GUILTY Australia - Lynette Dawson, 34, Sydney, Jan 1982 *Arrest* #4

[JustInterested77]

The thing that gets me about these guys is the complete disrespect for women.
Not only the DV and cheating and murdering and cover up.
But how would they like it if other men did this to their own daughters?
They were doing all this to someone else's daughters.

(I don't know if Paul has a daughter, but hypothetically if he doesn't.)

My thoughts exactly!!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's just my thinking that he might just want to be alone in prison.

I'm not trying to make light of anyone thinking suicidal thoughts.

I really would not wish that on any person.

 

[JLZ]

Outside court, Mr Walsh said there were grounds for appeal.

"I believe that there are certainly grounds of appeal. I could not express a proper view at this stage as to my level of confidence. His honour put in extraordinary effort into his judgment," Mr Walsh said.

Mr Walsh said he needed to give careful consideration to the magistrate's judgment which extends over 268 pages but he will keep an eye out for key issues.

"There are some aspects which come to mind for example intention to kill, the circumstances under which his honour was satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he killed his wife when there was a complete absence of any such evidence...it seems the only strand that was left was his obsessional sexual relationship with JC," he said.

Chris Dawson prosecutors deny being influenced by Teacher's Pet podcast

NSW prosecutors deny being influenced by a popular podcast in the decision to prosecute former Sydney teacher Chris Dawson over the murder of his wife Lynette amid national and international media attention.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Trooper]

I didn't hear the judge explain how he found that CD had the specific mens rea for murder. 'Conscious and voluntary' is not sufficient. It might have been in what I missed after the streaming stopped. Otherwise, ground for appeal? I thought the lawyer's choice of words was interesting when he said that CD had always maintained his innocence of the crime of which he was convicted . . . not that CD was innocent of killing Lyn. I can think of a possible manslaughter scenario: he overdrugged her to avoid the sex part of their sexy celebration, not with the intention of killing her or inflicting grievous bodily harm. Perhaps I should add, I don't believe that happened. I believe it was murder.

Way back, the manslaughter charge would have been floated. That was the time for Dawson to ante up, break down,, tell all, proffer the body, etc.. There was no provision in a judge only trial to consider both murder, manslaughter, criminal negligence, etc etc etc.. Dawson maintained his position re innocence, he chose a judge only trial, and thats how it goes.

For manslaughter , he has to admit she's dead, that he killed her, however he did it, that he interfered with her corpse, by moving it and hiding it , by civil disobedience reporting her missing, when he knew where she was because he put her there., and so on..

He cannot go back now and say, well. ... as a matter of fact, I just remembered I did knock her around a bit and... ,

He would have to prove , to a judges satisfaction that everything he has said up until now is a lie, and it was all a bit of fun and games that went wrong. He has managed to satisfy a judge that he is lying, has lied, but also, as Harrison pointed out, it wasn't just that he murdered Lynn was one explanation, it was the only explanation that fitted all the criteria, and left no room, none at all, for doubt about that conclusion.

On appeal, he has to provide evidence that it was all a terrible mistake. .... this will be in direct opposition to the Harrison's formed view that there is no other explanation that can be rationally believed. He was firm on this, no other explanation at all.


Dawson took a gamble. He could have admitted it, it was an accident, he was frightened, he 'll plead guilty to manslaughter,.... but he refused.. he chose not to have a Jury trial.. He did not enter the witness box ( I know , this is not to be taken as guilty, but Dawson had nothing to lose by the time this went to trial ,) he should have gone up and been cross examined, if it was manslaughter.

But he didn't. He went for broke, and broke is what he got!..

 

[Trooper]

Chris Dawson prosecutors deny being influenced by Teacher's Pet podcast

NSW prosecutors deny being influenced by a popular podcast in the decision to prosecute former Sydney teacher Chris Dawson over the murder of his wife Lynette amid national and international media attention.

www.abc.net.au

Constant threats?? he's only spent one night in prison, and that in the special ward.. I don't believe a smidgen of that. Someone would have been yelling and hollering in that section of the prison, which is why it is an area to put the unhinged ones for a while until the medication kicks in , or boredom takes over.

No reason why Dawson shouldn't be shouted at, though. Most everyone is there, and most deserve it, and most join in shouting at the next arrival. Dawson will be up for that, I take him to be a man of real shuttered down violence. Why should Dawson not be yelled at? nothing special about him.

I sincerely hope we are not meant to be offended on behalf of Dawson that some poor wretch, having had a bit of biffo from the NSW Pol, and now takes it upon himself to call Dawson rude names.. .... Dawson can help himself a lot in there, by settling down and shutting up.

