Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[kittythehare]

Translates to "keep and use all of the toxic liquid". If Death Cap mushrooms were used in this case.

Meanwhile, soak the porcini in 150ml boiling water for 20 minutes, then drain, reserving the soaking liquid for the sauce. Squeeze any excess liquid from the mushrooms back into the soaking liquid, then finely chop them.

some recipes recommend dehydrating them in brandy.
Truthfully it's not a dish I enjoy much, it's invariably dry due to all the fat having been trimmed from the meat.
An awful lot depends upon the accompanying ingredients, getting that right in a way that keeps the beef moist.
I certainly wouldn't enjoy leftovers, they would be even drier if reheated..

 

[kittythehare]

Laboratory tests for Dc mushrooms

Mushroom Poisoning

Poisonous mushrooms are eaten by mushroom hunters out of ignorance, after misidentification as edible mushrooms, or as a psychoactive drug. Mushroom poisoning commonly leads to consultation with a poison information center and to hospitalization.This ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Forensic medical diagnostics of intoxication with certain poisonous mushrooms in the case of the lethal outcome in a hospital] - PubMed

The present study was undertaken with a view to improving forensic medical diagnostics of intoxication with poisonous mushrooms in the cases of patients' death in a hospital. A total of 15 protocols of forensic medical examination of the corpses of the people who had died from acute poisoning...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Amanita phalloides - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[bearbear]

Well, she didn't say it was broken. Just that she dumped it because she didn't want to lose custody of her children.


In the statement she admitted she had lied to investigators when she told them she had dumped it at the tip “a long time ago”, the ABC reports.

She said she was at the hospital with her children “discussing the food hydrator” when her estranged husband, Simon Patterson, asked: “Is that what you used to poison them?” Patterson said she had panicked and dumped the dehydrator at the tip, worried she might lose custody of her children.

Victorian woman at centre of suspected mushroom poisoning says she also went to hospital after eating meal

Erin Patterson tells police she bought the fungi from a supermarket chain and an Asian grocery store

www.theguardian.com

so in her mind, something on the dehydrater could cause her to potentially lose her children?
and she panicked? but why if she didnt use it to dehydrate mushrooms for that meal,
she said they were store bought? unless it had toxic or illegal residue on it?

 

[kittythehare]

so in her mind, something on the dehydrater could cause her to potentially lose her children?
and she panicked? but why if she didnt use it to to dehydrate mushrooms for that meal,
she said they were store bought? unless it had toxic or illegal residue on it?
shes contradicting her story

She is not.
She stated she got rid of it because her ex-husband suggested she had used it to poison his family.
This does not mean it was used to poison his family.
This is her own personal reaction to the words she said he uttered.
It looks like a fear response but without an accurate explanation for her reaction or their relationship history, we simply do not know.

 

[bearbear]

there was something on the tv news earlier about the poisoning, i wasnt really listening but it sounded like investigators have called in more poison mushroom experts to determine if it even was death cap mushrooms in the meal, cant find anything online about it thoough?
it sounded like police might be questioning the dc theory, or have no idea?

 

[kittythehare]

there was something on the tv news earlier about the poisoning, i wasnt really listening but it sounded like investigators have called in more poison mushroom experts to determine if it even was death cap mushrooms in the meal, cant find anything online about it thoough?
it sounded like police might be questioning the dc theory, or have no idea?

Why am I not surprised?

Edit, link is here but i don't have a sub

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Ftruecrimeaustralia%2Fpolice-courts-victoria%2Fhomicide-squad-detectives-call-in-mycologists-from-royal-botanic-gardens-to-identify-fatal-fungus-toxin%2Fnews-story%2Fe680b131a813ad96b3a80f95538765a8&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPA-Segment-3-NOSCO

Homicide detectives call in mushroom experts for help
Homicide Squad detectives have called in mushroom experts from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens to help identify the toxin which killed...
.
5 hours ago

 

[DeDee]

I can't imagine why EP lied. I also can't imagine why she dumped the dehydrator. And I can't imagine why she was discussing the dehydrator with her children at the hospital (when her ex apparently asked her if she used that to poison the lunch guests).

The dehydrator, seemingly, would have been used to dehydrate the store-bought button mushrooms. As the Asian market mushrooms were already dried.

