Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #4

[SouthAussie]

That doesn't mean that there are no other POI's. Investigators often won't inform the public of updates. MOO

Typically (only from my experience with following a good chunk of Victorian cases here, though) the Vic police don't name a POI lightly. They don't name them at all. They just investigate quietly and then there is an arrest of someone we didn't even know was on their radar.

The one exception being Mr Ristevski. They named him, I think to put pressure on him, and now he is in prison for manslaughter.

If this case follows in their usual fashion, EP is their prime POI.

imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Typically, only from my experience with following a good chunk of Victorian cases here, the Vic police don't name a POI lightly. They don't name them at all. They just investigate quietly and then there is an arrest of someone we didn't even know was on their radar.

The one exception being Mr Ristevski. They named him, I think to put pressure on him, and now he is in prison for manslaughter.

If this case follows in their usual fashion, EP is their prime POI.

I can't disagree with any of that.

I agree that she is a person of interest to the police.


I do a Grrr whenever I remember that Mr R only got manslaughter.

 

[katydid23]

IMO the fact that EP was named as a Person of Interest has not "simply ignored by some", and in fact, does the "some" a disservice.

I, and I'm guessing some other Websleuthers, have been trained to keep an open mind in the course of my work duties (which have included conducting investigations ) to avoid making assumptions. and jumping to conclusions in the absence of clear evidence.

Given that there is still no toxicology result which confirms that the illnesses and deaths of the victims were caused by death caps, or anything else served by EP, IMO it is entirely reasonable to keep an open mind and consider other aspects.

I think there is a strong indication that the main focus of the investigation is still upon potential Mushroom poisoning from the lunch served by EP.

The investigators have said the symptoms of the victims mirrored the known symptoms of Death Caps. And they brought in experts in mushroom poisoning to help with the toxicology reports.

"Don and Gail Patterson and her sister Heather Wilkinson died from symptoms consistent with death cap mushroom poisoning, according to media reports. Ian Wilkinson is the patient still in hospital. "

Police probe three deaths linked to mushroom poisoning

Police are investigating after three people died from suspected mushroom poisoning in Australia. Four people were taken to the hospital on July 30 after

www.foodsafetynews.com

Victoria Police’s homicide squad, which is investigating the case, urged people to stay away from wild mushrooms and only eat those that are available at supermarkets as they tried to work out the details of the case.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/15/australia/australia-poison-mushroom-statement-intl-hnk/index.html

New details in the case this week have ignited fresh interest, however, with a local mushroom growers group releasing a statement that disputed the host’s claim that she had bought the mushrooms she served at the dinner at a store.
“This fungus (death caps) only grow in the wild,” the Australian Mushroom Growers Association said in a statement to the Australian Associated Press. “The only mushrooms you can be sure are safe are fresh, Australian-grown mushrooms bought from a trusted retailer.”

Local media has reported that there no unusual mushroom-related recalls or warnings have been issued in Victoria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/15/new-details-about-australian-mushroom-deaths-stir-speculation/

Police call in experts from Royal Botanic Gardens to help identify fatal toxin in mushroom lunch which killed three people

It is understood two mycologists from Melbourne's Royal Botanic Gardens will now assist in identifying the toxin, if any, that were in the dish, according to Herald Sun.

A mycologist is someone who works with fungi and studies the genetic, biochemical properties and the dangers such as toxicity or infection.

New twist in fatal mushroom lunch investigation

Experts have been called in to help detectives identify the toxin in a meal potentially laced with a deadly mushroom that killed three family members late last month.

www.skynews.com.au

So it seems pretty clear that they believe the victims ate toxic mushrooms.

Whether or not someone is "cunning and sly" and a "proven liar" , that doesn't necessarily mean they are a murderer at all. There are many reasons why people say and do things (some not at all obvious.) MOO

Fact remains that the health department had time to urgently discuss with the 4 victims EXACTLY what and when they all ate together before the symptoms began.

So all this talk about them eating at another restaurant or at each other's home before or after seem irrelevant, unless they said they ate mushrooms together then too. Which seems unlikely. JMO

 

[Salah11]

There is only One person of interest named who has been caught lying multiple times.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There is only One person of interest named who has been caught lying multiple times.

The one who can't bring herself to say she hopes Ian will pull through.

I have so much space available to believe that EP is innocent but that one thing makes me feel almost certain she's done this.

 

[Salah11]

The one who can't bring herself to say she hopes Ian will pull through.

I have so much space available to believe that EP is innocent but that one thing makes me feel almost certain she's done this.

There are so many signs of guilt and her crocodile tears were fooling no one imo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There are so many signs of guilt and her crocodile tears were fooling no one imo

Indeed I think her general demeanour is the biggest clue of all, even if that cannot stand up in court as 'evidence'. JMO.

 

[Neet_Mc]

I don't think it's "ludicrous" at all to consider the possibility that the two couples may have consumed further food or beverages later on the day of EP's lunch. It's something which I, and others within my social circle do frequently. Main get-together - lunch - there for several hours - lively conversation - when heading back home, invite the others in for a cuppa and/or snack.
The four were close, and maybe wanted to keep the chat going for a while. Nothing "ludicrous" about that, in my opinion. Why do you think it is "ludicrous"?