 

[Trooper]

Another thing, ... I greet with a bucket ful of skepticism that the NSW detectives 'have a lead' on where Lynn's body could be. This smacks of a group of folks having taken on board a bit of a hiding about years of slackness and now wanting to appear galvanised into action...

 

[JLZ]

Way back, the manslaughter charge would have been floated. That was the time for Dawson to ante up, break down,, tell all, proffer the body, etc.. There was no provision in a judge only trial to consider both murder, manslaughter, criminal negligence, etc etc etc.. Dawson maintained his position re innocence, he chose a judge only trial, and thats how it goes.

For manslaughter , he has to admit she's dead, that he killed her, however he did it, that he interfered with her corpse, by moving it and hiding it , by civil disobedience reporting her missing, when he knew where she was because he put her there., and so on..

He cannot go back now and say, well. ... as a matter of fact, I just remembered I did knock her around a bit and... ,

He would have to prove , to a judges satisfaction that everything he has said up until now is a lie, and it was all a bit of fun and games that went wrong. He has managed to satisfy a judge that he is lying, has lied, but also, as Harrison pointed out, it wasn't just that he murdered Lynn was one explanation, it was the only explanation that fitted all the criteria, and left no room, none at all, for doubt about that conclusion.

On appeal, he has to provide evidence that it was all a terrible mistake. .... this will be in direct opposition to the Harrison's formed view that there is no other explanation that can be rationally believed. He was firm on this, no other explanation at all.


Dawson took a gamble. He could have admitted it, it was an accident, he was frightened, he 'll plead guilty to manslaughter,.... but he refused.. he chose not to have a Jury trial.. He did not enter the witness box ( I know , this is not to be taken as guilty, but Dawson had nothing to lose by the time this went to trial ,) he should have gone up and been cross examined, if it was manslaughter.

But he didn't. He went for broke, and broke is what he got!..

I disagree. It told against GBC that he didn't tell some such story because he took the stand--and because it was a jury trial.

I had the impression that CD's judge relied heavily on the lies as proving guilty knowledge. I somewhat vaguely recollect from the GBC appeals--the successful Supreme Court appeal and the High Court counter-appeal which overturned it--that it's a legal principle that evidence of guilty knowledge cannot distinguish between guilt of murder and guilt of manslaughter.

Possibly the defence wanted a plea bargain and it was the prosecution who wouldn't be in it. Of course CD could have pleaded guilty to manslaughter anyway, and had the admission that he caused Lyn's death used against him in the murder trial.

I've been looking for the judgement but it doesn't seem to be up yet.

 

[Annalize]

Chris Dawson prosecutors deny being influenced by Teacher's Pet podcast

NSW prosecutors deny being influenced by a popular podcast in the decision to prosecute former Sydney teacher Chris Dawson over the murder of his wife Lynette amid national and international media attention.

www.abc.net.au

Constant threats?? he's only spent one night in prison, and that in the special ward.. I don't believe a smidgen of that. Someone would have been yelling and hollering in that section of the prison, which is why it is an area to put the unhinged ones for a while until the medication kicks in , or boredom takes over.

No reason why Dawson shouldn't be shouted at, though. Most everyone is there, and most deserve it, and most join in shouting at the next arrival. Dawson will be up for that, I take him to be a man of real shuttered down violence. Why should Dawson not be yelled at? nothing special about him.

I sincerely hope we are not meant to be offended on behalf of Dawson that some poor wretch, having had a bit of biffo from the NSW Pol, and now takes it upon himself to call Dawson rude names.. .... Dawson can help himself a lot in there, by settling down and shutting up.

A huge percentage of people in custody have had abusive childhoods.. by parents, teachers and others in authority.. a huge percentage have had fractured relationships with family.. have been in the Foster Care system through no fault of their own ..should they be kind to a predator of children who brutally disposed of a loving mother.. The Dawson clan just do not understand that their behaviour is abhorrent and highly offensive and criminal

 

[Cliff Hardy]

I am now wondering back to what Paul Dawson said immediately after the verdict was handed down :

"I told that woman!"

You told that woman what, Paul?

Did you tell that woman - Pauline David - pretrial, that Chris looked like going down for this and he'd be better off plea bargaining?

I wonder...

 

[Trooper]

I disagree. It told against GBC that he didn't tell some such story because he took the stand--and because it was a jury trial.

I had the impression that CD's judge relied heavily on the lies as proving guilty knowledge. I somewhat vaguely recollect from the GBC appeals--the successful Supreme Court appeal and the High Court counter-appeal which overturned it--that it's a legal principle that evidence of guilty knowledge cannot distinguish between guilt of murder and guilt of manslaughter.

