Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #7 *Arrest*

[SouthAussie]

I think many are not understanding the criteria for murder in australia. You don't even need intent to kill.

I think most of us understand, having followed many cases here.

The question is how much harm did EP (allegedly) intend to inflict.
The defence will minimise it - "it was a mistake".
The prosecution will maximise it - "it was murder".
Will there be reasonable doubt, which may lead the jury to acquit or elect to convict on the lesser charge of manslaughter?


Eg: one option
Manslaughter by unlawful dangerous act requires proof:

• The accused intentionally committed an unlawful act;
• That unlawful act was dangerous (a reasonable person in the same position would consider that act created an appreciable risk of serious injury);
• The unlawful and dangerous act was a substantial and operating cause of the death of the victim.

Crimes Act of 1958: Manslaughter Defence Lawyers Victoria

Crimes aAct of 1958: Our murder & manslaughter defence lawyers are extensively experienced in matters in the Supreme Court of Victoria. Call Now.

www.sherlawyers.com.au

 

[JBowie]

The prosecution will maximise it - "it was murder".

IMO, the Prosecution will need to work relentlessly at destroying her credibility in front of the jury. They will need to build the murder case bit by bit by establishing motive, demolishing lies and exposing character.

 

[LordCyrus]

There are 3 things that may decide Erin's fate, none of which have been publicly disclosed:
1) Forensic testing results for the dehydrator.
2) The testimony of the Pastor who survived the dinner.
3) What was found during police searches of the house.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I would think that in any criminal case, the prosecuting side would want to try to discredit the accused and paint them in as bad a light as legally possible.

They would not be doing their duty if they didn't.

 

[Bats]

Interestingly, there is an appeal against the DPP tomorrow. I'm not exactly sure what that could be for. Perhaps some evidence being brought by the prosecution?


Daily Hearing List

 

[SouthAussie]

Interestingly, there is an appeal against the DPP tomorrow. I'm not exactly sure what that could be for. Perhaps some evidence being brought by the prosecution?


Daily Hearing List

Another hearing. Maybe the continuation of their Sec 198 hearings?



The media are not allowed to talk about them, I don't think, because they are about witness evidence before the trial happens.

Remember the defence opted for Sec 198 hearings when they opted out of a committal hearing.

 

[LadyL]

Yes, I don't see any need for her to change her story: the story being, she bought mushrooms from two shops, and if there was poison in the meal she cooked, she doesn't know how it got there.

two shops??

 

[Marg944]

 

[JLZ]

two shops??

Ms Patterson said the mushrooms were a mixture of button mushrooms purchased at a major supermarket chain, and dried mushrooms bought at an Asian grocery store in Melbourne months previously.

Woman who cooked suspected poisoned meal details where she bought mushrooms

The woman who cooked a meal that is believed to have contained poisonous mushrooms and led to the deaths of three people gives a lengthy written statement to police detailing her account of what happened, and revealing she was hospitalised after the incident.

www.abc.net.au

There was also a story that police took Erin to Mt Waverley and she was unable to find the Asian grocery store again.

 

[JLZ]

There are 3 things that may decide Erin's fate, none of which have been publicly disclosed:
1) Forensic testing results for the dehydrator.
2) The testimony of the Pastor who survived the dinner.
3) What was found during police searches of the house.

Another thing, or I may have missed it. I understand that beef wellington takes some hours to prepare. Did anybody at all other than Erin have the opportunity to add ingredients along the way?

Plus I don't think we have clarity about how the dried mushrooms were stored. There was something about she brought them across from another residence?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

There are 3 things that may decide Erin's fate, none of which have been publicly disclosed:
1) Forensic testing results for the dehydrator.
2) The testimony of the Pastor who survived the dinner.
3) What was found during police searches of the house.

Also (IMO)

4) Testimony of her children who lived in the house with her at the time

 

[JBowie]

There was also a story that police took Erin to Mt Waverley and she was unable to find the Asian grocery store again.

