Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[Charlot123]

Surely she had to see that a successful attack on his family would make it harder for her to poison Simon in future?

Simon may have not been 100% sure she ever tried to poison him. It was just a pattern that started assembling in his head. His friends noticed that he was more sick after having spent the time with her. This is how it started. I think that if the families fully suspected her of being a poisoner, they'd never show up.

It would be interesting to know how things unfolded. If Erin ever knew that Simon decided not to come, after all. Imagine they all drove from different places. The parents might have known that Simon decided not to come, or advised him not to come, but said to Erin that he'd join them later. So she goes with the process, expecting him to come and join the Beef Wellington party, and he doesn't appear till the enda. Plus, Erin got away with it several times. Still tried. She probably didn't know that Simon was suspecting her, but he started avoiding her house, so she had to arrange this party.

He probably had a huge suspicion when he came to visit the parents, and that talk about the dehydrator was the last piece of the puzzle.

 

[Kemug]

They definitely had warrants for her devices.

"Technology Detector Dog Georgia found one USB, a micro secure digital card and a sim card.
"Technology Detector Dog Alma found a mobile phone, five IPads, a trail camera, and a secure digital card and a smart watch.
"These were not found during initial searches undertaken by officers."

RSBM
So does that mean that they were hidden?

 

[JLZ]

Simon may have not been 100% sure she ever tried to poison him. It was just a pattern that started assembling in his head. His friends noticed that he was more sick after having spent the time with her. This is how it started. I think that if the families fully suspected her of being a poisoner, they'd never show up.

It would be interesting to know how things unfolded. If Erin ever knew that Simon decided not to come, after all. Imagine they all drove from different places. The parents might have known that Simon decided not to come, or advised him not to come, but said to Erin that he'd join them later. So she goes with the process, expecting him to come and join the Beef Wellington party, and he doesn't appear till the enda. Plus, Erin got away with it several times. Still tried. She probably didn't know that Simon was suspecting her, but he started avoiding her house, so she had to arrange this party.

He probably had a huge suspicion when he came to visit the parents, and that talk about the dehydrator was the last piece of the puzzle.

She said that he cancelled "prior to the day". I'd just want to check that he delivered the message to Erin, not only to his own family. The contradictions in the mushroom poisoning case

 

[Charlot123]

She said that he cancelled "prior to the day". I'd just want to check that he delivered the message to Erin, not only to his own family. The contradictions in the mushroom poisoning case

Thank you!
He says, according to your link, that he pulled out the last minute.
Poor guy. What a tragedy for him.

 

[Nadal]

From what I read about poisoners, they are almost obsessive. Once they choose the victim, they keep on trying unless they succeed. Very strange, but they don’t care how many people die in the process as long as they get at their true target. I still think that the goal was her husband.

If I were to guess, Erin’s main goal is her husband Simon (and she meant business, as he spent 16 days in induced coma after one attempt and had three surgeries). He planned to come, remember, but changed plans the last moment. Maybe she didn’t know that he won’t show up. She probably disliked the Pattersons; as to the Wilkinsons, she probably didn’t aim at them, but they were “who cares as long as I get to him?” victims.

I think this is generalizing too much. There tends to be a want to group criminals together and give them the same psychological behaviours and motivations as if they are a monolith. I think it largely comes from Profilers in the 80s, Profiling is not well received academically nowadays (and never really was) people have moved away from that way of thinking. I don't think poisoners have clear common traits in the sense that you can call them "obsessive", there's also a clear issue with the idea because if a poisoner wasn't obsessive and gave up after one attempt maybe we don't know about them which would skew the data. However i doubt this is based on extensive data anyway it sounds like something that comes from analysis of a few famous cases which is often an issue in these kinds of criminals = monolith's thinking.

 

[JLZ]

Thank you!
He says, according to your link, that he pulled out the last minute.
Poor guy. What a tragedy for him.

Where? I'm only seeing that his friend commented.

 

[Charlot123]

I think this is generalizing too much. There tends to be a want to group criminals together and give them the same psychological behaviours and motivations as if they are a monolith. I think it largely comes from Profilers in the 80s, Profiling is not well received academically nowadays (and never really was) people have moved away from that way of thinking. I don't think poisoners have clear common traits in the sense that you can call them "obsessive", there's also a clear issue with the idea because if a poisoner wasn't obsessive and gave up after one attempt maybe we don't know about them which would skew the data. However i doubt this is based on extensive data anyway it sounds like something that comes from analysis of a few famous cases which is often an issue in these kinds of criminals = monolith's thinking.

I don’t even follow profilers. I have noticed that in most of the cases, the discussions start from “the middle” of the case. Maybe it is inevitable as the police doesn’t provide us with too much information. (But the profilers - they don’t have our limitations, right? So why do they always make only one profile?)

Nonetheless, poisoning is an interesting theme because it can totally fly under the radar.

 

[Charlot123]

Where? I'm only seeing that his friend commented.

Yes, sorry, point 5. Simon’s friend says Simon pulled out “the last minute”, Erin says, “he canceled prior the day”.