Possibly the defence wanted a plea bargain and it was the prosecution who wouldn't be in it. Of course CD could have pleaded guilty to manslaughter anyway, and had the admission that he caused Lyn's death used against him in the murder trial.

I've been looking for the judgement but it doesn't seem to be up yet.

It won't be up, JLZ, until 11th, Nov, along with the sentencing.. that's what the mumurring in the court was about, because the judge, while having read out a great deal of his judgement, it was not all going to be read, and the full and final judgement would , with the agreement of all, barrister, prosecutor, etc be on the 11th.


I am uncertain that Dawson would have entertained any idea that he would plead guilty to manslaughter. Since the DPP was going for the bullseye target, they would not have offered him anything like a chance to defend a manslaughter charge, if he wanted to get a drop down from murder , he would have to plead guilty to MS.

But that would have required him to admit it all. . All of it. The planning, the predication, ( the law only requires seconds of predication ) ..how did he know she was dead, was she buried while still alive, for give me, he would have had to detail everything. Everything.

 

[JLZ]

I am now wondering back to what Paul Dawson said immediately after the verdict was handed down :

"I told that woman!"

You told that woman what, Paul?

Did you tell that woman - Pauline David - pretrial, that Chris looked like going down for this and he'd be better off plea bargaining?

I wonder...

Incredible, that 'that woman', who is now a District Court judge, didn't take legal advice from a certified male.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Incredible, that 'that woman', who is now a District Court judge, didn't take legal advice from a certified male.

Without trying to sound like I am defending Paul or Chris Dawson, I thought Pauline David's performance was under par and I got the distinct impression judge Ian Harrison did too.

Perhaps Pauline David realized they had nothing to work with and just decided to cloud things at every opportunity? Just about everything she raised was shot down by Harrison. She really didn't land a decisive blow at any point in the trial.

 

[Trooper]

I am now wondering back to what Paul Dawson said immediately after the verdict was handed down :

"I told that woman!"

You told that woman what, Paul?

Did you tell that woman - Pauline David - pretrial, that Chris looked like going down for this and he'd be better off plea bargaining?

I wonder...

I bet someone did. No one could be that silly. and not try and bargain around it. But, I reckon, if Chris , somewhere down the line blabs,..and he has dementia, so it is possible that he becomes uninhibited about it all,.he is going to drop the entire family into the pit.

The Prosecutor, ( DPP ) did a sterling job. A murder case totally reliant on circumstantial evidence, is not common, and requires tremendous attention to detail, and a real upside to this is, to counter such evidence requires a far better liar than Dawson, who left a trail of nonsense about Lynn all over Sydney.

At 74, he could hardly be expected to remember the passion, the feral contempt , the urgency he had back when he was 31... he knows he had it, but it is hard to actually retrieve the feelings.. I bet he asks himself why? why? what was it?

 

[bfew]

It won't be up, JLZ, until 11th, Nov, along with the sentencing.. that's what the mumurring in the court was about, because the judge, while having read out a great deal of his judgement, it was not all going to be read, and the full and final judgement would , with the agreement of all, barrister, prosecutor, etc be on the 11th.

So are you saying that today's reports of the defence legal (Walsh) reading through the >268 page judgement document, is part of a process, where if the defence does not agree with something in the draft judgement document that the defence is currently reviewing, there might be further revisions to it?

Where did you hear that it won't be publicly released until the 11th? I don't recall hearing that during the last minute of the livestream in court yesterday. Was there in court discussion after the live stream was switched off yesterday to this effect?

Chris Dawson facing 'constant threats' in prison, court told

Dawson was convicted of the 1982 murder of his wife Lynette, on Sydney's Northern Beaches.

www.9news.com.au

'Walsh said he was also still reading through Justice Ian Harrison's lengthy judgement to see if there are grounds for appeal.'

Chris Dawson prosecutors deny being influenced by Teacher's Pet podcast

NSW prosecutors deny being influenced by a popular podcast in the decision to prosecute former Sydney teacher Chris Dawson over the murder of his wife Lynette amid national and international media attention.

www.abc.net.au

'Mr Walsh said he needed to give careful consideration to the magistrate's judgment which extends over 268 pages but he will keep an eye out for key issues. '

 

[bfew]

Pauline David's performance

She's now working 100% for the NSW Government (from 1 Aug) as one of 3 newly appointed District Court Judges.

One would assume that her interest in applying for that position might have commenced many moons ago.

