Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[gymtonic]

Re the commonwealth automatic transfer document:
Maybe it’s not transfer from any MB accounts but rather transfer to/from an RB account (and the transfer doc is just included among other bank docs the brief of evidence)? For example, if RB took the money Marion emptied on the 15th, deposited it into a commonwealth account (for their married life) and then unbeknownst to Marion, auto transfers that money to his FdH account (hence the transfer document). This would somewhat hide the source of the money & also buy some time for MB to notice her money is inaccessible to her.

Along the same lines as…?

OK a bit of a wild theory here so bear with me... is it possible that the Commonwealth Bank document that SL spotted in the bundle of evidence reporting with an electronic bank transfer on 14 October 1997 (as detailed in the podcast) is not actually connected with the 15 October 1997 $80,000 closure of Colonial State Bank at Ashmore, but is in fact a transfer from RB's Commonwealth Bank account and is the money from the earlier $95,000 withdrawn in $5,000 instalments and (supposition) deposited in his Commonwealth Bank account?
My reasoning is that we know MB's bank was the Colonial State Bank and that the merger with Commonwealth Bank was not until 2000. I can't see any evidence yet of MB having a Commonwealth Bank account in 1997, but RB did!

Go for it...tear holes in this!!

If so, we’re on the same page!

 

[Zanzibar]

@Liselle , sorry I missed replying to your post #1188 on the last thread, got a bit caught up in a renovation.

You asked......
@Zanzibar From the Canberra Times. May 28, 1969:
"SYDNEY, Monday. —The Russian passenger liner Shota Rustaveli will make two cruises out of Sydney, to New Zealand in December, and to the South Pacific in January (sic 1970)…". So if this was only a South Pacific cruise (returning toSydney), when did the Shota Rustaveli arrive in Southampton with the Walker's on board?

The Shota Rustaveli travelled:
24 Nov 1969 - Departed Southhampton bound for Sydney
26 Dec 1969 - Arrived Sydney
26 Dec 1969 - Departed Sydney for NZ cruise
? Jan 1970 - Departed Sydney for South Pacific Island cruise
19 Jan 1970 - Departed Sydney bound for Southampton with Walkers on board.
Mar 1970 - Arrived Southhampton
Mar 1970 - Departed Southampton

There is plenty of time between for the two short cruises which would be between 5-10 days each. As for when it arrived in Southampton, it was a 6 week voyage so that would make it March sometime but I haven't been able to find a date. Interestingly the ship would sail from Sydney to Southampton via NZ, Tahiti and the Panama Canal.

 

[Estelle]

Well, this kind of comes back to the whole idea of RB re-visiting old haunts, and either taking or sending MB to known places where he knew he could contact her. Don't forget the MO of JO (such a gift as regards to his MO, although admittedly not for her) of delivery to a place, and subsequent abandonment. He has well-travelled rat-runs and returns to well-known places, and established connections in all of these places; whether it be for coin-related interests or other 'interests'. He's a creature of habit: re-uses known names, and returns to familiar territories.

It seems from MB's postcards, she stayed in B&B's, but ultimately appears to have had a base from which to do her tours. There's many possibilities, and I don't have the answer, but look first at where he lived before, and who he might've known in the area, from when he lived there in the 1980's. Outside of annoyingly public B&B's at the time, there's lovely private families on oast farms, who he may have known. I can think of at least two connections we've discussed who may fit the bill, there's perhaps a third in convenient Ickelsham, that may not be Manor Farm. He won't be concerned about returning to visit, they know him, and what he's about.

MB for sure was in the area; she posted cards, hard to believe they were contrived in any way, some apparently from after she returned to Australia. At least one appeared to be blank, only addressed. That may speak to:
1.MB oblivious and still in the UK post 2 Aug 1997
2.a sudden departure (of whatever kind) and an accomplice posting
3.a sudden departure (of whatever kind) and someone unconnected finding them and posting

None of the above speaks to a good end, but if we're looking for connections she may have met in the area, the Dutch dentist and Maz are still good places to go.

IMO Maz and the Dutch dentist could have been with MB in the last days before MB's passport returned to Australia. MB only claimed she had met them in her last postcard and they were lovely. However, one theory I have is that they introduced themselves to MB as RB's friends whom he had sent to keep MB company as he was still busy or in hospital, etc. Possibly MB had booked accommodation for the first three weeks in TW and had given RB a copy of her itinerary with addresses and phone numbers of the places she was going to stay. So possibly RB suggested that the three of them share an apartment for the next week and had even booked it for them. Why I suggest an apartment is because none of the doors would have been able to lock on their bedrooms which would have given them access to MB's belongings. MB probably kept her passport in her handbag so they needed to steal that so they could change the photo on it and give it to the impersonator to fly back to Australia.

I am open to believing that the impersonator could have been DdH who had flown over for a few days as RB needed a woman he could trust. Her children stayed with her sister and DdH told them she was going interstate. After DdH left, the Dutch dentist could have invited MB to visit Amsterdam with him as MB seemed excited to be going there on her PC. However, IMO the Dutch dentist was probably part of RB's OC syndicate so his role was to surveil MB in case she noticed her passport was missing and intended to go to the Australian Embassy in London for a replacement thinking she might need it in Amsterdam. IMO the Dutch dentist was also a killer for hire and his role was to end her life and get rid of any evidence of MB or her belongings. This could have occurred in England or on her way or even in Amsterdam if she didn't need her passport on the ferry. Is it correct that in those days once you had entered the EU in one of the countries, you didn't need to show your passport again when you entered another EU country?

 

[mishy66]

oh wow I did not know this. Thank you for reposting. I always thought the bank accomplice was a far fetched theory but now, geez, nothing is off the table.

me too!!

