Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #2

[Charlot123]

I don’t think anyone would at this point.
And I really do think the dying person must have said something to the effect that, “this wasn’t an accident; she poisoned us.”
What else could have so alarmed the paramedic that he reported it to law enforcement?
MOO

Could be anything, starting from "I didn't like the flavor of that Beef Wellington" and ending with "whiskey had an odd taste".

 

[jepop]

Moo all the additions to the dried mushrooms would be enough to soften them for the duxelles. Butter etc. not that I’m convinced I believe there were dried mushrooms.

Moo The dehydrator could have been used on the button/supermarket mushrooms (and/or maybe the ‘you know what’s) to take most of the moisture out of them but not dry them out completely. IMO

Good thought. Didn't cross my mind that there is a partial dehydrate option there.

 

[Charlot123]

Here is an interesting article about an antidote.

Antidote Discovered for Lethal “Death Cap” Mushroom Poisoning

A new study has shown that a commonly used medical dye acts as an antidote for poisoning by the “death cap” mushroom.

www.technologynetworks.com

The article was published in May of 2023. Since EP was interested in mushroom foraging, could she have read it? The dye is easy to get. Any chance EP could have used it as an antidote? To have some symptoms, but minimal ones?

 

[JLZ]

Here is an interesting article about an antidote.

Antidote Discovered for Lethal “Death Cap” Mushroom Poisoning

A new study has shown that a commonly used medical dye acts as an antidote for poisoning by the “death cap” mushroom.

www.technologynetworks.com

The article was published in May of 2023. Since EP was interested in mushroom foraging, could she have read it? The dye is easy to get. Any chance EP could have used it as an antidote? To have some symptoms, but minimal ones?

Half the mice who took the antidote died anyway.

 

[Charlot123]

IMO it’s one of two things
A) she did cook them intending to just inconvenience them
B) her ex planted them
Thinking she’d eat them but pulled out when he heard what was on the menu

I was asking the same questions. Some of S's comments sound odd. Both S and E could have interest in getting rid of the partner. I also wonder how S's church regards the divorce?

However, for S., given his recent health issue, it would have been so easy to come and refuse food. "I am still nauseated after surgery". If he planted them, he'd know she would use them unknowingly, so no fear of her trying to poison him with something else if he refused mushrooms.. JMO, I don't think it was S. who planted them.

He loves the kids, they say. Planting poison in the house means risking kids' lives.

Of course, a setup during which EP stands accused of poison might be advantageous for S, or she could get poisoned too, but would he willingly sacrifice four people, his parents, aunt and uncle? I doubt it.

I think he was afraid of E, this is all. Especially E. who just heard a "no" for an answer. He sent his family as negotiators. He probably felt E wouldn't be after her in-laws.

 

[Charlot123]

I hope I can post this article as it was mentioned already.

What concerns me: not the kids' drawings or writings. The handwriting is so stable, no pre-school or elementary school kids would have such adult handwriting. Also, the painting is very organized. My opinion: maybe the drawings came from kids, but even this i doubt. The handwriting belongs to an adult. Too steady hand.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/death-wall-inside-mushroom-chefs-house/news-story/a879b2505a32b22dc16214201659dab4

 

[gitana1]

Death can ensue seven to 10 days after mushroom ingestion.

What happens when you eat a death cap mushroom?

The deaths of three Victorians after a Saturday lunch in the small town of Leongatha sent shock waves through the community, but also shone the spotlight on one of the most poisonous organisms on earth.

www.abc.net.au

More in the article.

Yes, apparently.

This woman died four days after eating poisonous mushrooms:


https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/OAKLAND-Death-cap-claims-one-life-Woman-2668223.php


In this case, one woman died the next day, another woman died two days later, a man died 10 days later and another woman died around 20 days later:

Mushrooms Kill Fourth California Senior; U.S. Cases on Rise

 

[Amalgam]

Suppose (edible) dried mushrooms were stored in a container that had previously held amanitas. The container might still hold amanita spores, correct? Could amanitas begin to grow afresh in the dried mushroom base?

Amanita spores could certainly remain within a container that previously held dry amanita mushroom material.