I wonder at what point (if at any point prior to signed the contract for her commencing her NSW Government employment) she would have been required to declare her interest in working for NSW Government as a Judge, to any of the people or organisations she was legally representing? (due to there possibly being a perceived conflict of interest)

Three accomplished lawyers appointed to District Court

Three accomplished NSW lawyers have been appointed to the District Court of NSW, each bringing to the court a depth of knowledge and experience as legal practitioners.

www.dcj.nsw.gov.au

 

[Trooper]

So are you saying that today's reports of the defence legal (Walsh) reading through the >268 page judgement document, is part of a process, where if the defence does not agree with something in the draft judgement document that the defence is currently reviewing, there might be further revisions to it?

Where did you hear that it won't be publicly released until the 11th? I don't recall hearing that during the last minute of the livestream in court yesterday. Was there in court discussion after the live stream was switched off yesterday to this effect?

Chris Dawson facing 'constant threats' in prison, court told

Dawson was convicted of the 1982 murder of his wife Lynette, on Sydney's Northern Beaches.

www.9news.com.au

'Walsh said he was also still reading through Justice Ian Harrison's lengthy judgement to see if there are grounds for appeal.'

Chris Dawson prosecutors deny being influenced by Teacher's Pet podcast

NSW prosecutors deny being influenced by a popular podcast in the decision to prosecute former Sydney teacher Chris Dawson over the murder of his wife Lynette amid national and international media attention.

www.abc.net.au

'Mr Walsh said he needed to give careful consideration to the magistrate's judgment which extends over 268 pages but he will keep an eye out for key issues. '

No. That is not what I am saying, nor is it what the judge said. What the judge said was , that he would not be reading out the full judgement, that there was more in his judgement that would be in the CaseLaw record on line, and this would be published on NOV 11th concurrent with sentencing. This was agreed to by the prosecutor, and the defence.

It is not usual, but it does happen sometimes. It does not mean any changes to that which the judge has already tabled as 'The Judgement'. just that he didn't read it all out, and that would be corrected NOV11th.


Where did I hear that? since you ask so politely, I am happy to say, that's what was said, and I think I heard it correctly, but I am always up for correction, as I pointed out in my original post referring to this, that it was between the judge, the prosecutor, and the defence, both of whom agreed to this proposal.

 

[Trooper]

Without trying to sound like I am defending Paul or Chris Dawson, I thought Pauline David's performance was under par and I got the distinct impression judge Ian Harrison did too.

Perhaps Pauline David realized they had nothing to work with and just decided to cloud things at every opportunity? Just about everything she raised was shot down by Harrison. She really didn't land a decisive blow at any point in the trial.

Ms David had a very feeble case to present. She certainly went at it with a will, but she had a colossal handicap.

And really, once the judge began dismissing all those 'eye witnesses' who 'saw ' Lynn, Ms David had a big bag of bugger all to work with., It must have been a very fraught case to defend, which is what they are trained for, but it can be hard , for sure.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Ms David had a very feeble case to present. She certainly went at it with a will, but she had a colossal handicap.

And really, once the judge began dismissing all those 'eye witnesses' who 'saw ' Lynn, Ms David had a big bag of bugger all to work with., It must have been a very fraught case to defend, which is what they are trained for, but it can be hard , for sure.

I think Craig Everson and Pauline David both had difficult tasks. This was a most unusual case and I think Everson rose to the task and David didn't. But agreed, David didn't have a lot of any substance to work with.

Hard to believe David has progressed to the role of judge after that lackluster performance. I wonder what her and Greg Walsh's instructions were to Dawson pretrial? Surely they knew a house of cards when she saw one?

 

[bfew]

No. That is not what I am saying, nor is it what the judge said. What the judge said was , that he would not be reading out the full judgement, that there was more in his judgement that would be in the CaseLaw record on line, and this would be published on NOV 11th concurrent with sentencing. This was agreed to by the prosecutor, and the defence.

It is not usual, but it does happen sometimes. It does not mean any changes to that which the judge has already tabled as 'The Judgement'. just that he didn't read it all out, and that would be corrected NOV11th.


Where did I hear that? since you ask so politely, I am happy to say, that's what was said, and I think I heard it correctly, but I am always up for correction, as I pointed out in my original post referring to this, that it was between the judge, the prosecutor, and the defence, both of whom agreed to this proposal.

Thanks for clarifying this.

My recollection of that last minute of the live streaming was a bit shaky.

 

[drsleuth]

I read / listened to an article this morning ( that I now can't find ) that had Chris Reason ( chanel 7 ) talking at the end in a video & he mentioned that the second trial may not go a head now?

Anyone else see it or can find it?