VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Deleted member 363451]

I would like to know where she apparently read that DCs are not found in Gippsland.

If true that she read it somewhere, should not this have been in defence evidence?

Was it refuted by an expert witness? Sorry I cannot recall. Will take a minute to research now.

It's another lie.

 

[Lisa4]

Okay yes it was refuted by the mushroom man Dr Tom


I decided to have a quick look for general public health warnings re mushrooms in Victoria and well... wow. take a read of this article from April 2022.

(A few screenshots below, click link to read it all)

Poisonous mushroom warning issued for Victorians and their pets

Wild mushrooms are popping up across Victoria and eating them could put you and your four-legged pal at risk of serious illness or death.

www.abc.net.au

 

[jesse]

Far be it from me to criticize another country’s legal system, but I find this incredibly lengthy summary and interpretation of the proceedings mind-blowing, especially with the bending over backwards to give EP the benefit of every doubt.

I feel this judge has raised the bar from asking the jury to convict beyond a reasonable doubt to asking them to convict only if there is no, none, absolutely zero doubt whatsoever, including even if they think there is a 0.00000001 chance an alien came down and put death cap mushrooms in the lunch.

Before these instructions, I was pretty sure the jury would convict - now, I will be shocked if they do.

I hope I’m wrong.

I completely agree. I'm shocked that after a lengthy trial, the judge is allowed to rehash EVERYTHING but in his words. We all have biases, but his is now used to put his thumb on the scales of justice (not intentionally, but still, that's what happens).

I'm genuinely stunned.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Okay yes it was refuted by the mushroom man Dr Tom


I decided to have a quick look for general public health warnings re mushrooms in Victoria and well... wow. take a read of this article from April 2022.

(A few screenshots below, click link to read it all)

Poisonous mushroom warning issued for Victorians and their pets

Wild mushrooms are popping up across Victoria and eating them could put you and your four-legged pal at risk of serious illness or death.

www.abc.net.au

View attachment 598247

View attachment 598248

View attachment 598251

Erin said that she picked all of the mushrooms on her property as she didn't want her dog to eat them and get sick and yet she'd have people believe that she picked Death Caps and put them in her meal without researching them first. Pull the other one...

 

[jesse]

In Australia, the defence is required to disclose expert evidence they intend to rely on at trial, and must provide a copy of any expert report to the prosecution before the trial begins. This is part of the pre-trial disclosure regime, aimed at ensuring fairness, transparency, and efficiency in criminal proceedings.

So, in some cases, like this one, it's probably best not to try to engage expert witnesses who might come to the same conclusion as the prosecution, IMO.

See, I understand why the prosecution would have to do this, but not the defense.

 

[Kemug]

I am beginning to wonder if Judge Beale has reached his eminent position by being so long-winded that people think he just has to be really really intelligent. MOO

 

[drsleuth]

I'm not in a postion to do the updates this morning. If anyone else can that would be great.

 

[SouthAussie]

"One study has even shown that a judge’s instructions may only have an effect on the jury’s decision when delivered at the commencement of the trial.
It is suggested that this is because jurors will usually have already assessed the evidence by the time the judge delivers his or her final charge, and will not be able to retrospectively evaluate and judge the evidence in accordance with instructions which are first given at that late stage"

Bench Book Criminal Charge Book - - Judicial College of Victoria

 

[jesse]

"One study has even shown that a judge’s instructions may only have an effect on the jury’s decision when delivered at the commencement of the trial.
It is suggested that this is because jurors will usually have already assessed the evidence by the time the judge delivers his or her final charge, and will not be able to retrospectively evaluate and judge the evidence in accordance with instructions which are first given at that late stage"

Bench Book Criminal Charge Book - - Judicial College of Victoria

How can that be true though, unless every jury is made up of men and women who walk into the jury room with their mind made up? If debate and discussion can influence jurors why wouldn't a judge's instructions?

 

[SouthAussie]

How can that be true though, unless every jury is made up of men and women who walk into the jury room with their mind made up? If debate and discussion can influence jurors why wouldn't a judge's instructions?

Are the judge's directions affecting anyone here's opinion, having now heard the allowable evidence? Doesn't seem so.

I guess they are saying it is the same with a jury. If a judge gives their directions at the end of the trial, as opposed to at the beginning.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

The judge begins today's proceedings by turning briefly to one of those matters: the dumping of a dehydrator.

He reminds the jury that in an interview Ms Patterson gave to police, "she said she lied when she told the police she never dehydrated food and said she didn't own a dehydrator".

"She told you in relation to those lies, it was a 'stupid, knee-jerk reaction to just dig deeper and keep lying'," the judge said.

******

The judge has now moved to the last alleged instance of incrimating conduct: Erin Patterson allegedly faking illness after the fatal beef Wellington lunch.

Justice Beale begins by taking the jury through what one of Ms Patterson's children said about the accused's behaviour after the lunch.

We hear that on the following day, a Sunday, Ms Patterson reportedly told her son she "had to go to the toilet a few times during the night" and said she was concerned about attending church and spreading the illness.

*****

The judge turns next to the symptoms Erin Patterson reported to health staff after the lunch.

We revisit evidence from nurse Kylie Ashton that Ms Patterson mentioned nausea, diarrhoea and an elevated heart rate on the evening of July 29.

Then there is the issue of a stool sample Ms Patterson was later asked to provide in hospital. There's been much detail on this during the trial.

The judge reminds the jury of health staff evidence that one sample she provided was "still watery, clear, yellow in colour; looks like urine" but the patient said it was a stool.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

The judge is going into detail now about obvservations health workers made about Erin Patterson's condition in the days after the lunch.

