Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[Salah11]

Erin Patterson, 48, lost her licence for 30 months in 2004 and was fined $1,000 for crashing her vehicle in the eastern Melbourne suburb of Glen Waverley and for subsequent offences, The Australian reported.

Ms Patterson, who was then 29-year-old Erin Trudi Scutter, was convicted of five charges in the Dandenong Magistrates Court on September 7, 2004, the newspaper reported.

The charges included failing to stop a vehicle after an accident, failing to give a name or address after causing property damage, using an unregistered vehicle on a highway and failing to give her name or address when property was damaged.

She reportedly submitted a breath test within three hours of the crash and posted a blood alcohol reading of 0.14 per cent - more than twice the legal limit - however a sixth charge related to that was struck out.

Her lawyer, Bill Doogue, said: 'Our client does not have any comment for you on a drink-driving charge from 19 years ago.'

When asked directly, Ms Patterson said: 'My lawyer has told me not to talk to you.'

Mushroom chef crashed car and fled the scene

Erin Patterson, 48, lost her licence for 30 months in 2004 and was fined $1,000 for crashing her vehicle in the eastern Melbourne suburb of Glen Waverley.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I know it was years ago but it just paints a very unflattering picture of who she is. You don’t do all that unless your a calculating individual.


IMO

 

[CityKid]

I wonder why the children were not sent to live with the father. Why would they send them to live with strangers instead of a trusted family member. It must be very traumatic for them. IMO.

Where did you see that the children are living with strangers?

 

[CityKid]

View attachment 443705

Is that an 86 on her shirt? Bizarre. From wikipedia:

Eighty-six or 86 is American English slang used to indicate that an item is no longer available, traditionally from a food or drinks establishment, or referring to a person or people who are not welcome in the premises. Its etymology is unknown but seems to have been coined in the 1920s or 1930s.

The term has been more generally used to mean getting rid of someone or something. In the 1970s, its meaning expanded to refer to murder.


As the article notes it's American slang, so the term—especially as it pertains to murder—may not be familiar to Australians. Still, it's an unfortunate choice.

The local story here in NYC is that 86 comes from 86 Bedford Street, which was the address of a prohibition-era speakeasy (Chumley's) in the West Village.
Edited to add info

 

[Forest_Wood]

Where did you see that the children are living with strangers?

See #142

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I haven't been given the impression that the children are not living with their dad.

In fact, all I have read says nothing about where they are.


Police say those children have been removed from her care as a “precaution”. Link

The media is at the house where my children are at. Link


It would be unusual, I think, for EP to know where her children are, if they are with strangers. And kincare (family) is generally the very first option for removed children, if kincare is available.

Have I missed an MSM or official report somewhere that states that they are with strangers?

My suspicion is that the children have been removed from the house with the agreement of EP on the grounds that three adults are dead and one is gravely ill not long after being there.

An argument could easily be mounted by the authorities / child welfare that perhaps there has been some form of targeted poisoning or some form of bio-chemical attack aimed at residents or visitors to the house or that maybe there is an environmental hazard thus far unidentified and therefore the children are not safe to be there until what has happened is established. A grown adult can choose to gamble with their life and stay but not make that choice for child?

What type of parent could possibly argue for their children to be kept in a potentially deadly environment? Most especially if they are actually innocent or are claiming to be innocent and unaware of what has happened.

I'm sure that where the children have gone to as a place of safety is by full consent of EP, hence there likely haven't been any formal orders or court papers.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

BBM I dunno about you guys but I've watched enough Borders Force to say I wouldn't even risk taking a digestive biscuit into Aus.

Same here! I get a bit panicky about taking prescription medication and vitamin supplements anywhere but yep Border Force and I'd be checking my pockets for old packets of chewing gum and half eaten chocolate bars, they're so intense.

 

[bearbear]

Yes, the mycologist who used to work at the RBG said that part of their usual investigations include:

• Macro characters - characters about any retrieved mushrooms from the patients or the meal that are visible to the eye
• Substrate - whether or not the mushrooms were growing on wood or lawn, if they are nearby native or exotic plants
• Examination of microscopic structures of the mushrooms, where possible, to narrow down the genus and possible species

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/homicide-squad-detectives-call-in-mycologists-from-royal-botanic-gardens-to-identify-fatal-fungus-toxin/news-story/e680b131a813ad96b3a80f95538765a8?amp&nk=39012dce8fc314501a47fc1cc53d9421-1693387787

i wonder what about if the mushrooms were powdered though?

 

[Baby baby Jane]

i wonder what about if the mushrooms were powdered though?

Was thinking this myself in regards to them being powdered or liquified added to a sauce or gravy. There would be no chunks to examine if there was a vomit or stool sample. I had been thinking if 2 in the household were very sick and vomiting/pooping, and there was no one there to mop up anything and everything that might have missed the bin or toilet. There could be small splash or missed the target samples available in the homes.

 

[SouthAussie]

My suspicion is that the children have been removed from the house with the agreement of EP on the grounds that three adults are dead and one is gravely ill not long after being there.

An argument could easily be mounted by the authorities / child welfare that perhaps there has been some form of targeted poisoning or some form of bio-chemical attack aimed at residents or visitors to the house or that maybe there is an environmental hazard thus far unidentified and therefore the children are not safe to be there until what has happened is established. A grown adult can choose to gamble with their life and stay but not make that choice for child?

What type of parent could possibly argue for their children to be kept in a potentially deadly environment? Most especially if they are actually innocent or are claiming to be innocent and unaware of what has happened.

