Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

[KiwiNZ]

I am not so sure I think AH even gave a thought to any efforts of proof of life or purposely confusing authorities, I think he thinks everyone's an idiot but him. He used his DH name in scams, his cousin's wife was a victim of his love scam, JO was in the same coin circle as him, he didn't really care about connections, he thought he could talk himself out of everything, hardly covered his tracks.

I think why this case and Marions movements has no rhyme or reason is because his eye is firmly on the money, he just pivots at any road block, it feels like he has a bit of a plan but will just changes it up as he goes if he has to and changes to his plan could be outlandish.

I could be way off of course lol

I like reading everyone's theories, I like people challenging my thinking and poking holes in my theory, I don't take any of it personally.

 

[mishy66]

I am not so sure I think AH even gave a thought to any efforts of proof of life or purposely confusing authorities, I think he thinks everyone's an idiot but him. He used his DH name in scams, his cousin's wife was a victim of his love scam, JO was in the same coin circle as him, he didn't really care about connections, he thought he could talk himself out of everything, hardly covered his tracks.

I think why this case and Marions movements has no rhyme or reason is because his eye is firmly on the money, he just pivots at any road block, it feels like he has a bit of a plan but will just changes it up as he goes if he has to and changes to his plan could be outlandish.

I could be way off of course lol

I like reading everyone's theories, I like people challenging my thinking and poking holes in my theory, I don't take any of it personally.

Love this post.
So true

 

[VisitorDog]

Am I correct in thinking he appears to be in Europe for quite a number of weeks before returning very shortly before Marion apparently returned? If we’re doubting Marion‘s travel records, his are at doubt too for the same reasons. I do wonder what he would’ve been doing there all that time. He doesn’t seem to spend much time with the women he entices overseas, does he?

Secondly, and I’m going to be careful how I word this, but her coming back here at his behest (and in the past I’ve always thought she may have done it more by herself similar to JO) could possibly be so he can end things in Australia while Marion’s MB records show she’s in the UK.

All that said, I still tend to think that she did come back and surprise him, similar to JO, and unfortunately discovered Diane / his true nature and it didn’t end well at that point. This makes the most sense to me with the car etc.. I assume it was earlier on in the window of her return, given the lack of transactions.

For some of the stranger points, like the cancellation of her car recovery service, I believe he would’ve had her paperwork, and wouldn’t put these type of obfuscations past him. Also, presumably, it was money coming out of her account. Similarly I can see why he might have had ‘another woman’ use her Medicare card at the optometrist. He might have changed his mind and decided proof of life in Australia was a good misdirection. He was very interested in medical details as we know, and probably was aware of her eye issues. Per @KiwiNZ I think he was erratic at times and probably felt untouchable. He pretty much was as far as the authorities went. And actually, look at how this misdirection is making it hard to confirm what actually happened.

Edited for typos.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I am not so sure I think AH even gave a thought to any efforts of proof of life or purposely confusing authorities, I think he thinks everyone's an idiot but him. He used his DH name in scams, his cousin's wife was a victim of his love scam, JO was in the same coin circle as him, he didn't really care about connections, he thought he could talk himself out of everything, hardly covered his tracks.

I think why this case and Marions movements has no rhyme or reason is because his eye is firmly on the money, he just pivots at any road block, it feels like he has a bit of a plan but will just changes it up as he goes if he has to and changes to his plan could be outlandish.

I could be way off of course lol

I like reading everyone's theories, I like people challenging my thinking and poking holes in my theory, I don't take any of it personally.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, @KiwiNZ. Especially with the "pivoting" at any road block. I don't see AKA as The Grand Schemer, rather The Grifting Opportunist. His game is always besting the next guy-- or woman-- and always in pursuit of the payoff. This all corresponds with L. Richards' assessment of his pathology.

For this reason, I believe he brings Marion back to Australia. Not to do her in, but he's missing a piece he needs to get the money. (Sorry @mishy66! I don't know what exactly.) Did her name change botch things and need to be addressed locally? Had Marion left some necessary document(s) in Australia, in storage? I believe Australia was to be a pit stop for them both, then back to Europe or on to Bali -- where AKA would dump Marion. But Marion balked and it got ugly. That's when AKA had to "pivot" and devise his new plan to get the money.

