Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

The scans done at

Dating scans of pregnancy done at hospitals are quite accurate and Tegan was deemed a 38 week or term baby so the conception date is extremely important.

Yes I think experienced midwives can tell the difference between a 38 week pregnancy and a 40 week one. I wonder what Tegan birth weight was. Not conclusive but would be some indication. Also if Keli was overdue as she claimed, it would have been obviously from Tegan's appearance too.

From what I have read, Keli was assessed as being around 38 weeks at Ryde Hospital days before Tegan was born on 12 September.

If at the most Tegan was 39 weeks when she was born, she was conceived around 27 December, at the outside 22 December if you allow up to 5 days for actual conception to occur as that is entirely possible. If Tegan was less than 39 weeks gestation at 12 September, then she was conceived closer to New Year Eve.

Tegan's conception date and the gestation length of Keli's pregnancy are crucial to the truth of her story about "Andrew" being the father.

Not relevant to the residence of the Wisbeach Unit, agreed but absolutely crucial to the truth of her story about "Andrew" being the father.

The police documents do not appear to have considered this properly at all. A November conception date or even early December is absolutely complete nonsense if what was reported about her assessment at Ryde Hospital in the week before Tegan was born is correct.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes I think experienced midwives can tell the difference between a 38 week pregnancy and a 40 week one. I wonder what Tegan birth weight was. Not conclusive but would be some indication. Also if Keli was overdue as she claimed, it would have been obviously from Tegan's appearance too.

From what I have read, Keli was assessed as being around 38 weeks at Ryde Hospital days before Tegan was born on 12 September.

If at the most Tegan was 39 weeks when she was born, she was conceived around 27 December, at the outside 22 December if you allow up to 5 days for actual conception to occur as that is entirely possible. If Tegan was less than 39 weeks gestation at 12 September, then she was conceived closer to New Year Eve.

Tegan's conception date and the gestation length of Keli's pregnancy are crucial to the truth of her story about "Andrew" being the father.

Not relevant to the residence of the Wisbeach Unit, agreed but absolutely crucial to the truth of her story about "Andrew" being the father.

The police documents do not appear to have considered this properly at all. A November conception date or even early December is absolutely complete nonsense if what was reported about her assessment at Ryde Hospital in the week before Tegan was born is correct.

Yes, my son was estimated to be two weeks overdue and he was born with very dry skin. It peeled off like when someone’s sunburn is healing. Also, they had tested my blood for a particular hormone on the Friday (he was born on the Saturday night) and found that the placenta was deteriorating (I think?). They were just about to call me on the day I was in labour.

As for the dates on the police documents, I wonder where how they were deduced. From Keli’s version of events or as part of the investigation.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I am glad Caro Meldrum-Hanna has cleared up the confusion regarding the occupant of Unit 10 at 24 Wisbeach St from December 1995.

What was revealed on the Exposed Program is in conflict as to what was accepted as fact and reported in the Court of Appeal judgment Lane v R [2013] NSWCCA 317 (13 December 2013).

The Court accepted that Sean Greaves was the occupant at the relevant time. He did not know Keli and did not have a partner Mel. The Court of Appeal specifically said that "there was evidence which, if accepted by the jury, could exclude Unit 10 as a location where Andrew Norris/Morris lived."

Looks like there was a finding of fact based on a error. The evidence appears to be that Sean Greaves lived there only from 23 December 1995!

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Yes, my son was estimated to be two weeks overdue and he was born with very dry skin. It peeled off like when someone’s sunburn is healing. Also, they had tested my blood for a particular hormone on the Friday (he was born on the Saturday night) and found that the placenta was deteriorating (I think?). They were just about to call me on the day I was in labour.

As for the dates on the police documents, I wonder where how they were deduced. From Keli’s version of events or as part of the investigation.

From the sounds of it, looks like the police dates are deduced from Keli's version of events.

I have had babies born at 38 weeks and 40 weeks, there is a difference! I also have a son who shares a birthdate with Tegan. I know when he was conceived!

 

[Bohemian]

I am glad Caro Meldrum-Hanna has cleared up the confusion regarding the occupant of Unit 10 at 24 Wisbeach St from December 1995.

What was revealed on the Exposed Program is in conflict as to what was accepted as fact and reported in the Court of Appeal judgment Lane v R [2013] NSWCCA 317 (13 December 2013).

The Court accepted that Sean Greaves was the occupant at the relevant time. He did not know Keli and did not have a partner Mel. The Court of Appeal specifically said that "there was evidence which, if accepted by the jury, could exclude Unit 10 as a location where Andrew Norris/Morris lived."

Looks like there was a finding of fact based on a error. The evidence appears to be that Sean Greaves lived there only from 23 December 1995!

Not so fast. There is only a record of Sean Greaves paying rent from the 23/12/95 isn’t there? Not a rental agreement or records of tenants/rents paid before that time for Unit 10? SG can’t remember when he was a tenant, he simply believes he moved in in late December 2015:

Caro Meldrum-Hanna

 

[Bohemian]

From the sounds of it, looks like the police dates are deduced from Keli's version of events.

I have had babies born at 38 weeks and 40 weeks, there is a difference! I also have a son who shares a birthdate with Tegan. I know when he was conceived!