I'm sure that where the children have gone to as a place of safety is by full consent of EP, hence there likely haven't been any formal orders or court papers.

I think they have probably been removed from her care, while the investigation is ongoing and she is a suspect/POI, because there is nothing stopping EP from going elsewhere with her kids if that was not the case.

But I agree that she is likely happy with where they are, and probably has access to them (phone calls, visits).

 

[Neet_Mc]

i wonder what about if the mushrooms were powdered though?

Mushrooms spores are microscopic and can be used to identify a species. Shredded/powdered mushroom, being significantly larger than spores and considered macroscopic, would be substantial enough to test. Presumably they are testing samples from the Asian shop, samples from the leftovers EP provided, any samples found in the house when evidence was removed, control samples of known death caps for comparative purposes as well as any samples retrieved from the victims - either from stomach/intestinal contents or faecal matter.

 

[Neet_Mc]

P

I think they have probably been removed from her care, while the investigation is ongoing and she is a suspect/POI, because there is nothing stopping EP from going elsewhere with her kids if that was not the case.

But I agree that she is likely happy with where they are, and probably has access to them (phone calls, visits).

I would imagine that having someone under investigation on suspicion of causing the death of 3 individuals is enough to warrant putting children in someone else’s care. Perhaps, SP was able to raise concerns (along lines of a family court type thing) to suggest they not return to the house. Not sure.

 

[Elley Mae]

She wrote that her two children had not been at the lunch but that she had served them the leftover beef Wellington the following day — after scraping off the mushrooms because the children did not like them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/15/new-details-about-australian-mushroom-deaths-stir-speculation/

…

Thinking if it was powdered just scrapping off the mushrooms ( the kids don’t like) would not have removed the powered version.

Jmo

 

[Salah11]

Australia wheels of justice really move slowly don’t they?!


How is it a month in from the poisoning and there is still no movement here. It’s farcical at this stage that she hasn’t been arrested ( if guilty) 1 month later when 3 people are dead and 1 critically ill. In the U.S and U.K. there is simply no way it would take this long to get a basic idea about what happened with the food that lunch time.



Moo

 

[Charlot123]

What do you mean three and five times - why say that? It is one incident that has been dug up and reported ie one occasion. As far as I know Australia is a modern country so yes ubers and taxis. I'm taking it your question was rhetorical. Moo

My question was in response to the article being under the paywall. I can’t read it. So I responded to the heading. In the US, I spoke with a lot of prior alcoholics. I assumed five charges were on five separate occasions.

 

[AussieIan]

I wonder what made them specify the symptoms were consistent with Death Cap mushrooms. I would think the symptoms for all poisonous mushrooms would be similar, affecting the gastrointestinal tract in a similar fashion.

In this book I'm reading called How To Forage For Mushrooms Without Dying, the author talks about a study by the American Association of Poison Control Centers that showed 400 out of 457 adult patients with wild-mushroom poisoning had actually eaten edible mushrooms that were mishandled.

They were perfectly edible mushrooms, but mishandled before eating by being stored in a hot car for too long or left out overnight on the counter so bacteria grew on them.

He goes on to say that safe food handling is essential -- to store them in a paper bag, keep them in the fridge, and always cook them before serving.

I believe it was reported she had some mushrooms stored in a cabinet.

<modsnip> the above is irrelevant since EP herself has stated that she purchased the mushrooms from grocers (which purchase farmed mushrooms) so the mushrooms were not wild-foraged.

 

[Salah11]

<modsnip> the above is irrelevant since EP herself has stated that she purchased the mushrooms from grocers (which purchase farmed mushrooms) so the mushrooms were not wild-foraged.

Yes I don’t understand the confusion as she never claimed she foraged them. They are shop brought and that came from the horses mouth.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

<modsnip> the above is irrelevant since EP herself has stated that she purchased the mushrooms from grocers (which purchase farmed mushrooms) so the mushrooms were not wild-foraged.

Also I think someone posted earlier that DC toxins target the LIVER and has certain timing of onset and symptoms.
While food poisonings from mishandling - bacteria, parasites, etc have their own unique symptoms and responses to medical intervention.

 

[Forest_Wood]

<modsnip> the above is irrelevant since EP herself has stated that she purchased the mushrooms from grocers (which purchase farmed mushrooms) so the mushrooms were not wild-foraged.

However , so are Death Caps wild foraged which has been most of the topic of this thread. So it's relevant imo.

For example, what if there were wild foraged mushrooms in the bag that she thought was store bought. It's easy to lose track of what's inside certain containers sometimes. And maybe they were not stored properly from the beginning. Moo

 

[RickshawFan]

I think it is probable that someone is leaking a little to the media, now and again. Keeping the pressure on.

How else would the media know that RBG mycologists who have been asked to not speak with the media are helping to confirm the use of Death Cap mushrooms in this case.

Probably everything we hear is not a "new development" but is instead information that is able to be leaked to keep the profile of this case in the public eye for a while.

imo

Great point. If I were a detective and docs suspected mushroom poisoning from a beef wellington, I'd be calling mycologists first thing, since this is quite a specialist subject. So, yes, at this late stage, it's a deliberately leaked detail that doesn't mean a whole lot except as pressure point. What it does confirm, however, is that mushroom poisoning is a critical route of enquiry, and they have the "best experts in the world" on it.

 

[RickshawFan]

c the above is irrelevant since EP herself has stated that she purchased the mushrooms from grocers (which purchase farmed mushrooms) so the mushrooms were not wild-foraged.

The "store-bought mushrooms were not wild-foraged" would be more precise?