 

[Girlwdgntattoo]

ADMIN NOTE:

IMPORTANT

Effective with Erin Patterson's arrest, sub judice is in effect and will be until a trial has concluded. For anyone not familiar with the judicial principle of sub judice, please review the following.

WS is based in the USA but we do try to manage the various discussions to comply with laws of other countries.

As this trial is in Australia, the case is under sub judice so please avoid anything that violates the following principles:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.

Posts that are determined to constitute a violation of sub judice will be removed. To avoid this, please review the following from the Victoria Law Reform Commission and post accordingly:
10. Sub judice contempt: restricting the publication of prejudicial information

Very informative, and educational post! Thank you for explaining all of this, so I can understand.

 

[Marg944]

Alleged mushroom lunch killer photographed at Victorian Supreme Court​

“The woman allegedly at the centre of a deadly lunch has been photographed for the first time since she was charged with murdering three relatives.

“The 50-year-old was seen arriving at the Supreme Court of Victoria on Tuesday morning for a pre-trial hearing — the details of which cannot be reported under Victorian law.

Ms Patterson was seen wearing a green ribbed sweater and black slacks, carrying a large book as she arrived at court.

Ms Patterson has pleaded not guilty to charges of murder and attempted murder, with the case set down for a trial on April 28.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/alleged-mushroom-lunch-killer-photographed-at-victorian-supreme-court/news-story/64a16ea03c0661e205589c6b355409b2

She looks like she has tidied herself up since she was last photographed. IMO

 

[Marg944]

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Accused mushroom triple-murderer fronts pre-trial court

Erin Patterson has appeared in a Melbourne court as she prepares to face trial accused of killing three relatives with poisonous mushrooms.

www.thenewdaily.com.au

Accused mushroom triple-murderer fronts pre-trial court​

Accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson has been photographed for the first time since she was charged over a fatal mushroom lunch.

Patterson, 50, appeared in person at the Victorian Supreme Court on Tuesday for a hearing ahead of her upcoming trial.

She was wearing a green jumper, black plants and black sandals.

 

[Ellery84]

Accused mushroom triple-murderer fronts pre-trial court

Erin Patterson has appeared in a Melbourne court as she prepares to face trial accused of killing three relatives with poisonous mushrooms.

www.thenewdaily.com.au

Accused mushroom triple-murderer fronts pre-trial court​

View attachment 579250
Accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson has been photographed for the first time since she was charged over a fatal mushroom lunch.

Patterson, 50, appeared in person at the Victorian Supreme Court on Tuesday for a hearing ahead of her upcoming trial.

She was wearing a green jumper, black plants and black sandals.

I don’t know if this is appropriate, but to me she looks a bit healthier than she did in her original pre-arrest photos.

IMO.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don’t know if this is appropriate, but to me she looks a bit healthier than she did in her original pre-arrest photos.

I think so too.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think I may have posted this before - but anyone interested in this case might like to read "The documents in the case", by Dorothy Sayers. I think you'll find it both informative and riveting.

Hi @Kemug ..... I decided to read The Documents in the Case after you posted again about it. Interesting story about liquifying fungi poison and adding it to a dish - a dish that then killed a man in an agonising manner.

The poisoner almost got away with his crime until the examining professional was encouraged to conduct one further test, which then proved that the poison was liquified by the poisoner. It was not the result of an accidental poisoning by fungi that the deceased had perhaps inadvertently picked and cooked himself.

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[JBowie]

“The 50-year-old was seen arriving at the Supreme Court of Victoria on Tuesday morning for a pre-trial hearing — the details of which cannot be reported under Victorian law. [bbm]

Google tells me: "In Victoria, pre-trial criminal hearings are generally open to the public, but the Open Courts Act 2011 (Vic) allows for suppression orders to restrict disclosure of reports or information derived from proceedings in certain circumstances."

So what is being withheld from the public at this stage in this case, hmmm?

 

[JBowie]

Full size photos in the Australian:

(Paywalled)

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/erin-patterson-accused-of-murdering-three-inlaws-with-death-cap-mushrooms-appears-in-court/news-story/d9aed3a681cec3b1c92ac2f819bdb502

 

[Kemug]

Hi @Kemug ..... I decided to read The Documents in the Case after you posted again about it. Interesting story about liquifying fungi poison and adding it to a dish - a dish that then killed a man in an agonising manner.

The poisoner almost got away with his crime until the examining professional was encouraged to conduct one further test, which then proved that the poison was liquified by the poisoner. It was not the result of an accidental poisoning by fungi that the deceased had perhaps inadvertently picked and cooked himself.

Thanks for the recommendation.

You're welcome!

 

[Marg944]

 

[SouthAussie]

Google tells me: "In Victoria, pre-trial criminal hearings are generally open to the public, but the Open Courts Act 2011 (Vic) allows for suppression orders to restrict disclosure of reports or information derived from proceedings in certain circumstances."

So what is being withheld from the public at this stage in this case, hmmm?

Might just be that publication of potential evidence is being withheld because they want a fair trial.

They are having the trial in her area, so the locals (who might be on the jury) will likely have great sympathy for the victims. There will be no geographical disconnect or distancing of any jury members.

If she still has Philip Dunn KC as her barrister, he likely would have ensured the Sec 198 hearings are suppressed.

imo