VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Smelly Squirrel]

Possible is not the same as reasonable.

Don’t forget you are reading summaries of points in media. When I listened to “Nights with Ping” podcast he actually read what Judge was saying word for word - it came over quite differently.

How does he have word for word?

 

[Susjay]

Possible is not the same as reasonable.


How does he have word for word?

Don’t know how he has word for word, but he has been talking about being with other media in overflow. Not sure. I really don’t know much about his podcast but listened last night because a poster on here recommended it.

 

[katydid23]

It happens in Victoria. All names put into a hat and 2 names are pulled out who leave before deliberation starts.
In Qld, the system is quite different and I believe fairer. The first 12 jurors to be empaneled are the jury. Additional people empaneled are after that are the extras, who don't get to deliberate if all 12 are still there.

I don't really like the system in Qld, where the first 12 are empaneled. That means everyone knows the last few are the extras---are the extras going to pay as much attention all the way through if thy know they probably don't need to?

 

[katydid23]

Don’t know how he has word for word, but he has been talking about being with other media in overflow. Not sure. I really don’t know much about his podcast but listened last night because a poster on here recommended it.

I think the media are in an overflow room and can type up notes. I bet they work in groups---and compare notes and put all their quotes together?

 

[Kemug]

Are the judge's directions affecting anyone here's opinion, having now heard the allowable evidence? Doesn't seem so.

I guess they are saying it is the same with a jury. If a judge gives their directions at the end of the trial, as opposed to at the beginning.

imo

It is just making me one very cross bunny.

 

[Kemug]

The judge begins today's proceedings by turning briefly to one of those matters: the dumping of a dehydrator.

He reminds the jury that in an interview Ms Patterson gave to police, "she said she lied when she told the police she never dehydrated food and said she didn't own a dehydrator".

"She told you in relation to those lies, it was a 'stupid, knee-jerk reaction to just dig deeper and keep lying'," the judge said.

RSBM
She said she lied about the dehydrator, therefore she's not a dishonest person. Yeah, right. Ok then.

 

[katydid23]

Are the judge's directions affecting anyone here's opinion, having now heard the allowable evidence? Doesn't seem so.

I guess they are saying it is the same with a jury. If a judge gives their directions at the end of the trial, as opposed to at the beginning.

I would generally agree with that but the instructions seem to include 'warnings' about not being fooled by compassion or sympathy, and not being fooled by the prosecutions arguments and not holding EP responsible for her lies because she just panicked. etc etc

imo

The judge is going into detail now about obvservations health workers made about Erin Patterson's condition in the days after the lunch.

There is talk of symptoms including tenderness in her abdomen and a heart rate that began at about 140 beats per minute, but settled to about 100 beats per minute over the course of two hours.

Did Judge B mention that being questioned about the poisoning of one's lunch guests might bring on a rapid heart beat?

*****

Next we hear from a doctor who saw Erin Patterson in a hospital emergency department. The judge says the accused reported persistent nausea and diarrhoea at that point.

Justice Beale reminds the jury of the doctor's evidence that Ms Patterson "thought she had food poisoning from the beef Wellington she had prepared and consumed at about midday on the Saturday".

Under cross-examination, the doctor said their notes recorded the accused saying her diarrhoea was "initially brown in colour, explosive, every 10 minutes" and became "watery clear" by the Sunday after the lunch.

*****

Whose evidence was it that said Erin had explosive poo every ten minutes? Nothing but her honourable word?

The judge then briefly revists the evidence of a child protection officer, Katrina Cripps, who spoke with Erin Patterson in hospital on the afternoon of August 1.

We're told that Ms Patterson began feeling unwell on the Saturday afternoon.

Did the judge point out that none of the other victims began feeling unwell by Saturday afternoon?

*****

The judge turns his attention to evidence the trial heard about poisoning. We hear that variations in the amount of toxins consumed, individual "toxic tolerances", general health, age and weight can influence an individual's response to toxic substances.

Ms Patterson's health after the lunch then returns to the spotlight.