Additionally, you state that if this occurred, "then this would have been a place investigated by police, with forensic evidence collected." How do you know that this has not occurred. Maybe it has.

Also, you stated "It has to be assumed, given the *ONLY site that LE have visited and collected evidence from is EP's house, that all other possibiliities have been ruled out." How do you know that it is "the only site which LE have visited, and collected evidence from?"

Investigators are going to keep their cards close to their chest, and not inform the public of investigative details if at all possible. To do otherwise could potentially adversely affect the integrity of the investigation. MOO

*Your capital letters - not mine.

Given the size of both Leongatha and Korrumburra and the absolute media saturation, locals/media would have been all over any unusual police /investigator activity (eg inspecting a cafe) like a rash. While police will restrict what information they release to public, I think it can be presumed that their presence at any other sites collecting evidence would’ve already leaked out into public arena in some way (eg via media observation or post on a community Facebook page or similar) irrespective of whether that was in an official police media statement or not.
EP’s house, the tip, Asian grocer in Mt Waverley are sites investigated that we know about. No mention of any other cafes/restaraunts/houses, so assume they haven’t been place of interest because they werent attended by the four together either pre/post the lunch.

 

[Neet_Mc]

Do you really imagine they didn't search all the victims' homes and investigate every aspect of their lives because media have not published it?

No

 

[ch_13]

Given the size of both Leongatha and Korrumburra and the absolute media saturation, locals/media would have been all over any unusual police /investigator activity (eg inspecting a cafe) like a rash. While police will restrict what information they release to public, I think it can be presumed that their presence at any other sites collecting evidence would’ve already leaked out into public arena in some way (eg via media observation or post on a community Facebook page or similar) irrespective of whether that was in an official police media statement or not.
EP’s house, the tip, Asian grocer in Mt Waverley are sites investigated that we know about. No mention of any other cafes/restaraunts/houses, so assume they haven’t been place of interest because they werent attended by the four together either pre/post the lunch.

Not to mention that the police have an obligation to safeguard the public health.

If there was the slightest chance that a public location served contaminated food or drink, they would have to make an announcement and a request for anyone who felt unwell after eating there to come forward.

 

[SouthAussie]

Not to mention that the police have an obligation to safeguard the public health.

If there was the slightest chance that a public location served contaminated food or drink, they would have to make an announcement and a request for anyone who felt unwell after eating there to come forward.

I think that the Dept of Health probably would have closed the establishment until they got to the source of the poisoning.
Which, as you say, would have been announced in the media for public health reasons.


These are examples from Victoria ...

Restaurant closed as food poisoning hits 17

Dozens of salmonella cases linked to bakery

Cafe to reopen after mayonnaise caused food poisoning

 

[al66pine]

EP. Suspect or POI, per LE?

There is only one named suspect...

@Salah11 snipped for focus
Respectfully, if LE identified EP by name as a suspect in causing the deaths of three people, I've missed it. I could have missed it, entirely possible but ---

IIRC, LE's public statement named her as a PoI in their investigation of the three deaths, and
IIRC, LE's public statements did not say it is conducting a homicide investigation, and
IIRC, their phrasing has been more nebulous, something like suspicious deaths or unusual deaths.

Aug. 10 yahoo article* said LE said she was a suspect, but in vid clip showing the detective speaking (gotta love his accent ), he did NOT refer to her as a "suspect."

Can you find LE naming her as a "suspect" in causing these deaths? Link and quote pls? Anyone? TiA

_______________________________________
* The MSM "Timeline" below has been republished in various news outlets and has been posted here multiple times. The vid clip in article was provided by LE.

"Timeline of the mushroom deaths
July 29, Erin Patterson, 48, allegedly served lunch to six people in the town of Leongatha.
July 30, Four people who attended the lunch were taken to hospital after falling ill.
August 4, Gail Patterson and Heather Wilkinson died in hospital.
August 5, Don Patterson died.
August 7, Detective Inspector Dean Thomas said the woman who served the meal was a "suspect". "

Inside the sleepy town rocked by mushroom deaths: 'It affects everyone'

The small conservative town has become the focus of international attention with grief, speculation and rumours engulfing Korumburra.

au.news.yahoo.com

 

[thunderwombat]

Of course not. I don't think this area even has coffee shops in proximity. It's a rural area.

This is Victoria. Victorian law states that any citizen of our state is able to access excellent coffee at any time in any place. I'm telling porkies course, but we do like our coffee here. Saying that, I don't think they would have stopped for a snack on the short ride to lunch or the short ride home.

 

[katydid23]

Not to mention that the police have an obligation to safeguard the public health.

If there was the slightest chance that a public location served contaminated food or drink, they would have to make an announcement and a request for anyone who felt unwell after eating there to come forward.

Right, and if there was the slightest chance that an Asian market near Melbourne had sold dried Death Caps to a customer, there would have been urgent announcements and warning weeks ago.

Clearly, the investigators don't believe that version of the story. JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

EP. Suspect or POI, per LE?