Another reason I believe Marion didn't surprise AKA in Australia, is her call to Sally. When she says she won't be heard from for a while, it tells me that Marion thinks she's going back for a short stay and then onto somewhere else exotic. Bali? Luxembourg? The Orient Express? IF Marion were heading back to Australia to confront AKA or surprise him, I somehow don't think she would have said those words to Sally. Unless it were a premonition of dark things coming.

In fact the opposite was true! If she were going home to Australia to confront AKA and it went badly, Sally might be hearing from her very shortly. Pride or not.

As for the loose ends -- postcards, car service -- I agree with @VisitorDog and believe those were all "pivots" after the fact. To obfuscate.

 

[VisitorDog]

I think the pivots, the constant seeding of random acts and details and typos (and possibly the alleged bigger stuff relating to buildings no longer there) is part of his lifestyle, his daily ‘job.’ It’s what he does and who he is. Ultimately one of them has led to his discovery though.

 

[VisitorDog]

One thing that I think was emphasized in the recent Laura Richard’s podcast though, and is endlessly frustrating given his age, and the slow movement of the situation, is the lost opportunity for him to be skillfully interrogated. Time really is running out to get the answers for Sally and her family, and this seems to be one of the few things that could really be done.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

One thing that I think was emphasized in the recent Laura Richard’s podcast though, and is endlessly frustrating given his age, and the slow movement of the situation, is the lost opportunity for him to be skillfully interrogated. Time really is running out to get the answers for Sally and her family, and this seems to be one of the few things that could really be done.

Absolutely bang on point with this!

It's an outrage that highly trained LE detectives / international intelligence services can't or won't interview him and his wife and family before things go any longer.

There could be scores of women missing. This could be the very tip of a horrible demonic iceberg.

Anyone would think they don't want to! OR maybe they realise his personality is so pathalogically corrupted that they prefer to go on forensics and not any words from his mouth because all that does is cause further disruption / distortion / misdirection.

Maybe they *are* speaking to members of family? Maybe they've got some really solid intelligence from a variety of people and are building a picture whether he nor Diane knows a damn thing about it and they're deliberately not speaking to him so he can't thwart or hide or destroy anything? Giving them some credit which may or may not be due.

JMO MOO

 

[Kie22]

We are all on the same team here, and I agree there are compelling arguments that Marion did not return but I have always believed it was Marion who flew back to Australia.

My initial reason for believing that Marion did return was due to the total misinformation on her passenger cards. I first thought that AKA was trying to delink Marions old passport/identity and new passport so that it looked like she (Marion Barter) disappeared somewhere in UK/Europe. So the focus was on looking for MB around Tunbridge Wells but she could not be traced because she was travelling under the FNMR name.

I now think that he was trying everything he could think of to confuse and set up false leads. This includes the misleading info on her passenger cards, the Hotel Nikko Narita notepaper, the multiple post cards that NEVER gave any concrete information about where she was staying (so she couldn’t be traced), the eye appointment in Grafton and the withdrawals from Burleigh Heads. He is just trying everything to confuse and distance himself from Marion. MOO – I doubt that Marion ever stayed with him in Japan because he could not afford to be linked to her & certainly not travel on the same flight as her.

My current thinking – very early in the scam – maybe when Marion changed her name to FNMR or shortly after, AKA realised that he had made a tactical error by using an identity that could be linked back to him. However after Marion disappeared, the new name almost disappeared with her. It was only Sally’s perseverance that led to the NSW police connecting the FNMR name change to Marion years later. And the QLD licence was found years later again.

What would have happened if Marion, now FNMR, had gone to the police with a tale of being scammed – as did GGB, JO, AF, GDD & ‘Charlotte’? A quick search of her new surname would have brought up a current driving licence for FNR in Mt Warren Park Qld. But, this identity was not supported by a tax file number, medicare number or on the electoral roll – so basically a licence for a person who did not exist. And who knows the legality of whatever documents were used to support the licence. This is concrete stuff that can be investigated more easily than a romance scam.

Sadly, I think that even before Marion left Australia, preparations were being made for her to disappear and make it look like she had stayed in Europe or headed off to Luxembourg to start a new life as a married woman. JMO

Yes, the name change really stands out as an anomaly in this case, especially such a unique name.

He might well have used the FNR name on previous scams that he was afraid would be unearthed. I don't believe he had no responses to his ad in 1994.