But now that I know that EP has retained a top criminal lawyer, I am guessing that he is trying to sort her story out so that it makes some kind of sense to the police and the Dept of Health.

Maybe the dehydrator discussion occurred when Erin took herself and their children to the hospital and Simon met them there?

Maybe the dehydrator was used after EP foraged for DC; whenever that was. That is why the dehydrator may be contaminated with bits of DC. Then, the dehydrated DC were likely saved, on purpose and with intentions, for the special meal. Yes, predicated on the premise that guests were ill from DC poisoning, she likely gathered the DC herself. She tossed the dehydrator knowingly. JMOO

The Asian Market with a hand written label on dehydrated shrooms in Melbourne may be a total fabrication. Obtaining the buttons from the local market is likely true.

 

[bearbear]

She is not.
She stated she got rid of it because her ex-husband suggested she had used it to poison his family.
This does not mean it was used to poison his family.
This is her own personal reaction to the words she said he uttered.
It looks like a fear response but without an accurate explanation for her reaction or their relationship history, we simply do not know.

yes thats true, we dont know what might cause her to be fearful, or how the comment was said, jokingly or threateningly, especially if she constantly feared losing her children

 

[Forest_Wood]

Why am I not surprised?

Edit, link is here but i don't have a sub

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Ftruecrimeaustralia%2Fpolice-courts-victoria%2Fhomicide-squad-detectives-call-in-mycologists-from-royal-botanic-gardens-to-identify-fatal-fungus-toxin%2Fnews-story%2Fe680b131a813ad96b3a80f95538765a8&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPA-Segment-3-NOSCO

Homicide detectives call in mushroom experts for help
Homicide Squad detectives have called in mushroom experts from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens to help identify the toxin which killed...
.
5 hours ago

Are you able to summarize what's in that article? It's subscription based.

 

[bearbear]

Why am I not surprised?

Edit, link is here but i don't have a sub

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Ftruecrimeaustralia%2Fpolice-courts-victoria%2Fhomicide-squad-detectives-call-in-mycologists-from-royal-botanic-gardens-to-identify-fatal-fungus-toxin%2Fnews-story%2Fe680b131a813ad96b3a80f95538765a8&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPA-Segment-3-NOSCO

Homicide detectives call in mushroom experts for help
Homicide Squad detectives have called in mushroom experts from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens to help identify the toxin which killed...
.
5 hours ago

thank you, i cant open it as not subscribed but wonder if it hints at the possibility of it not being dc mushroom poisoning?

 

[SouthAussie]

Why am I not surprised?

Edit, link is here but i don't have a sub

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Ftruecrimeaustralia%2Fpolice-courts-victoria%2Fhomicide-squad-detectives-call-in-mycologists-from-royal-botanic-gardens-to-identify-fatal-fungus-toxin%2Fnews-story%2Fe680b131a813ad96b3a80f95538765a8&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=GROUPA-Segment-3-NOSCO

Homicide detectives call in mushroom experts for help
Homicide Squad detectives have called in mushroom experts from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens to help identify the toxin which killed...
.
5 hours ago

(paraphrased)

At least two mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens - ones who study the genetic and biochemical make-up of fungi - are working with VICPOL to confirm the toxin.

They have been asked not to discuss the case, as they may be needed to give evidence at a criminal trial.

However, one mycologist who used to work at the Royal Botanic Gardens explained their usual identification process.

She said they could examine fragments of specimens from the meal, or from mushroom samples in the vomit or diarrhoea from the patients at the hospital.
And that the symptoms, and timing of the symptoms, can also narrow down the toxin.
Also, if the police ordered fast-tracking of forensic analysis, the RBG mycologists can help to interpret the analysis results.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe the dehydrator discussion occurred when Erin took herself and their children to the hospital and Simon met them there?

Maybe the dehydrator was used after EP foraged for DC; whenever that was. That is why the dehydrator may be contaminated with bits of DC. Then, the dehydrated DC were likely saved, on purpose and with intentions, for the special meal. Yes, predicated on the premise that guests were ill from DC poisoning, she likely gathered the DC herself. She tossed the dehydrator knowingly. JMOO

The Asian Market with a hand written label on dehydrated shrooms in Melbourne may be a total fabrication. Obtaining the buttons from the local market is likely true.

