Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[ch_13]

If Simon wasn't at the meal, then this particular charge is purely speculative and hypothetical.

Not necessarily. If Erin started planning her scheme before Simon canceled then I think a jury could find that she intended to kill him as well. It would take quite a bit of time to obtain the death caps in the first place, not to mention that Beef Wellington is a dish that requires significant advanced prep.

Especially if it's true, as some have surmised, that he was the intended target all along.

Edit - Imagine a situation where Erin made the lunch, but an informant leaked her plans to the family and no one showed up. Later the police pull the Beef Wellington out of the garbage and discover that it was poisoned. Surely, they could still charge Erin with attempted murder even though no one actually sat down to eat at the table.

 

[Salah11]

Not necessarily. If Erin started planning her scheme before Simon canceled then I think a jury could find that she intended to kill him as well. It would take quite a bit of time to obtain the death caps in the first place, not to mention that Beef Wellington is a dish that requires significant advanced prep.

Especially if it's true, as some have surmised, that he was the intended target all along.

Edit - Imagine a situation where Erin made the lunch, but an informant leaked her plans to the family and no one showed up. Later the police pull the Beef Wellington out of the garbage and discover that it was poisoned. Surely, they could still charge Erin with attempted murder even though no one actually sat down to eat at the table.

Also not forgetting she apparently had from for trying to poison him multiple times before when she cooked for him in the past.

This only applies if guilty which she may not be but I am trusting LE as they have taken months to get their ducks all in a row.

MOO

 

[MsMarple]

The 7 News video linked below is an update which mainly covers Erin’s court appearance today.

It was reported that some of the computer equipment seized during the raid on Erin’s house yesterday were found hidden across the property.

If they contain anything incriminating, I find it incredible that Erin thought she could successfully hide the equipment such that a police search wouldn’t find it.

Charlie Bezzina (an experienced Victorian ex homicide detective) was quoted earlier today as saying that the use of technology dogs was highly unusual.

This leads me to believe that the police had intelligence that indicated that Erin may have incriminating material on electronic devices and that she was concealing them.

In the absence of such intelligence I feel they would still seize and examine her devices as happens in many serious criminal investigations - the use of the technology detection dogs seems indicative of them having foreknowledge.

Jumping ahead as I’m still catching up…

I wonder if EP kept a hidden personal diary. If so then much might be revealed. IMO of course.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think a lot of that won't come out until further in the judicial process. Australia is like the UK in that way.

MOO

It's going to be one heck of a trial - I hope it's televised.

 

[CityKid]

If Simon wasn't at the meal, then this particular charge is purely speculative and hypothetical.

The charge is "did attempt to commit an indictable offence namely the murder of Simon Patterson" which makes me wonder if EP did send a slice of her special Wellington home with Simon's parents with the instruction that they give it to Simon? Perhaps the victim who told the police something alarming in the ambulance said, "We all ate beef Wellington and there's a slice of it in my fridge, intended for my son"? Or "She gave me an extra slice for my son and we gave it to him on our way home"? I don't know the law in Australia as to what qualifies for attempted murder.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Not necessarily. If Erin started planning her scheme before Simon canceled then I think a jury could find that she intended to kill him as well. It would take quite a bit of time to obtain the death caps in the first place, not to mention that Beef Wellington is a dish that requires significant advanced prep.

Especially if it's true, as some have surmised, that he was the intended target all along.

Edit - Imagine a situation where Erin made the lunch, but an informant leaked her plans to the family and no one showed up. Later the police pull the Beef Wellington out of the garbage and discover that it was poisoned. Surely, they could still charge Erin with attempted murder even though no one actually sat down to eat at the table.

IF she's a sociopath, maybe her target was SP and everyone else is collateral damage and she didn't even care? (there has been no suggestion she's a sociopath)

 

[charminglane]

IF she's a sociopath, maybe her target was SP and everyone else is collateral damage and she didn't even care? (there has been no suggestion she's a sociopath)

(She is one in my head)
Moooooo

 

[SouthAussie]

The charge is "did attempt to commit an indictable offence namely the murder of Simon Patterson" which makes me wonder if EP did send a slice of her special Wellington home with Simon's parents with the instruction that they give it to Simon? Perhaps the victim who told the police something alarming in the ambulance said, "We all ate beef Wellington and there's a slice of it in my fridge, intended for my son"? Or "She gave me an extra slice for my son and we gave it to him on our way home"? I don't know the law in Australia as to what qualifies for attempted murder.

In Victoria, the police will need to prove that:

1. The accused intended to commit the offence; and
2. The accused attempted to commit the offence.

Intent: "This means that he or she must have intended to carry out the physical elements of the offence. It is not sufficient for the accused to have been reckless or negligent as to the commission of the offence."

Attempt: "His or her conduct must have been more than an act preparatory to the commission of the offence. It must not be remotely connected to the commission of the offence." "Where the line is drawn between preparation and attempt will depend on the facts of the case. Attempted offences are sometimes described as the beginning of the commission of an offence."

Attempted Offences (Vic)

It sounds as if all that is needed is that EP purposely prepared a poisonous meal (or whatever) and invited SP over to consume it.

imo

 

[they'll get you]

Those poor kids have lost everything except dad. How old are the children?

I hope they are getting all the right help possible.

 

[SouthAussie]

Those poor kids have lost everything except dad. How old are the children?

I hope they are getting all the right help possible.

