GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[Porky1]

But she prepared the meal on the day of the lunch (or the day before). I'm guessing all relevant items were cleaned/disposed of prior to the police search/interview a few days later.
MOO

Yes and no. The mushrooms were likely powdered in April after drying.

Powdered DCs sprinkled with a disposable spoon during assembly? Minimal contact? We won’t know for sure but I think there are ways to minimise contact and evidence. As a Sopranos fan, I remember bleach was used regularly.

 

[Porky1]

Especially when she had said she picked Slippery Jacks. But she was declaring she was very confident which seems at odds with claiming to have made a tragic mistake.

<modsnip: Image removed due to no link to source>

Thanks, I missed that one.

Iam surprised she didn’t use SJ’s to excuse her error.

 

[LinasK]

Not all graduates take up employment. Not all nurses work in hospitals. Lots of nurses work in clinics and aged care facilities.

If you distrust the medical system, you aren't applying to nursing school or working in a nursing home or clinic. I guarantee that.

 

[Procrastinator]

It was a careless mistake wasn’t it. If only she had disposed of it two months prior. I wonder how strong the case would be.

Iam still not convinced she planned to murder five guests, but an attempt to make them sick is certainly where Iam sitting. Not sick enough to go to hospital, and certainly not to undergo toxin testing in the timeframe required for a positive result.

If EP (allegedly) wanted to make them sick only, why use DC mushrooms which is more likely to cause death. EP could have used previously what was given to SP x3 (allegedly) IMOO

 

[SarahSherlock]

Has it been said, why EP dehydrated the mushrooms, as roughly 50g would be enough of a DC mushroom to more than likely kill someone 70kgs (that’s just one good size mushroom). As dehydrated mushrooms as well as making them into a powder seems OTT. Unless she thought the powder wouldn’t be traceable within the body?

 

[Porky1]

and hated hospitals ...

Maybe she had plans to start a home birthing business, given her fear of hospitals. She enrolled in Nursing & Midwifery.

 

[Two SCents]

If you distrust the medical system, you aren't applying to nursing school or working in a nursing home or clinic. I guarantee that.

Or.... you study nursing so you gain more knowledge about the things you fear? She seems to me to be the type who wants to know more than those around her.

 

[LinasK]

Or.... you study nursing so you gain more knowledge about the things you fear?

Not likely. It was the professionals and the environment she didn't trust. She never attended nursing classes.

 

[Porky1]

If EP (allegedly) wanted to make them sick only, why use DC mushrooms which is more likely to cause death. EP could have used previously what was given to SP x3 (allegedly) IMOO

Do you think that it was simply moving on to another poison to disguise the pattern?

 

[katydid23]

"Erin says she now believes foraged mushrooms may have made their way into the lunch due to a mistake about the contents of a tupperware container in her pantry"
Erin Patterson says estranged husband asked her about poisoning his parents — as it happened

"Erin says she now believes foraged mushrooms may have made their way into the lunch due to a mistake about the contents of a tupperware container in her pantry"​

Oh my, look at the wording above^^^^----"... the mushrooms may have made their way into the lunch? "
How do mushrooms make their way into the meal?
Another quote from EP:
"I was starting to think: what if they’d gone in the container with the Chinese mushrooms? Maybe that had happened."
'... what if they'd gone into the container' with the Chinese mushrooms?

Have I ever seen a sentence with less personal accountability, ever?

So the foraged mushrooms had gone into the container ? How did they do that? She just erased HERSELF from the equation.

Not withstanding that there were probably never any Asian Market mushrooms to add them to anyway.

​

Erin Patterson says estranged husband asked her about poisoning his parents — as it happened

Erin Patterson is giving evidence for a third day in her triple-murder trial in Morwell. She's accused of murdering three relatives by serving them a meal that contained poisonous mushrooms. Look back at how Wednesday's hearing unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

By Judd Boaz​

Erin tells the court the accusation from Simon triggered her to reflect on the lunch.