I think we're only seeing the tip of a very murky, deep iceberg.

MOO

 

[VisitorDog]

I agree that it’s the tip of an iceberg, only uncovered due to Sally’s persistence. Given the length of the career, the number of years active and how much we know from women willing and able to come forward, plus Sally’s research, that, reasonably extrapolated is mind-blowing.

So many windows have closed due to time and incompetence, it would be almost unforgivable if the opportunity to expertly question the alleged perpetrator and possible witnesses at the time is missed. Laura Richard’s point that they didn’t continue after his expletive on camera was such a good observation. I read a comment by Sally on FB that it was her (Sally) that watched the video to the very end to see that happen. It seems she told the investigators as they hadn’t watched it themselves.

I also wonder how many women have come forward whose complaints haven’t been connected with him / the current observation. I believe we only know about the ones we do as they contacted the podcast / Sally?

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What breaks my heart is that for every woman who comes forward, it'll still only be the tiniest percentage of women who are a) unashamed to speak up; b) willing and able to speak up; c) are aware; d) have English as a first language or have been able to comprehend the reportage; e) are alive; etc...

How many more? How many around the world? How many women already passed away? How many women he scammed through interpersonal connection not related to any adverts? How many women who were so vulnerable they'd be long gone off this mortal coil? How many women who were already very elderly when he targeted them? Or struggling with learning difficulties or mental health problems? Or trapped in addiction or alcoholism? Or married to other men and cannot speak out about an affair? How many people he's scammed by postal frauds and online scams who don't have a clue who or what happened? Think about it.

Jeez he's the sort who'd take your gold teeth out and steal your bus pass even if you were homeless, hungry, and streetwalking.

JMO MOO

 

[lrb66]

Another thought all IMO
IF Marion‘s passport come back (but she doesn’t) then she either stays?? in the UK somewhere without a passport??
Goes elsewhere without one???
Or a false one???
Is secreted away by AKA associates to another country???
Back to Occam’s razor for me
Marion returns to Australia with her passport

 

[Mrs_Vee]

100% agree with you


The one other "proof of life" thing was her credit card being used on 1st September. Cant possibly see that was her either

I must of missed this piece of information @mishy66. Please elaborate

 

[mishy66]

I must of missed this piece of information @mishy66. Please elaborate

It was discussed on the FB page

 

[mishy66]

Another thought all IMO
IF Marion‘s passport come back (but she doesn’t) then she either stays?? in the UK somewhere without a passport??

Thats my belief yep

 

[VisitorDog]

Am I right or wrong in thinking that it’s just the passenger card that tell us she came back into the country? Or are there actual other records that have been referenced from that far back? For instance, if Mrs. Smith flew into the country in 97, but handed in a passenger card with Mrs. Remakel on it, would that give the same result? Or is there actually other travel record details?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I love all of these theories and honestly with this case any scenario is possible.

But I still believe he needed Marion back here.. why is the million dollar question.

I think she willingly called Sally because she knew she would be here and off grid for a bit. As to what reason he gave that all depends on what way the wind was blowing I don’t think he’s smart enough to really mastermind anything. He makes it up as he goes. And even when caught out on a lie he will continue to make it up as he goes.. and deny or create another story. We have seen it so many times in the inquest.

He believes he’s smart he believes he’s a superior being and the rest of the world are fools. He has slipped through cracks for years. Many questions raised by officials not only here but in Belgium as well and still he slips on through the cracks.

Each time he doesn’t get caught his narcissistic ego becomes greater he is invincible and the world and people are merely objects he uses for his own gain.

He needed Marion back. IMO

He didn’t need her for long though. So IMO it’s a document or something that was still in Australia. Something in order to gain access to her money.

I think she realised she was being played but sadly by that time it was too late.

Australia is a big place the national parks, bush. I believe she died here.

And the location is still undiscovered.

We have a lot of missing people never to be seen again. No trace. No bodies, no bones no anything.

I don’t believe this was his plan. His plan was nothing more than $$ and then get her out of here isolated in a foreign country as per the other women. And then leave.

Something happened and he adapted to the situation.