There is talk of symptoms including tenderness in her abdomen and a heart rate that began at about 140 beats per minute, but settled to about 100 beats per minute over the course of two hours.

*****

Next we hear from a doctor who saw Erin Patterson in a hospital emergency department. The judge says the accused reported persistent nausea and diarrhoea at that point.

Justice Beale reminds the jury of the doctor's evidence that Ms Patterson "thought she had food poisoning from the beef Wellington she had prepared and consumed at about midday on the Saturday".

Under cross-examination, the doctor said their notes recorded the accused saying her diarrhoea was "initially brown in colour, explosive, every 10 minutes" and became "watery clear" by the Sunday after the lunch.

*****

The judge then briefly revists the evidence of a child protection officer, Katrina Cripps, who spoke with Erin Patterson in hospital on the afternoon of August 1.

We're told that Ms Patterson began feeling unwell on the Saturday afternoon.

*****

The judge turns his attention to evidence the trial heard about poisoning. We hear that variations in the amount of toxins consumed, individual "toxic tolerances", general health, age and weight can influence an individual's response to toxic substances.

Ms Patterson's health after the lunch then returns to the spotlight.

We hear detail from the accused's evidence-in-chief about experiencing frequent diarrhoea on the evening after the lunch, before taking immodium and dozing off at about 5 or 6 o'clock in the morning.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

Justice Beale is going into detail about what Erin Patterson said under cross-examination when asked about her immediate family's accounts of her health after the lunch.

He's giving a forensic account of which recollections Ms Patterson did and didn't agree with.

We are reminded of evidence that her son did not see her going to the toilet frequently on the Sunday morning, but agreed that Ms Patterson told him they might not attend church that day.

Her son said his mother was "quite persistent" about attending his flying lesson, and Ms Patterson agreed with that, the judge says.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Franerti]

Her son said his mother was "quite persistent" about attending his flying lesson, and Ms Patterson agreed with that, the judge says.

I bet she was! Probably needed somewhere to dump a phone, or a leftover Beef Wellington, or something incriminating during her 9 second tidy up in the toilet - allegedly!

IMO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I bet she was! Probably needed somewhere to dump a phone, or a leftover Beef Wellington, or something incriminating during her 9 second tidy up in the toilet - allegedly!

IMO

Bingo!

 

[Susjay]

I think the problem with judge Beale's directions, such as this one, is it is in favour of the defence. His directions are not balanced.

For this particular direction, he neglected to add that it may not even be the case that she normally forages for wild mushrooms. i.e He should have informed the jury that they are the judge of whether Erin had normally foraged for mushrooms or not, in the same way he informed the jury that they are the judge of the evidence and opinions from expert witnesses. IMO.

Think part of our problem is we are reading reports of what’s being explained by Judge, rather than hearing what is actually being said word for word. Listened to some of “Nights with Ping” podcast last night and Ping was reading out loud what was actually said. Provides a much better understanding of points.

 

[Susjay]

I'm old enough to remember when this was the expectation for last Tuesday.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The jury has been told Justice Christopher Beale won't commence his instructions to the jury until Monday and it may still be going into Wednesday.

'But with the wind in my back it may finish Tuesday afternoon,' Justice Beale said.

Think the wind at his back was blown off course by some of the legal discussions that went on with prosecution and defence.

 

[SouthAussie]

The judge then turns to what the prosecution argued about Erin Patterson's health in the days after the lunch.

In short, prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC argued Ms Patterson wasn't suffering from death cap mushroom poisoning at all, and only tried to feign that was the case because she would be given away otherwise.

Among these is the fact that the accused chose to drive her son to Tyabb for a flying lesson at a time she claimed to be experiencing symptoms.

Ms Patterson also told the court that she made an emergency bush toilet stop during that drive, but the trial heard her son had no recollection of that event.

"If his mum had made an emergency stop in the bush to go to the toilet, he would remember that," the judge said, summarising the prosecution argument.

"She didn't have diarrhoea at all," the judge says, recapping that case.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The jury is again being reminded about Patterson’s ‘bush poo’.

She claimed to have taken a dump in scrub on the side of the road on the way home from Tyabb.

Justice Beale reminded the jury of the nine-second footage Patterson made at the BP Caldermeade toilet where she claimed she dumped a doggy bag of her bush poo.

Patterson claimed to have later eaten a bowl of cereal and said she went to bed about 10-11pm and felt sick about 1-2am.

The jury heard Patterson claimed water was ‘going straight through her’.
Patterson, under evidence, said she didn’t agree with some of what her son told police.

The jury previously heard the son said he couldn’t recall her mum stopping for a bush poo.

Patterson also claimed she was ‘worried about pooing her pants’.

On the Saturday evening immediately after the lunch Patterson said she drove her son’s friend home but stayed in the car because it acted ‘like a cork’ to stop her from pooing herself

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Susjay]

Listening to today’s summary on various podcasts … found self wondering what eas the point of this trial & jury? The judge seems to be overstepping …
For example -
Seems he was telling jury why Erin disposed of the dehydrator without mentioning that SP DENIED asking her if she used it poison his family.

IMO he is putting pressure of the jury to see evidence the way HE does. If I were on jury I would be thinking “what the duck is the point of my sitting here for 10 weeks when Judgy Judge is telling me what to think?!?!?” I think it’s HE who is be swayed by emotion.

Don’t forget you are reading summaries of points in media. When I listened to “Nights with Ping” podcast he actually read what Judge was saying word for word - it came over quite differently.