Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #1

[laserdisc10]

"Rise and fall of flawed hermit Gable Tostee caught in fatal web of sex hook-ups"

Wtfh, I *hate* how this headline makes HIM sound like the victim!!!

The only person who 'fell' was Warriena. The only person caught ina 'fatal' anything was -- Warriena.

I think Gable Tostee has less 'fallen' than lived a long, slow decline from the innocence of his first year alive until he hit the region of 'total ' at the age of 28. Whoever wrote that headline needs a good kick in the pants. IMO.

I wasn't going to, but Ausgirl's post basically forced me to log-in to echo my agreement

Personally, I'm sick to the back teeth with all the LABELS ! I'm tired of the BS !

Every single person on this planet could be described as falling into some 'syndrome' or other. EVERY one

It's some sort of craze, trend. He's a 'this'. She's a 'mild that'. Someone else is a combination of 'this' alphabet label and 'that' alphabet 'label'. And doesn't it make the labelled seem speshul !

It's not poor parenting or lack of discipline or lower than average IQ or tendency to manifest his father or grandmother's bad temper and emotional immaturity -- oh no -- it's a 'syndrome' or a 'condition', blabla

All zebras are striped but all those stripes are slightly different. Do we have a psychiatric manual labelling every zebra based on their marginally different stripes? No, of course we don't. Not yet at least. Because there's no money for the psychiatric lobby in creating syndromes re: zebra stripes

Humans on the other hand jump gleefully at the opportunity to ascribe various conditions and syndromes etc. to themselves and their offspring. It pours billions into the coffers of pharmaceutical companies and keeps the mental-health crowd in work. So no longer is someone a useless waste of time who steals from his grandma, takes drugs and claims no job suits his tastes -- oh no -- suddenly the useless waste of space is provided a get-out-of-jail-free card by the mumbo-jumbo crew and their pills and potions and therapies and bag of excuses


A woman who was once my close friend didn't have too many visible issues other than the fact her lips used to swell up when she was annoyed, didn't get her own way and was generally 'upset'. We all knew to tread on eggshells or vacate the premises when we saw those lips puffing up

But then she had a second child and it was not the girl she'd expected and prepared for. Instead, it was a healthy little boy. And he didn't fit the pink and white nursery she'd forced her husband to prepare, nor could he wear all those pretty baby-girl outfits she'd been buying in expectation of a girl

So what did she do? She refused to touch him. Refused to accept she'd had another boy. Doctors and nurses were concerned. Her husband asked us to talk to her, talk some sense into her. And it seemed she got over herself and took the new baby home. Except when I visited her very early one morning because our husbands had gone to golf at the crack of dawn, it was to discover the older boy dressed appropriately and apple of his mother's eye. The second, newest son however was stuck in a potty chair wearing only a nightdress. His little feet were purple with cold. He had snot running down his face and it was old, witnessed by the fact some of it had crusted

There was that poor little boy, neglected, being punished basically, for not being a girl. Yet he wore a great big smile when I entered the room. He didn't complain about the cold and hunger and neglect. He was a little winner, that kid

Fast forward 17 years, during which we'd moved and got in touch only via Christmas cards. My puffy lipped friend and her eldest son dropped in. They were planning to buy up our way, planning to semi-retire. And their golden-child, the accepted eldest son was part of their plans, he and his personalised number-plated car and attitude

What about the youngest boy, I asked? Oh, he was being discarded. He wasn't allowed to move with them. They were 'sick' of him, apparently. He was being left behind to fend for himself. And thank goodness, they said, that they no longer blamed themselves for the way he was. Joy of joys, he'd been diagnosed as ADHD, which at the time was the hot trend. Got a problem? You probably have ADHD. Got a child who's experiencing some minor or majoy ups and downs in life? Not your fault, Mum and Dad. He's ADHD -- that magical letter-group which absolves parents of any responsibility and sticks a label on the kid which he can now use as excuse for virtually anything just as long as he continues to munch down the latest potions

I wondered what the hell had been wrong with me all those years ago to explain my lack of judgement re: my fat-lipped friend? What a loser she was. Why hadn't I seen it and saved a lot of time and energy? Who knows, hey -- maybe some syndrome or condition or alphabet-trend clouded my judgement? Maybe there's a pill for it


And the same goes for Tostee, imo. Quit the excuses. We can all find excuses and drag out some invented 'syndrome' for ourselves and our loved ones to explain away our own and their less than optimum behaviours

Hang on a tic. Maybe we should? Maybe we should ALL grab ourselves one of those alphabet 'disorders' ?