"It caused me to do a lot of thinking about a lot of things," she says.

"I was starting to think: what if they’d gone in the container with the Chinese mushrooms? Maybe that had happened."

She tells the court it made her feel scared and worried because child protection was now involved.

Erin tells the court that knowing child protection workers were on their way to her home, she decided to throw out her dehydrator.

She says she was worried she would be blamed for making her lunch guests sick, so went to dispose the dehydrator at the Koonwarra tip.
Erin Patterson says estranged husband asked her about poisoning his parents — as it happened

"It was a process over several months in the lead-up to it, but when I got to a point where I was confident about what I thought they were … I cut a bit off one of the mushrooms, fried it up with some butter, ate it, and then saw what happened," she said.
Erin Patterson tells jury she accepts death cap mushrooms were in meal

OK, let's look at this^^^ in context---she was NOT saying that she taste tested the DC mushrooms she served her lunch guests. Here is the full context of that^^^ quote:

Ms Patterson told the court she had developed an interest in wild mushrooms in early 2020 when she and her children would go for walks at the Korumburra Botanic Gardens and surrounding areas during lockdown.

"It was a process over several months in the lead-up to it, but when I got to a point where I was confident about what I thought they were … I cut a bit off one of the mushrooms, fried it up with some butter, ate it, and then saw what happened," she said.

{so this story about last testing was described as happening in 2020 when she taste tested some. ----She was not referring to the DC that she served to her in-laws.]

Yes, the context around my question of recklessness is lost and has long passed now. No relevance at all, to the above.

I think her recklessness is very relevant. I think it will be discussed for quite awhile, imo.

 

[Procrastinator]

Do you think that it was simply moving on to another poison to disguise the pattern?

I guess only EP can answer that one IMOO

 

[hellsbells7]

Do you think that it was simply moving on to another poison to disguise the pattern?

Bingo IMO... I've always thought the timing of the lunch and the dehydrated mushrooms was interesting to say the least... Surely any doctor wouldnt suspect death cap poisoning right in the middle of Winter.... I think a lot of things after that didn't go to plan

 

[katydid23]

It was a careless mistake wasn’t it. If only she had disposed of it two months prior. I wonder how strong the case would be.

Iam still not convinced she planned to murder five guests, but an attempt to make them sick is certainly where Iam sitting. Not sick enough to go to hospital, and certainly not to undergo toxin testing in the timeframe required for a positive result.

I just can't get onboard with the theory she just wanted them to get sick.

She fed them DEATH CAPS---one of the most toxic natural substances known to man.

And she weighed them out. And powdered them to disguise them. And meticulously crafted 6 separate BW's. So she knew how much poison was in each serving. Way more than necessary to make one just feel unwell.

 

[BreakingNews]

<modsnip>

Did not have a history of foraging mushrooms (e.g., this wasn't something she did regularly and happened by accident). Looked up death cap locations on her devicePhone was pinged in the area of those locations on her device

The dehydrator was purchased the same day as visiting death cap sites. Lied about having cancer to get people to attend the lunch under false pretenses

She chose to make individual portions over one big meal.

She specifically made individual meals to poison those at the lunch and keep herself safe, individual portions, and different plates.

She sought out deathcaps specifically, was in the location, and bought a dehydrator to store and preserve them

Had a different colored plate than everyone else

Misled health officials first, there were no death caps in the food, then the death caps came from a Chinese store, which she couldn't name

There was no evidence of any Chinese mushrooms being in the meal or her ever purchasing a product from a Chinese store

Or that death caps have ever ended up in Australia and sold in a retail setting, or that death caps are even found in China.

Was the only person with no documented illness from the lunch

Avoided hospital care / when notified that they had consumed death cap mushrooms from a meal that they all shared and she supposedly said she fed them to her kids

She didn't immediately seek medical care for herself and her children

Dumped the dehydrator about owning a dehydrator to investigatorsDehydrator contained traces of death cap mushrooms

The dumped dehydrator with the death cap traces in it is enough evidence of intent for me.