We hear detail from the accused's evidence-in-chief about experiencing frequent diarrhoea on the evening after the lunch, before taking immodium and dozing off at about 5 or 6 o'clock in the morning.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

Does the judge discuss how much weight to give this evidence, which comes straight out of EP's mouth?

 

[SouthAussie]

The judge is delving deeper into prosecutor Nanette Rogers' argument that Erin Patterson did not suffer death cap mushroom poisoning.

Justice Beale is retuning to evidence that one doctor said Ms Patterson "did not look unwell" when she was being cannulated and looked well during an ambulance trip.

"Not one medical witness, Dr Rogers argues, observed her to be unwell, certainly not sick with death cap mushroom poisoning," the judge says.

"Compare that with the experience of the lunch guests."

We hear that all guests stopped being able to tolerate fluid.

We hear that the four of them were eventually placed on life support in an "advanced state" of multiple organ failure.

*****

This is the question Justice Beale is touching upon as he revisits evidence from a toxicology expert.

That expert said that different outcomes are possible from the same meal, as it's "very likely" the distribution of mushrooms throughout the paste would be uneven. Also, Erin Patterson was younger than her guests and weighed about 100 kilograms.

The expert said they would expect "some" adverse outcomes from the survivor of the meal.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

We've reached a critical moment where the judge is providing the jury with instructions in relation to the alleged incriminating conduct.

"It includes, as you know, alleged lies," he says.

"I will concenctrate on the alleged lies for a moment, because there are two ways you can use them if you find there were lies. And there were some admitted lies."

The law says you can use the accused's lies to assess her credibility, the judge says. He tells jury members they can use that assessment to decide whether they believe other things she said.

"That is not to say just because you find the accused lied about one matter, you must also find she has been lying about everything else," he says.

He warns them not to reason that just because she lied, she must be guilty.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

The judge tells the jury the second way it can use the alleged lies that the proseuction argues constitute incriminating conduct as implied evidence of guilt.

Justice Beale tells the jury they can only take that path if they find Erin Patterson told an untruth and the only reasonable explanation was that she committed the offences she's been charged with.

The jury is warned to consider all of the evidence before it.

In relation to the other actions that the prosecution relies on as incriminating conduct, the judge says, the same principles of law apply.

He tells the jury they can only use those instances as implied admissions of guilt if they believe the only reasonable explanation of that conduct is that Ms Patterson committed the offences.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

A technical issue brings the hearing to a slightly early finish​

Justice Beale is going into a legal concept called "credit lies" when there's a technological hiccup.

"I've put in some information on my desktop which doesn't seem to have synced to this device," he tells the jury.

"I'm missing [defence barrister] Mr Mandy's arguments so I'll stop."

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

Directions will resume on Monday​

Justice Beale tells the jury he expects to finish his directions on Monday, when he'll deal with the issues they have to decide in the case.

"Don’t let anybody get in your ear over the weekend," he tells the jurors.

"Only discuss this case with your fellow jurors in the privacy of the jury room."

The jury is then sent out for the weekend.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lisa4]

"I've put in some information on my desktop which doesn't seem to have synced to this device," he tells the jury.

Oh dear. I hope no one has remotely factory reset his device.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

The jury heard no evidence about whether Patterson's children would become ill if they ate the leftover meat from the beef wellingtons with the mushrooms and pastry scraped off, Beale said.

“No expert was asked if the mushroom paste and pastry has been scraped off the meat would the children, if served the meat, have experienced some symptoms,” he said.

The judge said Ms Patterson had given evidence that she fed leftovers with the mushrooms and pastry scraped off

“You have no evidence that would be the case ... I direct you to disregard that, you would be speculating if you went down that path.”


BUT JUSTICE BEALE

In separate pre-recorded interviews, the boy and his sister said that night, Ms Patterson told them they would be eating leftovers from lunch the previous day.

They described it as consisting of beef, mashed potatoes and green beans.

"It was very soft and it was probably some of the best meat I've ever had," the boy said.


" I cut it up into cubes and ate it'


Does Justice Beale realise the discrepancies in the evidence given??

So no expert is needed, because it was a different meal her children had eaten..!!