Maybe we should grab two or three !

If we ALL lay claim to various 'disorders', 'syndromes' and 'conditions' ----- it will be game over. No fun in being just one of the herd. Those laying claim to psychiatry's inventions will move on. Their breathtaking news about their child's 'disorder' won't cause anyone to bat an eyelid -- won't gain attention any longer -- will be as common as sliced bread


So enough, media. Quit the excuses for Tostee. And quit trying to drum up business for the mental-health crowd, using Tostee as advertisement for how to excuse yourself for your vile offspring via alphabet 'conditions' which supposedly absolve parents of responsibility

Tostee was charged with murder. He had no right to murder anyone. He's alive, Warriena is dead. Tostee has to pay. End of

 

[SouthAussie]

Police have alleged they have retrieved mobile phone footage of the incident where she tried to escape from Tostee.

Tostee did not appear in the dock but his solicitor spoke on his behalf, a brief formality.

Next court appearance scheduled for October 10th

Channel 7 Sunrise

Wow .. I just heard this on the morning news. That police will allege Warriena fell to her death trying to escape from Tostee. I was so afraid that he had her trapped in the apartment somehow, either by taking the deadlock key, or barring her way somehow. But then again she may have been trying to escape from him after he lifted her up too.

Remember someone said that she may have been balcony-hopping? Was she trying to get onto the next door balcony and something happened, because she certainly was not the type to balcony hop onto the balcony of someone else that she didn't know imo. She was not a schoolie away for a holiday. She was screaming in fear.

Has anyone seen more detail on this?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

God almighty .. takes me back to my single days where I had a few encounters good and bad .. anyone else here pretend to be a lesbian when she couldn't get rid of a real creeper?

 

[Amee]

Magistrate John Costanzo remanded Tostee in custody until October 10 and ordered police provide a brief of evidence by September 30.

Outside court, Mr Purcell said Tostee ‘maintains his innocence’.

“We look forward to receiving the brief of evidence so we can move on with the court process,” he said.

“I have instructions to make application for bail in the Supreme Court in the weeks to come.”

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-caught-on-tape/story-fnihsrk2-1227026185382

 

[laserdisc10]

Wow .. I just heard this on the morning news. That police will allege Warriena fell to her death trying to escape from Tostee. I was so afraid that he had her trapped in the apartment somehow, either by taking the deadlock key, or barring her way somehow. But then again she may have been trying to escape from him after he lifted her up too.

Remember someone said that she may have been balcony-hopping? Was she trying to get onto the next door balcony and something happened, because she certainly was not the type to balcony hop onto the balcony of someone else that she didn't know imo. She was not a schoolie away for a holiday. She was screaming in fear.

Has anyone seen more detail on this?

Has to be more to it, or they wouldn't have charged him with murder, imo

If someone fell while trying to escape another, that wouldn't be classified as 'murder', would it? Wouldn't it be 'misadventure' or one of the lesser charges?

So as they charged him with 'murder' and took only a week to do so, he must have been the primary cause of her death, not a contributing factor, surely?

If she'd died, as described, while 'trying to get away', defence could argue she caused her own death. Defence could claim Tostee did not force her to clamber over a balcony when all she had to do was call for help or phone an emergency number, whatever. Defence could claim Warriena 'overreacted' to what was a 'joke' on Tostee's part. They could claim she had the option to hide in a bathroom, for example, and exiting via a high balcony was her choice, therefore not 'murder'

Isis posted several posts yesterday direct from Pott's website and 'murder' was very clearly defined. I doubt investigators would charge him with murder if they believed there was any wriggle-room. We'll have to wait until October to learn more, most probably, with the media gaining all they can from it at the moment. Which is a good thing, imo, because for some reason, the media's slant seems subtly pro-Tostee

 

[they'll get you]

That's creepy - just drinking water and then targeting the drunk girls at the end of the night.