That said, the chances of ending up with a dangerous quantity of amatoxins as a result of said spores growing in the jar using some other dried mushroom (or other foodstuff) is essentially nil.

For the spores to start growing they need to remain moist. Then for the resulting mycelium to survive and grow the moisture must remain and fresh air exchange will be needed. The mycelium would also need to outcompete any other common moulds and bacteria that would be competing to grow in the moist mushroom matter. Getting to this point is unlikely in the extreme (essentially impossible) and will not be dangerously poisonous, given the mycelium only produces 10% of the amount of amatoxin by weight as compared to fruiting bodies (ie actual mushrooms).

To get from residual spores all the way to actual mushrooms is simply out of the question in this scenario.

edit : fixed typo

 

[Amalgam]

Here is an interesting article about an antidote.

Antidote Discovered for Lethal “Death Cap” Mushroom Poisoning

A new study has shown that a commonly used medical dye acts as an antidote for poisoning by the “death cap” mushroom.

www.technologynetworks.com

The article was published in May of 2023. Since EP was interested in mushroom foraging, could she have read it? The dye is easy to get. Any chance EP could have used it as an antidote? To have some symptoms, but minimal ones?

I don’t think there is any chance that EP used this antidote.

The research is recent, the antidote candidates mechanism of action is poorly understood and was only successful in saving 50% of test subjects.

Furthermore, the antidote needs to be injected, which is beyond many peoples ability.

IF she ate poisoned food herself, EP would’ve had far better odds simply forcing herself to vomit it up at the first available opportunity and would likely avoid any serious consequences as a result.

 

[quiza]

I hope I can post this article as it was mentioned already.

What concerns me: not the kids' drawings or writings. The handwriting is so stable, no pre-school or elementary school kids would have such adult handwriting. Also, the painting is very organized. My opinion: maybe the drawings came from kids, but even this i doubt. The handwriting belongs to an adult. Too steady hand.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/death-wall-inside-mushroom-chefs-house/news-story/a879b2505a32b22dc16214201659dab4

I had thought the same thing and in looking at what I assume to be the children's height markers to the left of the drawings, the writing did seem to match. Imo

 

[LacieL]

Reading Simon’s online posting, which granted is focused on photography and weirdly journalists, I am left scratching my head about what happened to their marriage.

My interpretation of how Simon comes across, based on <modsnip> what we’ve read mostly in the DM (potentially it’s inaccurate!) is someone who is religious and pretty conservative. It seems like he was in a great position. Traveling frequently with his family and also taking solo photography trips. Earning enough as a Civil Engineer to fund this and a wife at home with the kids leaving plenty of time for his hobbies.

I think maybe Erin was the one who initiated the break up? I can’t help but wonder if her inheritance gave her confidence to leave?

Something just isn’t right. I think something serious is behind their relationship break down. They (he in particular) don’t seem like the kind of people to divorce. They remind me of my parents who I grew up hearing say that they would kill each other before divorcing (hot tip: don’t say things like that in front of children).

Purely speculation.

 

[jepop]

Reading Simon’s online posting, which granted is focused on photography and weirdly journalists, I am left scratching my head about what happened to their marriage.

My interpretation of how Simon comes across, based on <modsnip> what we’ve read mostly in the DM (potentially it’s inaccurate!) is someone who is religious and pretty conservative. It seems like he was in a great position. Traveling frequently with his family and also taking solo photography trips. Earning enough as a Civil Engineer to fund this and a wife at home with the kids leaving plenty of time for his hobbies.

I think maybe Erin was the one who initiated the break up? I can’t help but wonder if her inheritance gave her confidence to leave?

Something just isn’t right. I think something serious is behind their relationship break down. They (he in particular) don’t seem like the kind of people to divorce. They remind me of my parents who I grew up hearing say that they would kill each other before divorcing (hot tip: don’t say things like that in front of children).

Purely speculation.

I've had similar thoughts. Speculation ofcourse, but the dynamics of most relationships are usually far more complex than what appears on the surface to outsiders. Moo

 

[jjenny]

Reading Simon’s online posting, which granted is focused on photography and weirdly journalists, I am left scratching my head about what happened to their marriage.