 

[mishy66]

I can’t imagine him paying for anything… hence why most of his life has been funded by ‘others’

my thoughts exactly @Eyespywithmylittleeye

Funded by those close to him also?? maybe??

 

[Estelle]

The Le Courrier ad was placed in December '94. RB says no-one answered the ad ..... interestingly he goes overseas in late February '95, not sure for how long, and he apparently took a number of trips to Europe in '95.

Although RB claims he had no replies to his ad, he may have received many and he slowly went through them but decided to leave MB to 1997. Perhaps MB phoned him or sent him a letter and told him her contact details in 1994 but he didn't follow up as she lived further away than the others . His interest may have been piqued when he read that she won the Teaching Excellence award. He then made that an opportunity to phone to congratulate her and they then met.

 

[BonnieB]

Although RB claims he had no replies to his ad, he may have received many and he slowly went through them but decided to leave MB to 1997. Perhaps MB phoned him or sent him a letter and told him her contact details in 1994 but he didn't follow up as she lived further away than the others . His interest may have been piqued when he read that she won the Teaching Excellence award. He then made that an opportunity to phone to congratulate her and they then met.

Certainly explains the flurry of overseas travel in 1995/6

 

[KiwiNZ]

I need to read up about JF, sounds fascinating. Anything's possible about the ad. He had four trips to Europe in 1995, so something was going on IMO. There could also have been ads placed in European papers along with the Australian ones, might have been juggling a few responses? Speculation of course.

Podcast - Forensic Tales - Jennifer Fairgate on podbean - is quite good

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Podcast - Forensic Tales - Jennifer Fairgate on podbean - is quite good

Wowee, thanks KiwiNZ, the Jennifer Fairgate episode has been downloaded .... podcasts are fab. Indebted and looking forward to listening to it.

 

[Meligator]

I need to read up about JF, sounds fascinating. Anything's possible about the ad. He had four trips to Europe in 1995, so something was going on IMO. There could also have been ads placed in European papers along with the Australian ones, might have been juggling a few responses? Speculation of course.

Four trips in 1995 is definitely something. But also weird is that Casseldon said the earlier JAL trips (assuming some were in 1995), were purchased as round trip. Trip corresponding to Marion RB purchased only 1 way ticket. So something was definitely different with Marion (maybe he just improved his methods), but not sure what.

 

[Estelle]

Can someone confirm or deny whether MB was unable to access to her money in her Barclays account as it was in her MB name please?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Four trips in 1995 is definitely something. But also weird is that Casseldon said the earlier JAL trips (assuming some were in 1995), were purchased as round trip. Trip corresponding to Marion RB purchased only 1 way ticket. So something was definitely different with Marion (maybe he just improved his methods), but not sure what.

Very interesting. I missed that. So Richard Westbury only purchased a one way ticket in June?!
And he had to buy a ticket in the UK for his return.
Just guessing it has to do with his ID switching - that he can't be RW in the UK.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Can someone confirm or deny whether MB was unable to access to her money in her Barclays account as it was in her MB name please?

I don't think anyone knows for sure. We've never been told of any transactions.
All I know is Sally thinks she remembers Marion saying she was sending over $20k for her to use on her trip.
But when they returned the funds due to inactivity, there was $14k left.
So we assume she had used some of the money as you wouldn't incur $6k in fees and exchange rate, right?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Were they the only ports that the Chusan docked at on its way to Australia on their voyage? There would have been many

my thoughts exactly @Eyespywithmylittleeye

Funded by those close to him also?? maybe??

Absolutely! Mrs Wonka inheritance most likely blown by him and his travelling

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Very interesting. I missed that. So Richard Westbury only purchased a one way ticket in June?!
And he had to buy a ticket in the UK for his return.
Just guessing it has to do with his ID switching - that he can't be RW in the UK.

Passport change sounds most obvious reason but whenever I think most obvious another twist comes to light

 

[Estelle]

Do we know that Westbury flew home from Heathrow? I don't think he did. I think he would have flown home from Amsterdam.

It seems unlikely he spent much time with MB in England according to her postcards and types of activities.

Maybe he bought one way tickets eg Brisbane to Tokyo in Westbury, Tokyo to Heathrow in Remakel, Amsterdam to Asia in Remakel, Asia to Brisbane in Westbury.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Although RB claims he had no replies to his ad, he may have received many and he slowly went through them but decided to leave MB to 1997. Perhaps MB phoned him or sent him a letter and told him her contact details in 1994 but he didn't follow up as she lived further away than the others . His interest may have been piqued when he read that she won the Teaching Excellence award. He then made that an opportunity to phone to congratulate her and they then met.

Darn tootin' he would have received replies, hey .... his phone would have been ringing off the hook, his PO Box would have been bursting at the seams! They'd be lining round the block to date the man described in this ad. The paper was monthly, so out there for a month on the news-stands too, plus people picking up old copies. No-one answered his ad says Mr B; h'mm, what a nonsense. I don't believe that for a second, it's too illogical. MOO of course.

 

[Roseberry]

Passport change sounds most obvious reason but whenever I think most obvious another twist comes to light

I agree it does sounds most obvious, but maybe also consider the overarching reason for the travel, which was associated with MB, but not the main reason for his journey. Maybe he was also waiting for the associated ducks to line up before he confirmed onward travel.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Can someone confirm or deny whether MB was unable to access to her money in her Barclays account as it was in her MB name please?

 

[Estelle]

Thanks LPF for that confirmation.

I remember now that Peralta said that only $14,899.70 was left in the Barclays account so it had been assumed that MB was able to access this account to withdraw money while she was in the TW area as $20,000 was transferred originally and bank fees would not have amounted to the rest of the money. I wonder what name her credit card was in? Probably Marion Barter.