That is extremely calculated :scared:

My nephew used to admit he'd wait until closing and then hit on the drunkest girl because he wouldn't have to waste his money on her drinks. :what:

This is many years ago when he was a no-good barfly, he's happily married now with two children.

 

[MsAnais]

I wasn't going to, but Ausgirl's post basically forced me to log-in to echo my agreement

Personally, I'm sick to the back teeth with all the LABELS ! I'm tired of the BS !

Every single person on this planet could be described as falling into some 'syndrome' or other. EVERY one

It's some sort of craze, trend. He's a 'this'. She's a 'mild that'. Someone else is a combination of 'this' alphabet label and 'that' alphabet 'label'. And doesn't it make the labelled seem speshul !

It's not poor parenting or lack of discipline or lower than average IQ or tendency to manifest his father or grandmother's bad temper and emotional immaturity -- oh no -- it's a 'syndrome' or a 'condition', blabla

All zebras are striped but all those stripes are slightly different. Do we have a psychiatric manual labelling every zebra based on their marginally different stripes? No, of course we don't. Not yet at least. Because there's no money for the psychiatric lobby in creating syndromes re: zebra stripes

Humans on the other hand jump gleefully at the opportunity to ascribe various conditions and syndromes etc. to themselves and their offspring. It pours billions into the coffers of pharmaceutical companies and keeps the mental-health crowd in work. So no longer is someone a useless waste of time who steals from his grandma, takes drugs and claims no job suits his tastes -- oh no -- suddenly the useless waste of space is provided a get-out-of-jail-free card by the mumbo-jumbo crew and their pills and potions and therapies and bag of excuses


A woman who was once my close friend didn't have too many visible issues other than the fact her lips used to swell up when she was annoyed, didn't get her own way and was generally 'upset'. We all knew to tread on eggshells or vacate the premises when we saw those lips puffing up

But then she had a second child and it was not the girl she'd expected and prepared for. Instead, it was a healthy little boy. And he didn't fit the pink and white nursery she'd forced her husband to prepare, nor could he wear all those pretty baby-girl outfits she'd been buying in expectation of a girl

So what did she do? She refused to touch him. Refused to accept she'd had another boy. Doctors and nurses were concerned. Her husband asked us to talk to her, talk some sense into her. And it seemed she got over herself and took the new baby home. Except when I visited her very early one morning because our husbands had gone to golf at the crack of dawn, it was to discover the older boy dressed appropriately and apple of his mother's eye. The second, newest son however was stuck in a potty chair wearing only a nightdress. His little feet were purple with cold. He had snot running down his face and it was old, witnessed by the fact some of it had crusted

There was that poor little boy, neglected, being punished basically, for not being a girl. Yet he wore a great big smile when I entered the room. He didn't complain about the cold and hunger and neglect. He was a little winner, that kid

Fast forward 17 years, during which we'd moved and got in touch only via Christmas cards. My puffy lipped friend and her eldest son dropped in. They were planning to buy up our way, planning to semi-retire. And their golden-child, the accepted eldest son was part of their plans, he and his personalised number-plated car and attitude

What about the youngest boy, I asked? Oh, he was being discarded. He wasn't allowed to move with them. They were 'sick' of him, apparently. He was being left behind to fend for himself. And thank goodness, they said, that they no longer blamed themselves for the way he was. Joy of joys, he'd been diagnosed as ADHD, which at the time was the hot trend. Got a problem? You probably have ADHD. Got a child who's experiencing some minor or majoy ups and downs in life? Not your fault, Mum and Dad. He's ADHD -- that magical letter-group which absolves parents of any responsibility and sticks a label on the kid which he can now use as excuse for virtually anything just as long as he continues to munch down the latest potions

I wondered what the hell had been wrong with me all those years ago to explain my lack of judgement re: my fat-lipped friend? What a loser she was. Why hadn't I seen it and saved a lot of time and energy? Who knows, hey -- maybe some syndrome or condition or alphabet-trend clouded my judgement? Maybe there's a pill for it


And the same goes for Tostee, imo. Quit the excuses. We can all find excuses and drag out some invented 'syndrome' for ourselves and our loved ones to explain away our own and their less than optimum behaviours

Hang on a tic. Maybe we should? Maybe we should ALL grab ourselves one of those alphabet 'disorders' ?

