Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #3

[TootsieFootsie]

That's why anyone camping there would have had to bring their own toilet facility with them.

Unless they were going behind bushes and using a shovel. I'm thinking that might have been frowned on in these campsites.

If this is indeed the true campsite, it is not very close to the toilet at Wonnangatta station? (35 mins walk).

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm still confused about the exact camp spot. In this link there is a map which says it was supplied by Vic police: High Country mystery deepens as police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers

If this is indeed the true campsite, it is not very close to the toilet at Wonnangatta station? (35 mins walk).

I think there is a public loo right at the suspension bridge to the right of where Russell and Carol's campsite was.


"Now we understand that this vehicle was parked near the long drop toilet, or the public toilet and a small suspension bridge over the Wonnangatta River river, which is, is within fairly close proximity to where we know that Russell and Carol camped," Detective Inspector Andrew Stamper said.
Police looking for ute in search for missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill

 

[SouthAussie]

If there was an unplanned spur-of-the-moment attack and murder at the campsite in Wonnangatta, and it happened just before sunset, then it would be a real problem for the attackers. They need to drive away, with bodies, in the dark, and they need to take them somewhere far enough away from the campsite, and then continue driving to get away from the that drop-off site. If the attackers were travelling from the campsite at Wonnangatta to the (latest search areas) Herne Spur Track -> Cynthia Range Track -> Dargo High Plains Road -> Olive Branch chain bay (something thrown from the car?) --- where would the logical place be to take the bodies? They can't walk too far so it has to be somewhere near a road. There are two dead-end roads marked on this map that may be a possible location.

If this was done by rogue hunters, it sounds as if they drive around with their lights off at night. (According to the MSM articles about them that we have posted, as well as the podcast.)
Which, to me, means that they have a pretty good handle on the roads and tracks around there.

 

[JLZ]

If this was done by rogue hunters, it sounds as if they drive around with their lights off at night. (According to the MSM articles about them that we have posted, as well as the podcast.)
Which, to me, means that they have a pretty good handle on the roads and tracks around there.

I had the impression the articles were talking about somewhat less remote, less dangerous areas than the spur tracks in & out of the valley. "Other road users"--IMO there would be practically none at night. Once in the valley, that's another thing--yes, they could do spotlighting there, but that's not to say they could take the bodies away after dark.

 

[Theodora]

I thought RA told Robyn Hill to notify the police after only a couple of days and he knew pretty well exactly where their campsite would be?

Other campers in the area discovered their burnt out campsite at Dry River Track six days later and Mr Hill's car was slightly scorched, but driveable.
Seniors' disappearance from campsite remains a mystery, but possibilities remain open

 

[Kemug]

"The more i think about it, the less i think any perp would be connected or have known C and R.
The reason being is that someone known to them would have needed to follow them for 2 days before committing a crime"

But someone known to them probably knew where they would camp.

 

[SouthAussie]

I thought RA told Robyn Hill to notify the police after only a couple of days and he knew pretty well exactly where their campsite would be?

Yes, my understanding is that Rob told Russell's wife that she should report Russell missing.
Do we know exactly when she did that?
Do we know exactly when the police got there to investigate?
I have never seen anything other than 'days later'.
Other campers evidently know exactly when they saw the burned campsite - next day at 2pm, and again 6 days later.


While the relationship was largely hidden from Mr Hill's devastated wife, it has been well known to police since the pair were reported missing by Mrs Hill days after her husband last made contact via radio.

The secret lovers vanished on March 20, 2020 while on a camping trip in the rugged high country, with their burnt, empty campsite found days later.
Authorities found the couple's campsite burned to the ground near Mr Hill's car days later.

Because the pair weren't due back until up to a week later, the alarm wasn't raised for days and precious time was lost.
A police source said despite the delay in the missing person squad being brought into investigate the case, the fire ravaged camp site was thoroughly investigated at the time.
Twist in case of two missing campers as cops KNOW who was near campsite amid affair | Daily Mail Online

 

[Sher Lock]

Yes, my understanding is that Rob told Russell's wife that she should report Russell missing.
Do we know exactly when she did that?
Do we know exactly when the police got there to investigate?
I have never seen anything other than 'days later'.
Other campers evidently know exactly when they saw the burned campsite - next day at 2pm, and again 6 days later.


While the relationship was largely hidden from Mr Hill's devastated wife, it has been well known to police since the pair were reported missing by Mrs Hill days after her husband last made contact via radio.

The secret lovers vanished on March 20, 2020 while on a camping trip in the rugged high country, with their burnt, empty campsite found days later.
Authorities found the couple's campsite burned to the ground near Mr Hill's car days later.

Because the pair weren't due back until up to a week later, the alarm wasn't raised for days and precious time was lost.
A police source said despite the delay in the missing person squad being brought into investigate the case, the fire ravaged camp site was thoroughly investigated at the time.
Twist in case of two missing campers as cops KNOW who was near campsite amid affair | Daily Mail Online

The timetable of events are:
Friday 20th R&C are most likely attacked
Sat 21st 2pm: burnt camp site found by other campers
Mon 23rd Rob Ashlin contacts RH's wife and advises her to call the police as it is not like Russell to not be in contact for 2 days
Thu 26th Police arrive at the site to commence investigations

Now apparently another lot of campers found the site and they contacted the police but I'm unsure when they did this.
I also remember early on in the piece that the first lot of campers that discovered the burnt out site (Sat 21st) didn't report it to police for
a few days as they assumed everything was ok as the car looked undamaged. They continued on with their camping trip and went to the police after their trip had finished.