Why are we not surprised?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm not surprised weeks or months later to not remember what shop I bought something in, in another town.
I can't remember some of the shops that I bought something from on recent travels, unless I kept the receipt.

Unless you kept a diary and I'm not sure how many do these days.

 

[Eaglette]

I'm not surprised weeks or months later to not remember what shop I bought something in, in another town.
I can't remember some of the shops that I bought something from on recent travels, unless I kept the receipt.

Unless you kept a diary and I'm not sure how many do these days.

My Samsung android mobile phone has location on and in a hidden section under Maps - it has a Timeline of where the phone has been every day !

So I can look back at a specific date and see how far I travelled - whether in car or walking - which shops I visited and the exact times I was there on a Map and also listed:

eg
Yesterday - (Car) 17km 39 mins - 3 visits
and then, it lists

HOME -
Left at 2.40pm

DRIVING
7.7km. 20 min
2.40pm - 3.00pm

VISITED: (NAME) the address and the time spent there - Coles (supermarket) etc. etc.

 

[Bats]

My Samsung android mobile phone has location on and in a hidden section under Maps - it has a Timeline of where the phone has been every day !

So I can look back at a specific date and see how far I travelled - whether in car or walking - which shops I visited and the exact times I was there on a Map and also listed:

eg
Yesterday - (Car) 17km 39 mins - 3 visits
and then, it lists

HOME -
Left at 2.40pm

DRIVING
7.7km. 20 min
2.40pm - 3.00pm

VISITED: (NAME) the address and the time spent there - Coles (supermarket) etc. etc.

I wonder what happens regarding that?
Presumably the investigators would need a warrant to seize her phone and all its data.
But what if she can't remember exactly which day she went shopping? The data is kind of useless. If her phone doesn't show that she went to a shop in Mount Waverley, it doesn't mean she didn't go to a shop in Mount Waverley.
If they're taking her to Mount Waverley to show them the store, then my guess is they're trying to get her to commit to a story.
Perhaps she honestly can't remember or perhaps she is doing what a defence laywer would advise and stay silent?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

So I can look back at a specific date and see how far I travelled - whether in car or walking - which shops I visited and the exact times I was there on a Map and also listed:

I was a bit annoyed when a friend threw the receipt away from a shop we visited.
I used to keep receipts as a reminder of holidays.

It's nice to have something you can hold in your hand.

Thanks for the tip, mine is an Android too. I'm not sure if I had location on though I did use google maps for spoken directions, so the motels we stayed at and family's places we visited are there.

I'm going to have a look to see if my phone has been keeping tabs on me.

It will be interesting to see what there is on Erins phone.
Maybe, like me she didn't know that phones are tracked to that extent, ie what shops you visited etc.

 

[JBowie]

I'm not surprised weeks or months later to not remember what shop I bought something in, in another town.

The reason that I'm not surprised because it is my suggestion that she did not go to any such shop. IMO she is flat out lying

 

[TootsieFootsie]

After reading everything I can on the case and listening to all podcasts, so far I have not been convinced of either innocence or guilt.
I'll wait for actual proof or a verdict one way or the other.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder what happens regarding that?
Presumably the investigators would need a warrant to seize her phone and all its data.

They definitely had warrants for her devices.

Remember how they brought in detection dogs and found more devices and device storage.


"In November last year, the AFP provided its technology detector dogs to assist our hard-working colleagues at Victoria Police while executing a search warrant relating to individuals who had ingested death cap mushrooms," Kershaw told a Senate estimates hearing.

"Technology Detector Dog Georgia found one USB, a micro secure digital card and a sim card.
"Technology Detector Dog Alma found a mobile phone, five IPads, a trail camera, and a secure digital card and a smart watch.
"These were not found during initial searches undertaken by officers."

What AFP dogs found in Erin Patterson's home revealed

www.9news.com.au

 

[LordCyrus]

police took Erin to Mt Waverley and she was unable to find the Asian grocery store

Very stupid of Erin to make voluntary statements early on and to go on a car ride with the police.

She would be in a much better position today had she said and done nothing during the investigation.