Maybe we should grab two or three !

If we ALL lay claim to various 'disorders', 'syndromes' and 'conditions' ----- it will be game over. No fun in being just one of the herd. Those laying claim to psychiatry's inventions will move on. Their breathtaking news about their child's 'disorder' won't cause anyone to bat an eyelid -- won't gain attention any longer -- will be as common as sliced bread


So enough, media. Quit the excuses for Tostee. And quit trying to drum up business for the mental-health crowd, using Tostee as advertisement for how to excuse yourself for your vile offspring via alphabet 'conditions' which supposedly absolve parents of responsibility

Tostee was charged with murder. He had no right to murder anyone. He's alive, Warriena is dead. Tostee has to pay. End of

Here, here laserdisc!!

 

[MsAnais]

God almighty .. takes me back to my single days where I had a few encounters good and bad .. anyone else here pretend to be a lesbian when she couldn't get rid of a real creeper?

Yep!!! I forgot about that til you said it. :lol:

My best friend and I did that alot in the bars of Sydney.

The thing is, some guys are outrageously persistent......ugh!!!:facepalm:

 

[possumheart]

Beautifully written laserdisc10.
Psychiatrists and psychologists are hopefully there to guide people to a reasonable sense inner harmony, a place where they can exist and obey the first rule: do no harm. There is, and always has been a tendency for the human consciousness to wallow in alienation. The gaping hole of alienation then gets filled with shopping, meaningless sex, schadenfreude ... Tostee was filling his void with ejaculations into strangers, rationalising this as some sort of 'winning' ... I have thought of Charlie Sheen a few times when pondering this. 150 warm bodies and no real intimacy.
There is an experiment where a baby monkey is offered a choice of mother substitute. One substitute is mesh with a baby's bottle of milk, the other is mesh covered with towelling. The baby monkey seeks the tactility and not the nourishment. I don't see GT as bedding these women for nourishment of his soul or to satisfy a tactile need for intimacy. He is fully alienated and seeks only to 'win'.

 

[Tangled_Web]

That Courier Mail article is disappointing writing in terms of being a news story. A compilation of forum posts isn't news imo, and there aren't too many 'facts' in there. Where does the info about him being an autistic savant come from? Surely not just GT's own bragging posts on a forum? Don't even get me started on how the article ends - unless there is more following in the subscriber or print versions?
Sorry it just irked me reading that as it just came across as sensationalist and without much substance. I think I've woken up grumpy! :gaah:

Very lazy journalism and increasingly common. A new name other than journalist/reporter needs to be found for those who gather bits and pieces from social media and put it together as news. This forum provides far more depth and insight than most MSM sources that produce shallow sensationalism.

While on this topic, I just have to say something about the ACA report the other night. Of course I had to watch it BUT it was worse than I could have expected. I thought it was outrageous that the producer of the segment (who had previously encountered GT via Tinder) became the news story. She even said: "It does concern me that I was in contact with him because that could have been me". Well it wasn't you.

A very similar story appeared following Jill Meagher's murder - a Brisbane journalist wrote a piece about how this could have been her because she had walked home from the Valley (in Brisbane) on the same night and was the same age as Jill. It infuriated me. I thought it was so disrespectful (not to mention being crap journalism).

Both grumpy and I have woken up!

 

[SouthAussie]

Who knew Warriena was in the unit as they hooked up via Tinda. Warriena fell 14 floors so how did LE know where she fell from so quickly? Somewhere directly upwards.

Someone knew and reported the exact floor and the exact unit. IMO.

"A woman who saw her fall called police and by the time they arrived, Mr Tostee was gone. He handed himself into police later that morning.