Wiped phones/evidence as police investigated, with phone A still missing

The only evidence against any of these things that I've seen comes from what Erin has said - but she has repeatedly proven herself to be a liar before, during, and after the investigation

<modsnip>

Respectfully, she does not have to prove her innocence. The prosecution has to prove she intentionally used DC to kill. Is she saying she did it unknowingly? Maybe she didn't mean for them to die? Only meant to make them sick. To me, that would be manslaughter. Wonder what legal grounds the judge used to take manslaughter off the table? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The not being ready to just leave everything and be admitted to hospital is something I would do.

If I turn up thinking I'll be going home afterwards and it's insisted they admit me, I'd be worried about things like needing to pick the kids up, make sure the house was secure and pick up a few needed things.

I think she had to really rely on herself when it came to the kids. I really think there wasn't anyone she could rely on.
I think she'd been on her own really, right from the beginning.

I'd worry that I hadn't set my house security up, lights etc and knowing me I'd be concerned that I hadn't locked all windows and doors, and then there's the dog.

There would very likely be things she would need if she was away from home, like any medications toothbrush etc.

EP it seems was quite alone and it doesn't make her a bad person.

 

[katydid23]

Do you mean when she left against advice and returned 40mins later? That was on Monday 31st July. She took the dehydrator to the tip on Wednesday 2nd of August. The morning after having a conversation about it with the children and Simon in the hospital and after the visit from Ms Cripps the child protection officer.

Right---I muddled those days together, sorry. But I do think she was panicking when she learned they had identified Dash Caps as the culprit.

And the hospital was calling her and even mentioned they reported it to the police that her children needed to come in.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Plenty of people start courses and end up not finishing them.

It doesn't mean they are at fault.

Life throws lots of things at you and maybe real life circumstances didn't allow her to continue.

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully, she does not have to prove her innocence. The prosecution has to prove she intentionally used DC to kill. Is she saying she did it unknowingly? Maybe she didn't mean for them to die? Only meant to make them sick. To me, that would be manslaughter. Wonder what legal grounds the judge used to take manslaughter off the table? Anyone have any ideas?

If she only wanted to make them sick, why choose lethal death caps?

And she weighed the death caps and made individual servings. So she had control over the dosage.

Why did they end up so severely ill so quickly if this was just a prank to make them unwell?

 

[SarahSherlock]

Respectfully, she does not have to prove her innocence. The prosecution has to prove she intentionally used DC to kill. Is she saying she did it unknowingly? Maybe she didn't mean for them to die? Only meant to make them sick. To me, that would be manslaughter. Wonder what legal grounds the judge used to take manslaughter off the table? Anyone have any ideas?

In an Australian murder trial, a jury does not have to find a defendant guilty of murder. If the prosecution fails to prove all elements of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, or if a partial defense like provocation or excessive self-defense is accepted, the jury can find the defendant guilty of manslaughter instead

 

[katydid23]

The not being ready to just leave everything and be admitted to hospital is something I would do.

If I turn up thinking I'll be going home afterwards and it's insisted they admit me, I'd be worried about things like needing to pick the kids up, make sure the house was secure and pick up a few needed things.

I think she had to really rely on herself when it came to the kids. I really think there wasn't anyone she could rely on.
I think she'd been on her own really, right from the beginning.

I'd worry that I hadn't set my house security up, lights etc and knowing me I'd be concerned that I hadn't locked all windows and doors, and then there's the dog.

There would very likely be things she would need if she was away from home, like any medications toothbrush etc.

EP it seems was quite alone and it doesn't make her a bad person.

Except Simon was fully capable of picking up the kids and did so.

Her main excuse was her daughter's ballet rehearsal bag had to be packed. That seems very trivial concerning the dire circumstances. I'm sure Simon could secure her doors and feed the lambs as well.