Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have this, but can't swear to all of it:
View attachment 337113


I thought the same so contacted Manor Farm Oast House to see if they still have records from 1997. They do and kindly checked for me and there was no record of MB or FNMR staying there then.

They did say that in 1997 there was another oast house in the village offering accommodation but it has since shut down and been converted into apartments.

They also told me that a man visited a few months ago asking the same questions and they looked for the two names he asked for. They also looked for a Dutch couple Marion said she had met but got no results.

The case was in their local paper a few weeks ago which may jog some memories.
 
Wasn't the Chusan a delayed departure due to weather, I thought it was due to sail Dec 70? Bit of a vague memory, but thought that was why RB was in the same hotel as DDH and family..of course if this was RB's evidence might not be right....
Yes it was delayed
I’m sure there are records of other people being on the Chusan at the same time. In naa record search if you search Chusan 1971 it should come up

Yes there are… departing westbound to south Hampton.

it’s weird online I cannot find 1970 schedule but can find 1971


http://www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/po1971.htm

 
Looking on NAA, using "Chusan" as a search term, it appears there is a ship Chusan departing San Francisco USA 12/2/71 and a ship Chusan arriving 10/3/71 in Sydney.
I’ve been trying to find 1970 to see if there was a December departure .. then delayed would be jan..

1971 (Jan to March) – walker family arrive back in Aust - See page 1099 - NAA
 
E

Ecactly! That’s westbound heading to south Hampton not eastbound.
So the ship departed Southampton in early Jan 1971 to Caribbean, Panama to LA, San Francisco then to Sydney. March 10th. I recall RB saying it was a round trip and the last cruise of the Chusan so I guess it departed Sydney back to Southampton.
I think the confusion stems from DdH insisting the ship sailed from Southampton in 1970. I still can't swallow RB first seeing her at the swimming pool in the dead of winter though unless she was a member of the Bondi Icebergs.
 
Last edited:
The only sticking point I have with MB and RB travelling together to Heathrow is that, as far as we know, RB did not have a passport in the name of FNR, at that time his passport was in the name of RW. At checkin, passport control, border control UK, filling out landing cards on board the aircraft..all points where MB might have seen a name other than FNR...how did he square this when MB had already got her official name change to FNMR?

Good questions… has given me much food for thought.

We don’t actually know what name RB used on Marion. There’s no evidence she thought he was FNR.

We do know he used multiple name with JO, and she was ok with it.

We also don’t know the extent of RB’s lies and coercive control. For example, the possibility he told her he was a secret agent so having aliases would be justified, or that they were both in trouble and feared for their life so they both had to use different names.

We also don’t know if he used Richard Westbury for all of his travel, or just the Aus/Jap parts.

We also have no evidence that Marion changed her name to FNMR because it was his name and she thought she was married to him.
 
Passenger listing (naa.gov.au)
[QUOTE="
I think the confusion stems from DdH insisting the ship sailed from Southampton in 1970. I still can't swallow RB first seeing her at the swimming pool in the dead of winter though unless she was a member of the Bondi Icebergs.[/QUOTE]

Although I don't think DDH is totally above board, I do think it was a honest mistake about departing the UK in 1970 ( rather than 71) it was a massive trip over a year and she left Australia in 1970 so I think that year is stuck in her head and with nerves and all, just IMO
 
Leaving on one passport and entering on another... don't customs check?

Some here said they've done it with no problems at all. Other's said they have done it and it did cause problems.
The level of 'inspection' and 'questioning' really depends on the country and the particular customs officer.

It's not a crime to hold multiple passports if you have dual citizenship. It's not illegal to depart on one passport and enter on the other.

In fact, people with dual citizenship do it all the time, using the passport associated with the country they're about to enter or depart, as this actually makes it easier.

For example, imagine you have dual citizenship, and depart UK on your UK passport. It's better for you to enter Aus on your Aus passport so you don't have to deal with all the questions and visa stuff.

Using a plane ticket with a different name than your ID... is it a problem?

Apparently, it's not necessarily illegal and there are few regulations. Again, the level of 'inspection' and 'questioning' really depends on the country and airport staff.

It mostly depends on the type of ticket you purchased, some are more flexible. And some airlines are flexible if you explain that you changed name due to marriage or divorce, etc.

Info on both these topics is freely available on google search.