I have been trying to work out why the dehydrator discussion with her children even happened.

"Mum, why do they think Grandma and Granddad were poisoned at our house?"
"I don't know, dear. Maybe something was on the dehydrator that poisoned the meal."

I have also looked to see if there is an innocent reason to use Death Cap toxin (maybe in gardening or something). That maybe EP dehydrated some in the past for an innocent reason.
But I am unable to find any legitimate use for the toxin.

 

[MsMarple]

(paraphrased)

At least two mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens - ones who study the genetic and biochemical make-up of fungi - are working with VICPOL to confirm the toxin.

They have been asked not to discuss the case, as they may be needed to give evidence at a criminal trial.

However, one mycologist who used to work at the Royal Botanic Gardens explained their usual identification process.

She said they could examine fragments of specimens from the meal, or from mushroom samples in the vomit or diarrhoea from the patients at the hospital.
And that the symptoms, and timing of the symptoms, can also narrow down the toxin.
Also, if the police ordered fast-tracking of forensic analysis, the RBG mycologists can help to interpret the analysis results.

Thanks! So mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens are working with LE to *confirm* the toxin. That’s different from questioning whether the poison came from death caps.

It’s good to know LE is utilizing experts.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks! So mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens are working with LE to *confirm* the toxin. That’s different from questioning whether the poison came from death caps.

It’s good to know LE is utilizing experts.

To expand the paraphrasing .... it says to confirm which type of mushroom, if any, caused the deaths.

But it definitely says confirm, not explore or speculate.

The police appear to be crossing their t's and dotting their i's. And being very careful in case there is a criminal trial at some point in the future.

 

[RickshawFan]

Thank you. I think that is a very important consideration to bear in mind. Also IF, EP's kitchen higiene was deficient, there may have been problems with the paté, which is a high risk product in terms of food poisoning. This could explain delays in the toxicology results.

Sorry for more speculation!

Just IMO

I thought the "paté" was mushrooms?

 

[MsMarple]

I thought the "paté" was mushrooms?

Pâté is made from goose or duck liver. Duxelles is the mushroom mixture.

 

[RickshawFan]

some recipes recommend dehydrating them in brandy.
Truthfully it's not a dish I enjoy much, it's invariably dry due to all the fat having been trimmed from the meat.
An awful lot depends upon the accompanying ingredients, getting that right in a way that keeps the beef moist.
I certainly wouldn't enjoy leftovers, they would be even drier if reheated..

How do you de-hydrate something by putting it in a liquid? Are you maybe re-hydrating them?

 

[jjenny]

How do you de-hydrate something by putting it in a liquid? Are you maybe re-hydrating them?

Yes, if you put something in liquid, you are re-hydrating it. Dehydrating is removing liquid from something. Dehydrator could be used to dry mushrooms. One can also dry mushrooms not using a dehydrator (that's how we used to do it). But presumably dehydrator will do it faster.

 

[RickshawFan]

Pâté is made from goose or duck liver. Duxelles is the mushroom mixture.

There is pâté in addition to all that 'shroom glop? I'm larding on atheroschlerosis plaques just thinking about this....Suddenly, my right side is inexplicably sore (though maybe my it hurts because I kept poking it to be sure it doesn't hurt), and my mirror shows a yellow cast to my skin that I didn't have this morning (perhaps explained by my cream-colored walls, but.....)

You could easily sprinkle 'shroom dust into the pâté? Goose liver is gonna disguise a lot.

 

[jjenny]

(paraphrased)

At least two mycologists from the Royal Botanic Gardens - ones who study the genetic and biochemical make-up of fungi - are working with VICPOL to confirm the toxin.

They have been asked not to discuss the case, as they may be needed to give evidence at a criminal trial.

However, one mycologist who used to work at the Royal Botanic Gardens explained their usual identification process.

She said they could examine fragments of specimens from the meal, or from mushroom samples in the vomit or diarrhoea from the patients at the hospital.
And that the symptoms, and timing of the symptoms, can also narrow down the toxin.
Also, if the police ordered fast-tracking of forensic analysis, the RBG mycologists can help to interpret the analysis results.

The tests for poisons usually are not straightforward and easy. Police themselves are certainly no experts on poison identification. So it's not surprising experts are asked to assist police.