My interpretation of how Simon comes across, based on <modsnip> what we’ve read mostly in the DM (potentially it’s inaccurate!) is someone who is religious and pretty conservative. It seems like he was in a great position. Traveling frequently with his family and also taking solo photography trips. Earning enough as a Civil Engineer to fund this and a wife at home with the kids leaving plenty of time for his hobbies.

I think maybe Erin was the one who initiated the break up? I can’t help but wonder if her inheritance gave her confidence to leave?

Something just isn’t right. I think something serious is behind their relationship break down. They (he in particular) don’t seem like the kind of people to divorce. They remind me of my parents who I grew up hearing say that they would kill each other before divorcing (hot tip: don’t say things like that in front of children).

Purely speculation.

He died very sick and almost died about a year ago. Spend time in a hospital. Intestinal problems. So maybe this is the exact way she felt about the divorce.

 

[Kemug]

I haven’t followed the case closely—what may be the motive if this was intentional? I understand her ex-husband was supposed to have been there, so he may have been a potential target. But why not order pizza if your main intended victim canceled?

If I was invited to lunch, but when someone cancelled the hostess said oh well then, I won't bother cooking for the rest of you, we'll just get pizza in - well then, I give you fair warning that I would be extremely miffed (maybe even murderous in fact!)

 

[nightrider17]

It seems before the inheritance from her mother, EP and family were perhaps doing okay.

Then after the death of her mother in 2019 and the subsequent inheritance, properties were bought and built and then there was the marriage separation all within the culminating few years.

Maybe the inheritance tipped the balance of power and direction of the marriage.

If they were relying on the husbands income mainly prior to this inheritance.

Now the property buying and building of the new property and the other investment property can all be quite stressful, managing tenants, managing building on site of new house.

It could change the dynamics of who is making the decisions if the money is coming from inheritance rather than pooled savings.

The writings on the wall - could that have been done after eating some magic mushrooms?? just seems so bizarre to have it in such a prominent area. If children are doing it - it's not something that was done in 5 minutes, looks like over a period of time which is confusing why it was accepted by the parents?? MOO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Reading Simon’s online posting, which granted is focused on photography and weirdly journalists, I am left scratching my head about what happened to their marriage.

My interpretation of how Simon comes across, based on <modsnip> what we’ve read mostly in the DM (potentially it’s inaccurate!) is someone who is religious and pretty conservative. It seems like he was in a great position. Traveling frequently with his family and also taking solo photography trips. Earning enough as a Civil Engineer to fund this and a wife at home with the kids leaving plenty of time for his hobbies.

I think maybe Erin was the one who initiated the break up? I can’t help but wonder if her inheritance gave her confidence to leave?

Something just isn’t right. I think something serious is behind their relationship break down. They (he in particular) don’t seem like the kind of people to divorce. They remind me of my parents who I grew up hearing say that they would kill each other before divorcing (hot tip: don’t say things like that in front of children).

Purely speculation.

We’ll never really know. The only people who know what goes on in a marriage are the two people in it, and even they have different opinions about what really happened.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The writings on the wall - could that have been done after eating some magic mushrooms?? just seems so bizarre to have it in such a prominent area. If children are doing it - it's not something that was done in 5 minutes, looks like over a period of time which is confusing why it was accepted by the parents?? MOO

Perhaps it was painted just before the wall got painted.

Maybe give the kids a chance to let their imaginations go wild.

 

[LacieL]

Then after the death of her mother in 2019 and the subsequent inheritance, properties were bought and built and then there was the marriage separation all within the culminating few years.

The 2019 date is also significant because not too long after the death of Erin’s Mother Victoria went into a very long covid lockdown. A lot of relationships didn’t survive those lockdowns so it’s not particularly unusual. Perhaps it was particularly difficult on a family who were frequent travelers.

 

[Bats]

Perhaps it was painted just before the wall got painted.

Maybe give the kids a chance to let their imaginations go wild.

I agree Tootsie.
I'm not reading into anything with the wall. It looks like its started by recording the children's heights and has turned into a wall to scribble on. I'm sure lots of families have one and can't be analysed as anything more than that.

 

[Inthedetails]

deleting my question as I easily found the answer by actually reading the article, go figure!