Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[trixie_au]

I can’t show on a map, but I think they were camped to the right of the suspension bridge, from memory to the right of the toilet as well in a clearing thats big enough for a couple of camps. I’ve found there to be contradictory reports of where they were camped and the mapping is even worse, but we had someone point out the spot to us who is a reliable source. I question my memory of where it is more than what we were told lol

Ahh yep, I know where you mean, thanks.
Yeah the reporters have no idea, I remember seeing one article map they’d put their camp up on the Mitta Mitta, and another put them camping out at Wangaratta, lol.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Come to think of it I don't recall anyone mentioning what they may have been wearing.

Who knows, maybe Russell was wearing camoflage pants and shirt. Maybe they liked looking at wildlife. Were they into photographing wildlife.

Nobody has said much about what they did when they went away, apart from flying a drone, and the nightly ham radio check in.
I imagine for Carol to contact family, they'd have to drive somewhere with mobile phone reception.

Was he a metal dectectorist, did he like fishing. Did they play a guitar and sing songs. We hardly know anything about what their interests were.

I imagine that Russells wife and maybe Carols family were asked to look and see what clothes etc were missing.

If this is a news helicopter pic of the police at the scene of the campsite (which I think it could be, as there are other pics of a police setup with a blue canopy), then I can see how it is possible that there was one accidental shooting - if Russell or Carol were wearing beige and someone thought they were a deer among the trees.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Yeah sorry I’m not trying to muddy the waters, just more commenting that if someone nearby with evil intentions was listening, and knew how to pinpoint a transmission, that if they identified RH & CC as vulnerable from that transmission, they could’ve decided they were easy prey and headed to their camp to do something awful. I guess that’s buying into the Rambo style killer you’ve mentioned that RA is possibly implying. TBH I really don’t believe there’s someone up there like that and I’m not really sure where RA is going with that. I know people from his town who know him and they are scratching their heads at what he said.

I grew up where RA lives. It’s no surprise to myself or others locally I talk to about it, that there’d be a madman up there, deer hunter or otherwise.
It’s not a hobby/activity restricted to sane law abiding citizens and add in the remote location in this instance and it’s a magnet to people wanting to be out of sight of the police for various reasons. I feel like it’s naive and a bit ‘it couldn’t happen in my backyard’ to think there couldn’t possibly be.

Have a listen to the podcast Andrew Rule did in 2019 about illegal deer hunters killing the man near Mansfield (not similar circumstances) its interesting. He grew up in Gippsland he’s done a couple of good podcasts on RH and CC too. It’s also interesting how many cases have random Gippsland links which he mentions as a matter of interest. I take from that, that you just don’t know who you’re walking past in the street. And if I can get to Won then they can too.

 

[SouthAussie]

I can’t show on a map, but I think they were camped to the right of the suspension bridge, from memory to the right of the toilet as well in a clearing thats big enough for a couple of camps. I’ve found there to be contradictory reports of where they were camped and the mapping is even worse, but we had someone point out the spot to us who is a reliable source. I question my memory of where it is more than what we were told lol

This is the pic supplied by VicPol of exactly where the campsite was. To the left of the suspension bridge, and across the flat from Wonnangatta Station.




Police have repeated their plea for information about a white dual cab ute seen in the area where Mr Hill and Ms Clay were camping before they disappeared.

The four-wheel-drive was the only car seen in the area on March 20, and has not been ruled out of the investigation.
Twist in case of two missing campers as cops KNOW who was near campsite amid affair | Daily Mail Online

 

[Marchalot]

I grew up where RA lives. It’s no surprise to myself or others locally I talk to about it, that there’d be a madman up there, deer hunter or otherwise.
It’s not a hobby/activity restricted to sane law abiding citizens and add in the remote location in this instance and it’s a magnet to people wanting to be out of sight of the police for various reasons. I feel like it’s naive and a bit ‘it couldn’t happen in my backyard’ to think there couldn’t possibly be.

Have a listen to the podcast Andrew Rule did in 2019 about illegal deer hunters killing the man near Mansfield (not similar circumstances) its interesting. He grew up in Gippsland he’s done a couple of good podcasts on RH and CC too. It’s also interesting how many cases have random Gippsland links which he mentions as a matter of interest. I take from that, that you just don’t know who you’re walking past in the street. And if I can get to Won then they can too.