The children are in Years 5 & 7 in school. Link

Which means they are turning/turned 11 this year and turning/turned 13 this year. Link

 

[katydid23]

“6. The accused in the State of Victoria between 16/11/2021 and 17/11/2021 did attempt to commit an indictable offence namely the murder of Simon Patterson.
7. The accused in the State of Victoria between 25/05/2022 and 27/05/2022 did attempt to commit an indictable offence namely the murder of Simon Patterson.
8. The accused in the State of Victoria on 26/09/2022 did attempt to commit an indictable offence namely the murder of Simon Patterson.”

It is interesting that some of these dates span several days and they are weekdays not weekends. I’m not entirely convinced they were living separately for as long as has been reported…..unless the accused was kindly dropping off some home cooking for her ex?
It is also possible that some of the attempted poisonings were not food based.
The accused was quite brazen and determined in my opinion.

In some separations, where children are involved, one parent may come stay the night in guest room for the child's birthday, or a special event like graduation, etc. Kids like to have the family together when things are amicable.

Maybe she was acting kind and innocent at the time, all the while cooking him a toxic substance to eat---reportedly of the night shade variety?

Apparently green potatoes, unripe potatoes and poorly stored potatoes can be very toxic...

Solanine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What are the most poisonous nightshades?

Atropa belladonna

• Atropa belladonna, commonly known as belladonna or deadly nightshade, is a toxic perennial herbaceous plant in the nightshade family Solanaceae, which also includes tomatoes, potatoes and eggplant (aubergine). ...
• The foliage and berries are extremely toxic when ingested, containing tropane alkaloids.

Key takeaways:

• Nightshade vegetables include potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplant. ...
• Nightshades contain the alkaloid solanine, which is toxic in high concentrations. ...
• Some people say eliminating nightshades helps reduce arthritis pain and autoimmune disorder flare-ups.

Nightshade vegetables, such as potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplants, contain solanine. This substance may increase the leakiness of the intestines and affect the gastrointestinal microbiota, indirectly increasing the inflammation relating to arthritis.


What are the symptoms of alkaloid poisoning?

Initial signs and symptoms may be followed by hyperthermia, confusion, agitation, combativeness, seizures, coma, and death. Amnesia regarding events following ingestion of tropane alkaloids is common. Identification of ingested plants can be diagnostic of tropane alkaloid poisoning.Jun 21, 2023

 

[SouthAussie]

In some separations, where children are involved, one parent may come stay the night in guest room for the child's birthday, or a special event like graduation, etc. Kids like to have the family together when things are amicable.

I was also thinking that SP might not have been exactly clear on the dates in which he feels he consumed toxin (for the first two alleged attempts on his life).

He may have known it was either 16/11/21 or 17/11/21. And it was 25, 26, or 27/5/22. Which may be dates that revolve around birthdays.

They don't appear to be dates when any graduation may have happened. This would usually be in December, for graduation from Primary School for the eldest child. The younger child is yet to graduate from Primary School.

And those dates don't correlate with Mothers Day or Fathers Day on those years.

ETA: Or perhaps SP helped EP and the children move from Korumburra to Leongatha on one of these first attempts. Which may have exposed him to food and drink prepared by EP.

imo

 

[katydid23]

She's said and done a number of dumb things. I'm having trouble reconciling that with claims from a former colleague that she's "very bright and much brighter than people might think".

I think that some people can be very intellectually bright and intelligent, while also being emotionally unwell. Sometimes a highly intelligent person makes very stupid mistakes because of their impulsive or compulsive reactions or behaviours.

Sometimes a narcissistic or borderline person feels compelled to commit a vengeful crime and they believe they are smarter than the police.

 

[MrJ]

With regards to the accused’s alleged behaviour of trying to hide electronic devices but scattering them, trying to dispose of the dehydrator, I think that it is simply possible that she may be calculating but to a point. Clearly if she’s guilty she was cunning enough to go to lengths to hide the deathcap mushrooms in the meal, but when it came to disposing evidence, perhaps a bit sloppy. Did she think she wouldn’t be caught eventually?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just an idea but what if she insists she really did purchase some mushrooms at an 'asian store' and they must have been toxic somehow? Can LE prove beyond all reasonable doubt that something didn't go wrong somehow?

 

[Salah11]

Just an idea but what if she insists she really did purchase some mushrooms at an 'asian store' and they must have been toxic somehow? Can LE prove beyond all reasonable doubt that something didn't go wrong somehow?

We will find out when it goes to trial but the odds are not in her favour when you consider all the facts we know so far.

MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Just an idea but what if she insists she really did purchase some mushrooms at an 'asian store' and they must have been toxic somehow? Can LE prove beyond all reasonable doubt that something didn't go wrong somehow?

This may be why the police were intently searching for other electronic devices/storage.
They may still be looking for indications of a plan or checklist. To dispel any thoughts of reasonable doubt.
And to use along with testimony and evidence from shops, suppliers and growers.

imo

 

[Neet_Mc]

IF she's a sociopath, maybe her target was SP and everyone else is collateral damage and she didn't even care? (there has been no suggestion she's a sociopath)

Yes. ALL of this has been suggested in previous threads many moons ago.

 

[LordCyrus]

I get the impression that despite all the circumstantial evidence, the police lack a smoking gun and were hoping that this latest search of the house would uncover something.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Just an idea but what if she insists she really did purchase some mushrooms at an 'asian store' and they must have been toxic somehow? Can LE prove beyond all reasonable doubt that something didn't go wrong somehow?

If she really did there would be a whole community of sick people.