Conclusion
RB could have done both these things with little consequence, particularly in 1997 (which was pre 9/11), particularly as he had confidence and experience doing exactly these sorts of things.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just to clarify a common misconception, we don’t know if RB presented himself to Marion as FNR.

In RB’s version of events (to be taken with a grain of salt), they first met in Switzerland when he was WW.

He claims they met again in 1996 or 97 after she posted a lonely hearts ad that he responded to. At inquest, he first said he responded as WW, then he said he can’t remember. I don’t think he was asked what name Marion specifically called him, maybe this will happen in April?

RB also claims he never used the FNR name or licence other than for the 1994 Le Courrier rencontre (obviously, I don't believe it).

We have no idea if Marion ever saw the 1994 rencontre, and we have no evidence RB ever called himself FNR during his affair with Marion in 1996/97.

Also note that RB used the Richard Westbury alias to travel in and out of Aus to Japan during Marion’s disappearance.

It is possible RB flew the JAL leg of the trip as Richard Westbury, then used FNR, Fredy David or some other name for the European leg of the trip when he was allegedly with Marion.

The reason I bring up Fredy David is that he and DdH excessively lied to obscure that alias, so I wonder if he was still using it overseas? :eek:

Which leads us to ask, what name did RB actually use on Marion? There might be other reasons why Marion changed her name to FNMR, other than ‘it was RB’s name' and 'she married him’.

As we’ve discussed, despite what it says on Marion’s passenger cards, there’s no evidence that she ran away permanently and was currently a married housewife living in Luxembourg. In fact, we know much of that sentence is not true.

To me, it just looks as though someone tried very hard to make it look that way. Just IMO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Passenger listing (naa.gov.au)
[QUOTE="
I think the confusion stems from DdH insisting the ship sailed from Southampton in 1970. I still can't swallow RB first seeing her at the swimming pool in the dead of winter though unless she was a member of the Bondi Icebergs.

Although I don't think DDH is totally above board, I do think it was a honest mistake about departing the UK in 1970 ( rather than 71) it was a massive trip over a year and she left Australia in 1970 so I think that year is stuck in her head and with nerves and all, just IMO[/QUOTE]
I agree, and the ship was originally meant to depart in December 1970 and then was delayed due to bad weather in the Bay of Biscay.
I'd really love to know the REAL reason Mr. AKA was on that ship. IMO there are only two reasons, given that he isn't the 'touristy/cruisy' type.
1. He already had a passenger victim lined up for a scam.
2. He already knew DW and saw her as potential compliant wife material. I don't believe he is capable of 'love' in the normal sense. IMO
 
Just to clarify a common misconception, we don’t know if RB presented himself to Marion as FNR.

In RB’s version of events (to be taken with a grain of salt), they first met in Switzerland when he was WW.

He claims they met again in 1996 or 97 after she posted a lonely hearts ad that he responded to. At inquest, he first said he responded as WW, then he said he can’t remember. I don’t think he was asked what name Marion specifically called him, maybe this will happen in April?

RB also claims he never used the FNR name or licence other than for the 1994 Le Courrier rencontre (obviously, I don't believe it).

We have no idea if Marion ever saw the 1994 rencontre, and we have no evidence RB ever called himself FNR during his affair with Marion in 1996/97.

Also note that RB used the Richard Westbury alias to travel in and out of Aus to Japan during Marion’s disappearance.

It is possible RB flew the JAL leg of the trip as Richard Westbury, then used FNR, Fredy David or some other name for the European leg of the trip when he was allegedly with Marion.

The reason I bring up Fredy David is that he and DdH excessively lied to obscure that alias, so I wonder if he was still using it overseas? :eek:

Which leads us to ask, what name did RB actually use on Marion? There might be other reasons why Marion changed her name to FNMR, other than ‘it was RB’s name and she married him’.

As we’ve discussed, despite what it says on Marion’s passenger cards, there’s no evidence that she ran away permanently and was currently a married housewife living in Luxembourg. In fact, we know much of that sentence is not true.

To me, it just looks as though someone tried very hard to make it look that way. Just IMO.
IMO they lied about his travel on the Freddy passport because the maximum penalty, if proven, is 10 years jail.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
160
Guests online
695
Total visitors
855

Forum statistics

Threads
625,584
Messages
18,506,593
Members
240,818
Latest member
wilson.emily3646
Back
Top