deceitful actions and they have no moral compass or empathy;

- They have a personality disorder sufficient that they cannot and do not connect 'action and consequence' and 'cause and effect' and are unmanageable and unaccountable people who do what they want when they want;

- They are so grandiose and manipulative and lack empathy to a point they believe anything they do they can easily cover up with lies and everyone will believe them;


Combinations of several in any one person.

JMO MOO

I think one or more of the points you made likely applies to EP. You can't use rationale with people who commit murder. A few people on this forum seem to think that because Erin is intelligent, that she would have considered how difficult it would have been to avoid suspicion after poisoning 4 people, killing 3. The prisons are full of people who thought that they would get away with murder. Admittedly this is an unusual case, but I really do think that Erin has an undiagnosed (as far as we know) personality/mental disorder which allowed her to commit this dreadful crime without putting enough thought into the outcome.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Gail and Heather's mother lost two daughters on the same day

Are their parents still alive. If so, that's incomprehensible and brutal to subject such elderly people to that horror and loss

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think one or more of the points you made likely applies to EP. You can't use rationale with people who commit murder. A few people on this forum seem to think that because Erin is intelligent, that she would have considered how difficult it would have been to avoid suspicion after poisoning 4 people, killing 3. The prisons are full of people who thought that they would get away with murder. Admittedly this is an unusual case, but I really do think that Erin has an undiagnosed (as far as we know) personality/mental disorder which allowed her to commit this dreadful crime without putting enough thought into the outcome.

100% agree - I think EP was a mixture. Driven by hate, revenge and vengeance plans. Feeling superior and grandiose and I reckon she's probably got away with a vast amount of dishonest, manipulative and straight up deranged behaviour all her life without being challenged and having never had much or any consequences. Defiant, dishonest, arrogant, controlling. A game she's probably always 'won' at with her husband, friends, neighbours, colleagues, relatives, children.

Due to personality disorder(s) and lack of empathy / moral compass and arrogance, she IMO probably imagined she'd lie and front her way out of this as she's always done.

I do think she wasn't expecting the extreme sudden deaths and also is blindsided by SP accusing her of poisoning. I expect SP has changed quite a lot in recent years, using boundaries and moving away from her, and this was what destabilised her in the first place and also meant she didn't account for his new way of being in her plan / lack of plan.

I wonder if she's killed anyone before? Anyone vulnerable, isolated, alone who was found deceased after a sudden illness? Maybe an elderly person or suchlike.

JMO MOO

 

[Detective Willy]

I don’t think innocent people tell lie after lie after lie. If I was on the jury, I would not take very long to reach my verdict.

 

[arrogantcat]

I'm sure the Prosecution have taken notes, just like EP. I'm thinking it will be a little different if there is a Retrial.

The real issue is that they are missing that one big irrefutable piece of evidence that makes a case a slam dunk.

They have a lot, but much of it, eg the cell phone data pings, isn’t robust enough to fully withstand the defence picking holes in it — which Mandy did a great job of IMO.

I wonder if there are pieces of evidence, such as relating to her alleged poisoning of SP, that could be brought in a retrial to swing the balance.

I myself find I’m stuck in a middle limbo land right now of feeling personally convinced she did it, but not entirely convinced the prosecution have proven it beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Detechtive]

Are their parents still alive. If so, that's incomprehensible and brutal to subject such elderly people to that horror and loss

Pretty sure their mother was still alive when they died. She was in her late 90's.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The real issue is that they are missing that one big irrefutable piece of evidence that makes a case a slam dunk.

They have a lot, but much of it, eg the cell phone data pings, isn’t robust enough to fully withstand the defence picking holes in it — which Mandy did a great job of IMO.

I wonder if there are pieces of evidence, such as relating to her alleged poisoning of SP, that could be brought in a retrial to swing the balance.

I myself find I’m stuck in a middle limbo land right now of feeling personally convinced she did it, but not entirely convinced the prosecution have proven it beyond reasonable doubt.

There probably is, but I don't think they want to distract with bringing in what happened to Simon in the past, sadly.

 

[Detechtive]