100%... and I think your talking about the incident in near Jamieson where its suspected hunters? who've not come forward.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Yeh I’d imagine it’s the same one. Sorry, I probably have remembered the wrong town name!

 

[MissMarpleAU]

Does anyone know from looking at the camp photos, if the tyre tracks of another vehicle could be left behind??

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeh I’d imagine it’s the same one. Sorry, I probably have remembered the wrong town name!

Wow ... this is interesting already and I am only a few minutes into the podcast. Thanks for posting the reference. I think it will help us learn about this activity in that area. And maybe even how Russell and Carol perhaps might have been killed.

"They cruise those roads overnight, often after midnight, looking for easy kills. It appears that there is a direct line between illicit deer poaching - a very dangerous practise - and low level organised crime."

High country cowboys – Life and Crimes with Andrew Rule – Podcast
(only 19 mins long)

 

[Monsoon]

This is the pic supplied by VicPol of exactly where the campsite was. To the left of the suspension bridge, and across the flat from Wonnangatta Station.

View attachment 295274


Police have repeated their plea for information about a white dual cab ute seen in the area where Mr Hill and Ms Clay were camping before they disappeared.

The four-wheel-drive was the only car seen in the area on March 20, and has not been ruled out of the investigation.
Twist in case of two missing campers as cops KNOW who was near campsite amid affair | Daily Mail Online

so there is a toilet there? does this mean RH/CC could have used that toilet in the daytime, and their tent toilet (unused) was perhaps for the night? If so, they could have been at the campsite all day (not just arrived).

 

[SouthAussie]

So, for those who dont want to listen to the podcast ... Andrew Rule is basically saying that there are lots and lots of responsible hunters who hunt legally in that huge area, then pack the meat and use it responsibly. The deer are overpopulating the area, and it is an approved practise.

But there are a number of illegal hunters (wild boys) - illegal because they spotlight the deer and shoot them using infrared sights, you can't carry a spotlight and a rifle in Victoria at the same time.
Some of them use supressors (silencers) which are highly illegal in Australia.
They also drive with their lights off (and turn the spotlight on now and again to spot the deer).

A person in Mansfield is known to make supressors which are illegally sold to hunters.

They then cut off the stags heads and sell them on the black market.
They boast online about going without sleep for 3 days because they are shooting and staying awake by using amphetamines and cocaine.

They use the cash they get from selling the stag heads to buy drugs, which they then sell in their hometowns.

It is so dangerous for others because they are using high powered rifles, where the bullets travel far, and they hunt near populated areas. These rifles can send a bullet several kilometres, and could kill a person at several kilometres.

The bullets are powerful enough to go through anything but a brick wall. They could go through a car and kill the occupants, they could go through a timber dwelling and several walls and still kill somebody.

And there is next to no police presence in those areas.

High country cowboys – Life and Crimes with Andrew Rule – Podcast

 

[Sher Lock]

C & C ... thanks for the link to the podcast which was great listening.
It certainly sound like the Won area (& right through the high country) has problems with rogue hunters given what that young wrangler guy said on Liz Hayes show said regarding all the dead deer around where Russell & Carol had their camp set up.
Thinking out aloud, the scenario could be ... rogue hunters do a run through where R & C are camped, intentionally shoot them (because they are high on meth or whatever their drugs of choice are), then raid the tent for items of value which they steal, being mobile phones & drone, burn the tent to get rid of any dna, rifle through the car for money or other items of value then take the bodies & dispose of them somewhere in the hills.
I don't really get why they'd go to all the hassle to remove the bodies when they could have just left them wherever they were shot but I guess we're not thinking with the minds of someone who hasn't slept for days and is on a cocktail of drugs & alcohol and has a high powered, deadly weapon.

 

[Bats]

So, for those who dont want to listen to the podcast ... Andrew Rule is basically saying that there are lots and lots of responsible hunters who hunt legally in that huge area, then pack the meat and use it responsibly. The deer are overpopulating the area, and it is an approved practise.

But there are a number of illegal hunters (wild boys) - illegal because they spotlight the deer and shoot them using infrared sights, you can't carry a spotlight and a rifle in Victoria at the same time.
Some of them use supressors (silencers) which are highly illegal in Australia.
They also drive with their lights off (and turn the spotlight on now and again to spot the deer).

