GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[Tortoise]

Reasonable

• logical
• rational
• valid
• coherent
• good
• sensible

Unreasonable

• irrational
• unwarranted
• unfounded
• baseless
• unsupported
• invalid
• unnecessary
• groundless
• unsubstantiated
• unreasoned
• absurd
• false
• illogical

Definition of UNREASONABLE

not governed by or acting according to reason; not conformable to reason : absurd; exceeding the bounds of reason or moderation… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I think in some ways the word unreasonable is more illustrative of the measure that should be used to weigh evidence, than beyond a reasonable doubt.

Reasonable, whilst adequate in the most basic sense, just seems to me to be something some people could adapt to explanations or situations which are not really that reasonable.

For instance, is it reasonable or unreasonable to think that one would get rid of evidence because they think they will be suspected and then convicted of a crime? Conversely, is it reasonable or unreasonable to keep evidence to prove they are not guilty of a crime?

I think reasonable might be construed by some individuals as possible and within the bounds of what some people, unlike them, might do, whereas thinking in terms of what is 'unreasonable' is more likely to highlight what is odd and not supported by logic or common sense.

Just my musings.

 

[ch_13]

But whilst you have asked.... how can it be "reckless" when as you say, you "inadvertently" serve them to people?

Are you serious? Yes, recklessness can arise out of ignorance. If this happened at a restaurant, you would not consider the chef's behavior reckless? In all likelihood the chef would be facing charges of negligent manslaughter.

And, yes. That has happened before: Chef sentenced after one killed and 31 left ill by undercooked shepherd’s pie

 

[Bats]

Are you serious? Yes, recklessness can arise out of ignorance. If this happened at a restaurant, you would not consider the chef's behavior reckless? In all likelihood the chef would be facing charges of negligent manslaughter.

And, yes. That has happened before: Chef sentenced after one killed and 31 left ill by undercooked shepherd’s pie

Yes, I am serious.

"Inadvertently" - without intention; accidentally.

"Can recklessness be accidental?"
No, recklessness cannot be accidental in the legal sense. Recklessness implies a conscious disregard for a known risk.

 

[Salah11]

I just can not fathom how anybody can believe this was an accident.

She loved mushrooms and yet she left poisoned mushrooms in the pantry untouched for months. She was never tempted to eat them at any stage and she just happened to then serve them in individual pies for lunch which she escaped unharmed from. She also ate a boat load of mushrooms in the days leading up to fateful lunch but never the poisoned ones even though from her own account they were more flavourful.

It’s just farcical

 

[ch_13]

Yes, I am serious.

"Inadvertently" - without intention; accidentally.

"Can recklessness be accidental?"
No, recklessness cannot be accidental in the legal sense. Recklessness implies a conscious disregard for a known risk.

All right, I'm not going to argue word definitions with you. Those arguments always get a bit silly.

I'm just going to say that people can be reckless even if they don't mean to be. And many people are in jail today because they acted negligently.

Do you deny that if a chef did what Erin claimed to do, they would not be facing legal consequences?

I'll let you have the last word.

 

[Bats]

Do you deny that if a chef did what Erin claimed to do, they would not be facing legal consequences?

I'll let you have the last word.

RSBM

I definitely agree that if a person who has killed others, whether it be their cooking, unsafe workplace etc..should be held accountable, by law, as is being done currently with Erin.

 

[whiskia]

I just can not fathom how anybody can believe this was an accident.

She loved mushrooms and yet she left poisoned mushrooms in the pantry untouched for months. She was never tempted to eat them at any stage and she just happened to then serve them in individual pies for lunch which she escaped unharmed from. She also ate a boat load of mushrooms in the days leading up to fateful lunch but never the poisoned ones even though from her own account they were more flavourful.

It’s just farcical

Added to that it seems that even 'harvesting' Death Caps has some element of danger, hence the advice is to wear gloves. Surely it then follows to do so during chopping, dehydrating and powdering? So if Erin did this innocently why did she not get sick beforehand? And if she did manage to avoid getting sick, how did she do so and if she was wearing gloves at the time why else would she have taken that precaution??? JMO

 

[MIG214222]

"...she was also at one stage involved in nursing classes; which I think would negate her being ‘reckless’ with health."