Ms Wright, 26, was seen with Mr Tostee on the balcony of his Avalon apartment in Surfers Paradise drinking and talking on Thursday night".
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1227019228229

Very strong whiffs of Gittany here but this seems a much stronger case. HIDDEN CAMERAS & EVIDENCE FROM NEIGHBOURS. Gittany was free for a long time Tostee got toasted much quicker.

BBM Excellent point TGY. It is not as if Tostee rang police and said 'a terrible accident has happened .. I live on the 14th floor'. Someone saw where Warriena fell from (and recorded it?)

 

[Amee]

It was revealed that secret recordings made on the day the New Zealand tourist plunged to her death from the high-rise building led to Tostee being charged with her murder.


The case against Tostee - who has boasted about his conquests online - was brought about after police seized footage allegedly showing the meeting between him and Ms Wright when they connected via mobile dating app Tinder. according to The Daily Telegraph.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ist-Warriena-Wrights-death.html#ixzz3AVbqYAUq

 

[Amee]

Warriena would have had a bag and phone with her. Were they found in the apartment or sadly on her?

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Thank you everyone for keeping everyone else up to date with this dreadful murder. I have many thoughts spinning around in my head that I'd like to bounce off you:

Re GT having some sort / degree of Autism - It doesn't seem to fit with a man who habitually goes to clubs which are crowded with people socialising. Nor does the description by a girl who'd met him at a club as "a great conversationalist"!!! I will be mega peed-off if his defence tries his "autism" to get him off or to reduce his sentence. There are heaps of odd bods in the world who do no harm.

IMO - Warriena rejected his sexual advances and this bruised and enraged his fragile narcissistic ego. I had a bad experience many years ago as an Aussie in London. I went to a pub with a bloke I'd met at a tube station. He started to paw me, so I said that it wasn't welcome and that I was going back to my flat. However, he'd left his coat at my flat when I'd dropped my backpack in, so he said that he had to come back and pick it up.

When we got to my flat, I handed him his coat at the front door and told him to leave. He was 6' 3" (so he told me), and I'm 5' 3", and then weighed about 8 stone (50 kg). He said "I'm not leaving until I teach you not to be angry". He then stayed in my flat terrorising me until dawn. He threatened to rape me, but didn't. I didn't go to the police because I thought that they'd just think I was another stupid woman and it was my fault. To this day, part of me thinks "I should have gone to the police", but I still think that I would have been humiliated and it would have been a waste of time.

So what's this got to do with this case? I now realise that he was a narcissist and that I'd enraged his fragile ego by both rejecting him and being angry with him for trying it on. A "normal" person would have just thought "it was worth a try" and left. It's taken me a long time to learn that you can't assume that all those you deal with a fair and reasonable, and have the same values as yourself. Maybe Warriena was coming from that perspective.

It also makes me very sad that so many young and not-so-young women today are putting their physical and emotional selves at risk with men they do not know at all. I recently heard of a local woman in her 40s who's had sex with 13 men she's met on a dating site over a period of 14 days. She lives alone and lets them come to her house.

 

[MsAnais]

I wasn't going to, but Ausgirl's post basically forced me to log-in to echo my agreement

Personally, I'm sick to the back teeth with all the LABELS ! I'm tired of the BS !

Every single person on this planet could be described as falling into some 'syndrome' or other. EVERY one

It's some sort of craze, trend. He's a 'this'. She's a 'mild that'. Someone else is a combination of 'this' alphabet label and 'that' alphabet 'label'. And doesn't it make the labelled seem speshul !

It's not poor parenting or lack of discipline or lower than average IQ or tendency to manifest his father or grandmother's bad temper and emotional immaturity -- oh no -- it's a 'syndrome' or a 'condition', blabla

RSBM

Tostee was charged with murder. He had no right to murder anyone. He's alive, Warriena is dead. Tostee has to pay. End of

I completely agree with you Laserdisc.

Obviously I studied psychology - I completed a Masters degree at uni in Clin Psych - and it was such an outrageously shallow education. The entire focus was on diagnosis, testing and cognitive-behavioural therapy. We were told we were the 'experts' and the client was to listen to our expertise. Pfffftt....I personally come from a Humanist perspective which believes the therapist should accompany the client on the inner journey as the client is the only one who can heal themselves.....I can be a deep emotional support, but not an 'expert'.