A person in Mansfield is known to make supressors which are illegally sold to hunters.

They then cut off the stags heads and sell them on the black market.
They boast online about going without sleep for 3 days because they are shooting and staying awake by using amphetamines and cocaine.

They use the cash they get from selling the stag heads to buy drugs, which they then sell in their hometowns.

It is so dangerous for others because they are using high powered rifles, where the bullets travel far, and they hunt near populated areas. These rifles can send a bullet several kilometres, and could kill a person at several kilometres.

The bullets are powerful enough to go through anything but a brick wall. They could go through a car and kill the occupants, they could go through a timber dwelling and several walls and still kill somebody.

And there is next to no police presence in those areas.

High country cowboys – Life and Crimes with Andrew Rule – Podcast

Makes you realise how easily Russell's drone may have annoyed someone who is in this state... staying awake for so long and just when they nearly have their trophy...Russell's drone scares it off... i can see how that may annoy someone....then add meth or coke to the equation...

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

Yah. I quite like his podcasts.

That seems to link with what the musterer was saying on Under Investigation too - About there being deer every few hundred meters when he was looking for RHCC.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

If there was no exit wound then I can see why they wouldn’t want their bullets left with the bodies where they might be found, therefore they’d go to some effort to remove the bodies or the bullets.
Assuming the guns are registered to them in the first place.

Or they were shot somewhere else and their bodies are still where they fell. And then the Ute and camp were moved into Won. Again though, a fair effort.
There’s plenty of hunting accidents that are reported, Though.

 

[Marchalot]

So, for those who dont want to listen to the podcast ... Andrew Rule is basically saying that there are lots and lots of responsible hunters who hunt legally in that huge area, then pack the meat and use it responsibly. The deer are overpopulating the area, and it is an approved practise.

But there are a number of illegal hunters (wild boys) - illegal because they spotlight the deer and shoot them using infrared sights, you can't carry a spotlight and a rifle in Victoria at the same time.
Some of them use supressors (silencers) which are highly illegal in Australia.
They also drive with their lights off (and turn the spotlight on now and again to spot the deer).

A person in Mansfield is known to make supressors which are illegally sold to hunters.

They then cut off the stags heads and sell them on the black market.
They boast online about going without sleep for 3 days because they are shooting and staying awake by using amphetamines and cocaine.

They use the cash they get from selling the stag heads to buy drugs, which they then sell in their hometowns.

It is so dangerous for others because they are using high powered rifles, where the bullets travel far, and they hunt near populated areas. These rifles can send a bullet several kilometres, and could kill a person at several kilometres.

The bullets are powerful enough to go through anything but a brick wall. They could go through a car and kill the occupants, they could go through a timber dwelling and several walls and still kill somebody.

And there is next to no police presence in those areas.

High country cowboys – Life and Crimes with Andrew Rule

 

[Marchalot]

Personally I hate the place.

 

[SouthAussie]

What is horrible to think of is that they are using chain saws to quickly cut off the stags heads. And the wild dogs and their litters are feeding on the carcasses that they leave behind.
Russell and Carol may never be found if those methods were employed.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

What is horrible to think of is that they are using chain saws to quickly cut off the stags heads. And the wild dogs and their litters are feeding on the carcasses that they leave behind.
Russell and Carol may never be found if those methods were employed.

 

[SouthAussie]

Personally I hate the place.

It reminds me of the grossness of people shooting the wild pigs in FNQ. It wouldn't be so bad if they were responsible, but it seems that there are those (wild boys) who are not responsible.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

What is horrible to think of is that they are using chain saws to quickly cut off the stags heads. And the wild dogs and their litters are feeding on the carcasses that they leave behind.
Russell and Carol may never be found if those methods were employed.

Agreed!

Just thinking out loud. If they’re the hunting methods used by the people who shot RhCC and giving them the benefit of the doubt that RhCC were shot accidentally I feel like it’s not much of a stretch that they would have cut them up with the little electric chainsaws mentioned by Andrew rule. But there’d be a hell of a mess that still wasn’t found in the searches. Although I have wondered before about the proximity of the river to their camp. If they were shot while they were in the river (although not very deep or fast flowing) there wouldn’t be a mess to be found on the ground. Bit gory, sorry.