Me too and there is! My (two week overdue) son was born two weeks after Tegan and I have no freaking idea when he was conceived. I think that happens a lot around Christmas-New Year

 

[JayJayJay]

In this article it says Keli was 4 months pregnant with Tegan at her 21st birthday in April 1996 meaning conception was most likely early January or very late December Exposed Archive photo Keli Lane

 

[Bohemian]

In this article it says Keli was 4 months pregnant with Tegan at her 21st birthday meaning conception was most likely early January or very late December Exposed Archive photo Keli Lane

Great catch, JJJ.

[God, even then, given the thickening of her waist, I think I could’ve picked she was pregnant. How didn’t anyone notice?]

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Not so fast. There is only a record of Sean Greaves paying rent from the 23/12/95 isn’t there? Not a rental agreement or records of tenants/rents paid before that time for Unit 10. SG can’t remember when he was a tenant, he simply believes he moved in in late December 2015:

Caro Meldrum-Hanna

Yes, true. It has been a few years since I have rented but I generally paid the rent a month in advance on the day we took possession and the bond from the day I signed the lease, so at least he would have taken possession around that date. Probably not before, sometime on that date or not too long after.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Me too and there is! My (two week overdue) son was born two weeks after Tegan and I have no freaking idea when he was conceived. I think that happens a lot around Christmas-New Year

My son was born at 38 weeks - he's a New Year's Baby, blush blush and an accident too - double blush!!!!

Your son was conceived about 2 weeks before New Years!!

Yep, maternity hospitals are busy around that time in September!!!!!!!

 

[JayJayJay]

I had to have 2 of my babies induced in 1996 ( eldest born at 38 weeks ) and 1997 ( second eldest born at 39.7 weeks) as I developed severe obstetric cholestasis which can be fatal for the baby. Both hospitals carefully checked the dates and gestational age of the babies by measuring certain parts and told me the ages and which way was best to deliver them based on this. So the technology was there back then. Later babies born in 2001 and 2009 and scans used again to date the pregnancies.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, true. It has been a few years since I have rented but I generally paid the rent a month in advance on the day we took possession and the bond from the day I signed the lease, so at least he would have taken possession around that date. Probably not before, sometime on that date or not too long after.

Yes but was it monthly rent? If there are no records for November 1995, how do we (or SG) know that he wasn’t living in Unit 10 before December 1995?

 

[Bohemian]

My son was born at 38 weeks - he's a New Year's Baby, blush blush and an accident too - double blush!!!!

Your son was conceived about 2 weeks before New Years!!

Yep, maternity hospitals are busy around that time in September!!!!!!!

Ah, yes, you’re spot on. 15th of December. It’s all coming back to me now

 

[Bohemian]

Yes but was it monthly rent? If there are no records for November 1995, how do we (or SG) know that he wasn’t living in Unit 10 before December 1995?

Just to add to this: if rents paid/received via bank transactions, would the relevant banks still have the paper-based/electronic records of the bank accounts of landlords, real estate agents, tenants stored somewhere?

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Yes but was it monthly rent? If there are no records for November 1995, how do we (or SG) know that he wasn’t living in Unit 10 before December 1995?

Good point. I was taking SG's statement that he moved in in late December 1995 at face value and this is certainly a case where one should not do that!

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Ah, yes, you’re spot on. 15th of December. It’s all coming back to me now

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

I

Just to add to this: if rents paid/received via bank transactions, would the relevant banks still have the paper-based/electronic records of the bank accounts of landlords, real estate agents, tenants stored somewhere?

Interesting question? I think not as it is so long ago but I would be interesting to find out for sure if these records still exist and can be located.

I think the ABC is going to the central bond authority now in NSW for information. Hopefully that turns up something.

 

[Bohemian]

I


Interesting question? I think not as it is so long ago but I would be interesting to find out for sure if these records still exist and can be located.

I think the ABC is going to the central bond authority now in NSW for information. Hopefully that turns up something.

I’m not sure how long the banks keep them for. Maybe just 7 years.

Rental Bond Board is a NSW Statutory Authority I think? If so, they may be able to find something at the State Records Office (Good luck interns!)

 

[Via Marple]

I would think there's only a very small possible window of opportunity, for Tegan to be conceived at that address, before Sean Greaves moved in. Maybe Andrew was a real estate agent! Or knew the agent. I always suspect those agents with access to so many properties, might be doing something sneaky behind people's back

Anyway I don't doubt the existence of 'Andrew'. There had to be a biological father. Question is, did she give Tegan to him?

 

[Bohemian]

I would think there's only a very small possible window of opportunity, for Tegan to be conceived at that address, before Sean Greaves moved in. Maybe Andrew was a real estate agent! Or knew the agent. I always suspect those agents with access to so many properties, might be doing something sneaky behind people's back

Anyway I don't doubt the existence of 'Andrew'. There had to be a biological father. Question is, did she give Tegan to him?

I don’t doubt the existence of Tegan’s biological father either. Her conception wasn’t immaculate!

Whether Tegan’s father is ‘Andrew’ or Duncan Gillies, I don’t know. Unless Duncan wasn’t having sex with Keli when she conceived or he is infertile.

The only person who knows the truth about what happened to Tegan once she was discharged, that we know at this point in time, is Keli.