RSBM
Hi @SarahSherlock,
(imo) not necessarily & besides - little-ms-muffet appears to have 'deferred' her nursing ambitions:

She had been accepted, but deferred, a degree in nursing and midwifery at Federation University.

Which considering her inability to communicate potentially-life-saving-information is a good thingx3.

I trust the Jury is working hard to come to a just decision.

MO s

 

[potr]

it’s been stated by several sources that she is highly intelligent - she was also at one stage involved in nursing classes; which I think would negate her being ‘reckless’ with health.

she had only "applied" to go into nursing - not attended yet

 

[Salah11]

she had only "applied" to go into nursing - not attended yet

Let’s hope that never happens as I wouldn’t trust her with a goldfish let alone somebody else’s health.

 

[jesse]

I believe it is automatically an option in Victoria, unless the judge specifically excludes it. IMO

Did the judge mention that? He gave them endless instructions, if this is the case I hope he made that clear.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes a person who has deliberately killed anyone should be held accountable by law.

 

[Salah11]

Yes a person who has deliberately killed anyone should be held accountable by law.

Do you believe there should be consequences for perverting the course of justice?

 

[MsMarple]

Do you believe there should be consequences for perverting the course of justice?

I’m not the OP but I certainly believe in consequences for perverting justice.

Both Megan Boswell and Leilani Simon were convicted of giving false information and tampering with evidence. Erin confessed to doing both in her own testimony.

I don’t know why she wasn’t officially charged with either; perhaps the prosecution wanted to keep a complicated case a little easier to focus on. This has been an exhausting trial!

 

[katydid23]

I think the son did say in his police interview that he had issues with his father?

Yes, but he was saying his father was always trying to hurt his mother's feelings, etc. His issues with his father were partially because of things his mother told him.

EP also said her son didn't like to go to his Dad's because his Dad was always too tired, etc. But maybe that was because of his mysterious gastric issue, which eventually were traced back to EP?

I think some of the prior issues with his Dad might have worked themselves out over time and new circumstances.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I believe he said they "never do anything on the weekends" when they stayed with SP.

Yes, but I don't think the son took into account that his father had been near death and in a coma recently. He may have matured enough now to understand the bigger picture.

 

[katydid23]

Of course but isn’t that ‘allegedly’?

No, the defense admits that she did dehydrate Death Caps and they were in Tupperware in her pantry. Not allegedly but admittedly.

 

[Salah11]

I don’t know Law in Australia so if she is found not guilty can the family still do a civil case?

I mean she has admitted she lied and perverted the course of justice so surely there should be repercussions!

 

[katydid23]

How is it "reckless" if she didn't know at the time? That's her testimony isn't it?

It is reckless on many levels. You say she 'didn't know' at the time. That is why it was reckless. She did not attempt to figure out if her foraged mushrooms were safe or not.

She picked wild mushrooms, which she admitted were growing beside Oak Trees---which is a well known indicator of Death Cap locations. That should have been a red flag.

She picked these wild mushrooms, by Oaks, and these mushrooms had the physical characteristics of Death Caps. [We can see that from the pictures she posted of them]

She did not try to identify if these were safe to eat. She did not ask others to help identify them or compare them to unsafe types. If she had she would have discarded them immediately.

She went ahead, recklessly, without checking for safety, and she dehydrated them and put them in her pantry.

And 3 people died from eating at her table.

 

[katydid23]

it’s been stated by several sources that she is highly intelligent - she was also at one stage involved in nursing classes; which I think would negate her being ‘reckless’ with health.

THAT^^^ is just another one of her falsehoods.

She was 'at one stage involved in nursing classes' just like she was 'at one stage scheduled for bariatric surgery' and just like she was 'at one stage scheduled for chemo for ovarian cancer.'