Whether it was a confrontation about money. A confrontation about his wife and family or just a gut feeling that something was way off

Sometime after arriving here Marion challenged him.
JMO

 

[LetsSolvIt]

One thing that I think was emphasized in the recent Laura Richard’s podcast though, and is endlessly frustrating given his age, and the slow movement of the situation, is the lost opportunity for him to be skillfully interrogated. Time really is running out to get the answers for Sally and her family, and this seems to be one of the few things that could really be done.

Absolutely bang on point with this!

It's an outrage that highly trained LE detectives / international intelligence services can't or won't interview him and his wife and family before things go any longer.

There could be scores of women missing. This could be the very tip of a horrible demonic iceberg. …<snipped for space>
JMO MOO

To say that I have found this case shocking is an understatement. In general I have so much respect and gratitude for LE and first responders — they put their lives on the line everyday for us, but is this case typical of the way things go in AU? I’m in America and somehow I feel like our Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) would have been all over this years ago. Thank goodness for Sally’s persistance, all the amateur sleuths, and “The Lady Vanishes” podcast because LE has been asleep. OMO. I don’t mean to be critical of Australia — we in U.S. can be pretty tightly wound and that can also back fire on us. We aren’t perfect either.

Is the coroner’s inquest like our American grand jury? Does AU have an equivalent to the U.S. FBI? It seems like pretty slow going — shouldn’t somebody like FBI agent-types be doing serious investigation on the truth of “evidence” given, following up on AKA’s apparent lies, to impeach him? And why didn’t they get on it earlier? It’s like a comedy of errors only there is *nothing* funny about this. It’s terribly sad, terribly sad.

OMHO. Maybe Marion’s case is an enigma. I don’t pretend to understand how the AU justice system works — I am totally nascent — perhaps there is a lot going on that I’m not aware of, but the seeming lack of urgency especially the last few years is stunning. I apologize if I’m missing something — hope I’m not offending anyone. At this rate, AKA is going to croak before he gets punished. OMO.

 

[charliethecat]

It was discussed on the FB page

Could you gives us a clue as to which FB page ie 'The lady vanishes' or Marion Barter? I had not picked up on the credit card use until I saw the timeline here. Cheers

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

To say that I have found this case shocking is an understatement. In general I have so much respect and gratitude for LE and first responders — they put their lives on the line everyday for us, but is this case typical of the way things go in AU? I’m in America and somehow I feel like our Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) would have been all over this years ago. Thank goodness for all the amateur sleuths and “The Lady Vanishes” podcast. OMO. I don’t mean to be critical of Australia — we in US can be pretty tightly wound and that can also back fire on us. We aren’t perfect either.

Is the coroner’s inquest like our American grand jury? Does AU have an equivalent to the U.S. FBI? It seems like pretty slow going — shouldn’t somebody like FBI agent-types be doing serious investigation on the truth of “evidence” given, following up on AKA’s apparent lies, to impeach him? And why didn’t they get on it earlier? It’s like a comedy of errors only there is *nothing* funny about this. It’s terribly sad, terribly sad.

OMHO. Maybe Marion’s case is an enigma. I don’t pretend to understand how the AU justice system works — I am totally nascent — perhaps there is a lot going on that I’m not aware of, but the seeming lack of urgency especially the last few years is stunning. I apologize if I’m missing something — hope I’m not offending anyone. At this rate, AKA is going to croak before he gets punished. OMO.

I don’t think you’re offending anyone.

As an Australian it’s appalling how this has been handled.

 

[*juniper*]

Am I right or wrong in thinking that it’s just the passenger card that tell us she came back into the country? Or are there actual other records that have been referenced from that far back? For instance, if Mrs. Smith flew into the country in 97, but handed in a passenger card with Mrs. Remakel on it, would that give the same result? Or is there actually other travel record details?

IIRC, your passport is the key document used when you enter Australia. The border officer will do a visual check - comparing your face against the photo in your passport. They might ask you where you have travelled from or some other general questions. Your travel details are entered into or checked against the Immigration movement records system.

Then I think, but I can't be sure, they used to write a code somewhere, maybe on your passenger card, which indicated to Customs or Quarantine if they considered you to be a risk, and this could prompt a thorough search of your baggage.

The former Immigration Dept - now part of Home Affairs - keeps a copy of your travel into and out of Australia, but they don't keep a record of where you travelled internationally. Here is a link to the Home Affairs website that gives background information on movement records. https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-and...he-border/passenger-movement/movement-records