Erin Patterson was building Lego hours after serving deadly meal, court hears

Erin Patterson's triple-murder trial has been played a police interview filmed with her son weeks after a beef Wellington lunch which led to the deaths of three people.

www.abc.net.au

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-judge-set-to-continue-address-on-mushroom-cooks-alleged-incriminating-conduct/news-story/350e9e0db536328e2cf605e3d86f3b0f

 

[katydid23]

The judge is delving deeper into prosecutor Nanette Rogers' argument that Erin Patterson did not suffer death cap mushroom poisoning.

Justice Beale is retuning to evidence that one doctor said Ms Patterson "did not look unwell" when she was being cannulated and looked well during an ambulance trip.

"Not one medical witness, Dr Rogers argues, observed her to be unwell, certainly not sick with death cap mushroom poisoning," the judge says.

"Compare that with the experience of the lunch guests."

We hear that all guests stopped being able to tolerate fluid.

We hear that the four of them were eventually placed on life support in an "advanced state" of multiple organ failure.

*****

This is the question Justice Beale is touching upon as he revisits evidence from a toxicology expert.

That expert said that different outcomes are possible from the same meal, as it's "very likely" the distribution of mushrooms throughout the paste would be uneven. Also, Erin Patterson was younger than her guests and weighed about 100 kilograms.

THIS^^^ is speculation by the court. WHY would we expect even distribution of the mushrooms if they were potentially in powdered form?

The expert said they would expect "some" adverse outcomes from the survivor of the meal.

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

Before the end of Friday's proceedings, Justice Beale gave some information about what will be included in the final parts of his directions.

"I will be focusing on evidence and arguments that haven’t featured in the first part of the charge," he said.

He said the second part of his directions will continue to address "issues in this case, and the evidence and arguments that bear upon those issues".

Justice Beale then said the third part will be "mercifully brief".

Judge recaps Erin Patterson's evidence as triple-murder trial nears end — as it happened

Justice Christopher Beale is continuing his instructions to the jury in Erin Patterson's murder trial. Ms Patterson is accused of killing three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington containing death cap mushrooms. Follow the proceedings as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Susjay]

THIS^^^ is speculation by the court. WHY would we expect even distribution of the mushrooms if they were potentially in powdered form?

I wondered about the even distribution thing as well. We heard about the blitzing to go into the children’s brownies. Did we actually hear how the dried mushrooms that were dried and then redried were mixed in? Chopped or blitzed? It’s pretty bamboozling to keep track of all this evidence.

 

[Megnut]

The jury is again being reminded about Patterson’s ‘bush poo’.

She claimed to have taken a dump in scrub on the side of the road on the way home from Tyabb.

Justice Beale reminded the jury of the nine-second footage Patterson made at the BP Caldermeade toilet where she claimed she dumped a doggy bag of her bush poo.

Patterson claimed to have later eaten a bowl of cereal and said she went to bed about 10-11pm and felt sick about 1-2am.

The jury heard Patterson claimed water was ‘going straight through her’.
Patterson, under evidence, said she didn’t agree with some of what her son told police.

The jury previously heard the son said he couldn’t recall her mum stopping for a bush poo.

Patterson also claimed she was ‘worried about pooing her pants’.

On the Saturday evening immediately after the lunch Patterson said she drove her son’s friend home but stayed in the car because it acted ‘like a cork’ to stop her from pooing herself

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

When the judge went to judge school, I bet there were words he never imagined he'd one day have to string together.

How we all wish he didn't have to now.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I wondered about the even distribution thing as well. We heard about the blitzing to go into the children’s brownies. Did we actually hear how the dried mushrooms that were dried and then redried were mixed in? Chopped or blitzed? It’s pretty bamboozling to keep track of all this evidence.

Erin said ....


"So I put them in, like a little … strainer with a handle … and just roughly poured water over them to get the crispness out of them.

"I chopped them up and I, like, sprinkled them over the duxelle and pushed them in with an egg flip."

Erin Patterson's week on the stand in her mushroom murder trial

The 50-year-old, who has pleaded not guilty to three charges of murder and one of attempted murder, admitted several times she had used lies and exaggeration in the past.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks for posting the updates today SA