@Salah11 snipped for focus
Respectfully, if LE identified EP by name as a suspect in causing the deaths of three people, I've missed it. I could have missed it, entirely possible but ---

IIRC, LE's public statement named her as a PoI in their investigation of the three deaths, and
IIRC, LE's public statements did not say it is conducting a homicide investigation, and
IIRC, their phrasing has been more nebulous, something like suspicious deaths or unusual deaths.

Aug. 10 yahoo article* said LE said she was a suspect, but in vid clip showing the detective speaking (gotta love his accent ), he did NOT refer to her as a "suspect."

Can you find LE naming her as a "suspect" in causing these deaths? Link and quote pls? Anyone? TiA

_______________________________________
* The MSM "Timeline" below has been republished in various news outlets and has been posted here multiple times. The vid clip in article was provided by LE.

"Timeline of the mushroom deaths
July 29, Erin Patterson, 48, allegedly served lunch to six people in the town of Leongatha.
July 30, Four people who attended the lunch were taken to hospital after falling ill.
August 4, Gail Patterson and Heather Wilkinson died in hospital.
August 5, Don Patterson died.
August 7, Detective Inspector Dean Thomas said the woman who served the meal was a "suspect". "

Inside the sleepy town rocked by mushroom deaths: 'It affects everyone'

The small conservative town has become the focus of international attention with grief, speculation and rumours engulfing Korumburra.

au.news.yahoo.com

Does the video clip show the reporters asking all their questions after DI Thomas first spoke? Because that is when I think he said 'suspect'. I think it was in answer to a question from a journalist (from remembering a TV news excerpt of the presser).

It is stated in this article that DI Thomas said that EP remained a suspect because she cooked the meals.

And it is stated in this article that DI Thomas said that EP became a suspect because she did not fall ill after serving the beef wellington.

And it is stated in this article that DI Thomas said that EP had prepared separate meals for her and the children.

The articles may all be subscriber only. Which is unfortunate, because many are missing the details that are included in these articles.

 

[MsMarple]

Early on my number one theory was that EP did actually forage death cap mushrooms by mistake and was too terrified to admit it. In part because IMO it’s almost impossible to imagine that she would intentionally poison the very people she loved, including a woman whom she said she considered another mother.

And not just poison but use a poison that brings on an unimaginable amount of pain.

But after watching videos of her responses to reporters and especially her statement given to her lawyer and somehow leaked to the press that theory dropped down lower on the list.

Anyway, has anyone else considered that EP foraged the mushrooms by mistake or otherwise?

All JMO

 

[Oona]

Early on my number one theory was that EP did actually forage death cap mushrooms by mistake and was too terrified to admit it. In part because IMO it’s almost impossible to imagine that she would intentionally poison the very people she loved, including a woman whom she said she considered another mother.

And not just poison but use a poison that brings on an unimaginable amount of pain.

But after watching videos of her responses to reporters and especially her statement given to her lawyer and somehow leaked to the press that theory dropped down lower on the list.

Anyway, has anyone else considered that EP foraged the mushrooms by mistake or otherwise?

All JMO

Yes I felt this way initially.
As I started to have my doubts, mainly around EP not experiencing the same serious symptoms as her guests, I thought EP could still use a foraging mistake as a legitimate defense, deliberate or not.
But then she made her statement about purchasing the mushrooms…
EP’s statement did nothing to “Clear things up” for me, instead it raised more inconsistencies and doubt.

 

[al66pine]

EP. Suspect or PoI, per LE? More

Does the video clip show the reporters asking all their questions after DI Thomas first spoke? Because that is when I think he said 'suspect'. I think it was in answer to a question from a journalist (from remembering a TV news excerpt of the presser).
It is stated in this article that DI Thomas said that EP remained a suspect because she cooked the meals.

And it is stated in this article that DI Thomas said that EP became a suspect because she did not fall ill after serving the beef wellington.

And it is stated in this article that DI Thomas said that EP had prepared separate meals for her and the children.

The articles may all be subscriber only. Which is unfortunate, because many are missing the details that are included in these articles.

@SouthAussie
Thank you very much for your extensive response & links.
I was able to read only the first one, from Aug. 14 The Age* w/out a subscription. Sure enough, names the LEO Det. and says he said "suspect."

My earlier post said I could have missed it; Turns out I did (insert red face). I questioned how a few posted --- suspect---when I had only read and heard PoI.

Thanks for taking the time to clear this up for me.
________________________
* "Homicide squad Detective Inspector Dean Thomas has said Patterson remained a suspect because she cooked the meals. But he has also said police were still considering an accidental poisoning “not at the hands of somebody else” to be a possibility, alongside a potentially “nefarious activity”. "

Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

Erin Patterson told police she, too, was sick from the beef Wellington lunch that police suspect killed her former in-laws and another relative.

www.theage.com.au

 

[sapphire blue]

Of course not. I don't think this area even has coffee shops in proximity. It's a rural area.

It’s not that rural. There are more than 10 coffee shops in Leongatha and at quite a few in korumburra too.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It’s not that rural. There are more than 10 coffee shops in Leongatha and at quite a few in korumburra too.

We love our coffee shops in Australia, even small places seem to have heaps.