 

[Bats]

Kemug: "But someone known to them probably knew where they would camp"

Yes true... but...we're starting to get into James Bond territory if... someone(s) who knew them, followed them for 2 days, killed them.... then for some reason moved them from the location they were in, in order to conceal the identity of themself(selves).

For me, thats hard to fathom and makes so much more sense for....someone(s) that didn't know them (very well) to feel the need to remove the bodies from the area.

 

[4Erica]

NoCookies | The Australian

Wife of missing camper Robyn Hill fears the worst in disappearance of Russell Hill, Carol Clay
“I just want them found, one way or the other, and then he can face the music if he’s still alive.

“See, I’m a bit of a sadist. You’ve got to be, otherwise you’d be in a heap.”

Mrs Hill said she and her husband had known Ms Clay for more than 50 years and attended her first wedding.

Mrs Hill could not understand what fate the pair met.

“Unless someone’s got them,” she said. “But why would they do that?”

 

[Satchie]

From what i can tell many sleeping bags now days have plastic or nylon zippers. In fact I believe many prefer this as they are lighter and insulate better.

True, though perhaps LE know whether the bags were new. As a long time camper with a limited camping future, I wonder whether Russell would be buying new gear.

 

[Satchie]

I thought RA told Robyn Hill to notify the police after only a couple of days and he knew pretty well exactly where their campsite would be?

I really doubt he knew 'exactly'. Perhaps the general area, but that's still many square miles of empty bushland, and there's no LE stationed anywhere near.

IMO they might have put out a call to officials in the area to keep an eye out, and were probably checking for banking activity or hospital admissions when the second set of campers reported the truck license plate.

 

[Theodora]

My guess is that the police recorded RH's wife's call and might have spoken to RA around Mon 23rd or Tues 24th but took no action. There was no evidence then except "it's not like him not to radio in for 2 days". At that point, RA's evidence is that he and RH's wife just thought RH was missing, they say they didn't know CC was with him.

Given the remote location and communication difficulties (and very few local police to look for them), the police probably thought there wasn't enough evidence that RH might be in trouble to justify a major search effort. When the second set of campers reported the burnt tent and truck on about 26th (someone said it was about 6 days later) the police had grounds for concern that something had happened to RH.

I wonder how long after that the police (and RA and Mrs Hill) found out that CC was also missing? Did the first public report that RH was missing also mention CC?

The timetable of events are:
Friday 20th R&C are most likely attacked
Sat 21st 2pm: burnt camp site found by other campers
Mon 23rd Rob Ashlin contacts RH's wife and advises her to call the police as it is not like Russell to not be in contact for 2 days
Thu 26th Police arrive at the site to commence investigations

Now apparently another lot of campers found the site and they contacted the police but I'm unsure when they did this.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how long after that the police (and RA and Mrs Hill) found out that CC was also missing? Did the first public report that RH was missing also mention CC?

Yes. They both were reported by the media as missing (together) right from the get-go.

Perhaps Carol's family also went to the police with a report. Carol would have missed all timelines of communicating with her family to say she was safe and well.

Someone among them knew enough to know that Russell and Carol were together.

 

[JLZ]

Kemug: "But someone known to them probably knew where they would camp"

Yes true... but...we're starting to get into James Bond territory if... someone(s) who knew them, followed them for 2 days, killed them.... then for some reason moved them from the location they were in, in order to conceal the identity of themself(selves).

For me, thats hard to fathom and makes so much more sense for....someone(s) that didn't know them (very well) to feel the need to remove the bodies from the area.

It wouldn't need to be someone following them for two days. It could be, someone listened to the Thursday night radio call when Russell perhaps said he was at Howitt High Plains and heading to Wonnangatta Station the next day, then on Friday that person drove to the valley and waited for Russell to arrive and make his last radio call.

Moving the bodies might also be to create a delay, because chances are dead bodies or bits of them in a tent are going to be found sooner than a mysteriously unattended site when the missing pair aren't expected back for another week. The person needs to get back home so as to claim he was there all the time.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

NoCookies | The Australian

What a strange article.

Edit, I had to google the meaning of sadist because I couldn’t get my head around it in that context. I’m still not sure I have.

 

[Puzzles]

I agree with you, it is an odd comment she made.

But do please tread carefully, @curiouser and curiouser, for as family, she is considered a victim, and we want to respect our TOS where we agreed to remain friendly to victims and their families.

Edited to add: I think she just meant she needs to be tough, "otherwise you’d be in a heap."
Perhaps mustering up anger towards Russell helps her from losing herself in deep sorrow.

 

[curiouser and curiouser]

I agree with you, it is an odd comment she made.

But do please tread carefully, @curiouser and curiouser, for as family, she is considered a victim, and we want to respect our TOS where we agreed to remain friendly to victims and their families.

Yeh good point, thanks. I’ve removed it.

 

[JLZ]

NoCookies | The Australian

What a strange article.

Edit, I had to google the meaning of sadist because I couldn’t get my head around it in that context. I’m still not sure I have.

I think she's saying, that in the unlikely event that he's found alive, she's prepared to be angry about the disappearance and the Carol thing, not fall on his neck with forgiveness in the relief that he isn't dead. And holding onto her anger against him is getting her through this time. I do find it a bit odd, I would have expected any 'sadism' or thirst for revenge to be directed against a possible killer.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The face the music tells me that her husband and Carol was something she really didn't know, and it wasn't something that she knew and was somehow resigned to.

Using the word sadist didn't fit in with what she was saying. I think she meant another word but chose the wrong one as we sometimes do.

My surprise is that she knew Carol for 50 years. So it seems that that maybe there never was a period of time that Russell wasn't in contact with Carol.