Everything of depth that I learnt came out of having my own therapy (which they NEVER recommended to us) and in practical training in various therapeutic modalities SEPARATE to university.

As someone who witnessed those training to be psychs up close and personal, I am someone who tells all my friends to be incredibly wary of psychologists and psychiatrists. I tell them to check out what therapeutic modalities they're trained in and really feel into it. Don't just go to any old one. So many are heady and cut-off. They got good academic marks so could get into the course, but so many lacked depth or insight. And so many were pro-medication and superficial six-session 'cures' rather than depth therapy.

Of course, some of my uni colleagues were fabulous. And ALL of those ones were concurrently having their own therapy so they didn't project their stuff everywhere unconsciously.

And I'm with you on the labelling. It's a quick fix for the psych or psychiatrist - far easier to simply diagnose than try to work with the family to get to the core of the issues.

When I still worked in child protection practically every child I had as a client was diagnosed with ADD or ADHD (the disorder de jour at the time:facepalm. I never bought it. Their families had many issues going on during their early childhoods and they lacked the emotional nurturing they required - thus the desperate acting out for attention. Combined with a cruddy diet filled with preservatives and sugar, which helps no child.

Anyway, rant over. I just wanted to share that.

And I know some children really do have Aspergers and ARE on the spectrum - but no way is it as many as are being diagnosed. Please :facepalm:

And for what it's worth - I don't believe for one second that GT is autistic!!! I do believe he may well have OCD - and that explains SOME of his paranoia and rigid behaviour. But he's personality disordered all the way......JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Bit of a scab on the right knee too ... and on the right elbow. Did someone push him down and he grazed himself?

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...s-caught-on-tape/story-e6frfkp9-1227026185382

 

[SouthAussie]

Has to be more to it, or they wouldn't have charged him with murder, imo

If someone fell while trying to escape another, that wouldn't be classified as 'murder', would it? Wouldn't it be 'misadventure' or one of the lesser charges?

So as they charged him with 'murder' and took only a week to do so, he must have been the primary cause of her death, not a contributing factor, surely?

If she'd died, as described, while 'trying to get away', defence could argue she caused her own death. Defence could claim Tostee did not force her to clamber over a balcony when all she had to do was call for help or phone an emergency number, whatever. Defence could claim Warriena 'overreacted' to what was a 'joke' on Tostee's part. They could claim she had the option to hide in a bathroom, for example, and exiting via a high balcony was her choice, therefore not 'murder'

Isis posted several posts yesterday direct from Pott's website and 'murder' was very clearly defined. I doubt investigators would charge him with murder if they believed there was any wriggle-room. We'll have to wait until October to learn more, most probably, with the media gaining all they can from it at the moment. Which is a good thing, imo, because for some reason, the media's slant seems subtly pro-Tostee

Hmmm ... not so sure about that. I think if an innocent person dies in the commission of a crime (attempted rape, drugging someone for illicit purposes, depriving a person of their liberty) it is murder. Will have to do more research on that.

The way that it was reported on the news sounded as though it was taken right from the court (non)appearance this morning.


Here is one link about it. http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4385/what-constitutes-the-crime-of-murder-the-basic-ele.aspx
Though there must be more detail somewhere.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yep!!! I forgot about that til you said it. :lol:

My best friend and I did that alot in the bars of Sydney.

The thing is, some guys are outrageously persistent......ugh!!!:facepalm:

Yeah some guys then wanted to try and take you both home LOL!!!

 

[Ausgirl]

Isis, and the other hand, try getting help for a disorder that doesn't fit the 'cookie cutter' disorder manual... But that's another conversation, lol.. sorry OT. But yes, there's a lot wrong with the psych industry (and it IS an industry!).

IMO "spoiled brat", "egregious a-hole", "srsly messed up by lousy parents" and "nasty piece of work" are totally valid diagnoses. But that's why I'm not a practising psychologist.

 

[MsAnais]

Yeah some guys then wanted to try and take you both home LOL!!!

Yup!! They were always quality folk!!! :facepalm: