Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #3

[SouthAussie]

Tostee remains behind bars ahead of an expected bail application in the Supreme Court sitting in Brisbane.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ler-gable-tostee/story-fnihsrf2-1227086234011

I wonder if this means that he'll be in jail until 12th January regardless, and that the next bail application won't happen until then, or after then.
Maybe the Supreme Court docket is filled until January .... lease:

She remanded Tostee, who has been in custody since August 15, until January 12.

Ms Clark said police analysis of evidence also needed to be expedited for the resumption of Tostee's bail application, which has yet to be listed.

The application, which has been adjourned to allow the accused's defence team to compile a report on Tostee's mental state and alleged autism, has yet been given a date to resume.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...defence-team-great-concern.html#ixzz3FsLOolEW

 

[catswhiskers]

As tensions emerged between Tostee's new legal team and investigators, police said rushing the presentation of the brief of evidence would be 'setting the prosecution up to fail'.

Lawyers for Tostee complained on Friday about police delays in gathering evidence, as detectives said they were still seeking overseas witnesses and evidence in the murder case of 26-year-old Warriena Wright, who allegedly fell to her death from Tostee's high rise Surfers Paradise apartment on August 8.

Defence lawyer Kate Clark told Magistrate Kerry Magee in Southport Magistrate's Court she was 'seeking explanations for the delay' in police putting together their case against Tostee. Ms Clark said examining the electronic evidence against Tostee alone could delay the case by four to five months.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...defence-team-great-concern.html#ixzz3FsLOolEW

Ms Clark is confusing me - how can she be seeking explanations about the delay, then in the next breath acknowledge that examining the electronic evidence could take many months? That electronic evidence is very important in this particular case, and that is her own client's doing. Good on the police for sticking to their guns and not rushing their investigation. GT's own actions immediately after Warriena's fall from that balcony set, plus those first statements by neighbours let the police this was no accident, and I'm so proud that they haven't been swayed to believe that it was.

 

[SouthAussie]

Kate Clark has some interesting aspects … her psychology knowledge may be exactly what Tostee needs in his defence approach (and in managing him as a client).

- She is relatively new to the bar, admitted just 5 years ago in 2009
- She holds a Bachelor of Laws with Honours, and a Bachelor of Psychological Science from Griffith University - having started with a Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice from ANU
- She was a Family Law lawyer for 2 years
- Then joined O’Gorman’s team in 2011
- She also does some pro bono work at a legal centre

http://www.findlaw.com.au/lawyer/12908/kate-clark.aspx


“She is also considered to have a high level of client care which is of great assistance when dealing with difficult situations in clients lives.”

http://www.robertsonogorman.com.au/o...le/kate-clark/

 

[MsAnais]

So here is some interesting info from another case I'm following on WS - Thomas Hemming - who HAS been diagnosed with Aspergers. Here is what his barrister has said:



He said Hemming had been diagnosed with asperger’s syndrome but conceded this could not explain his offending.

``He clearly knew right from wrong,’’ he said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...f-it-court-hears/story-fni0fee2-1227088767300



And here is what his psychiatrist has said:

Hemming has Asperger's syndrome, which was discussed as a possible cause for the attack, but his psychiatrist told the court people with Aspergers were more likely to be vulnerable victims in the community than perpetrators.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-...dered-melbourne-couple-in-thrill-kill/5809142

 

[MsAnais]

Another thing from the Hemming hearing that is relevant to this case:


Justice King said Hemming killed the Adamsons and took steps to try to avoid being caught which showed he was aware what he had done was wrong.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...ourt-hears-20141013-1159e9.html#ixzz3FzdyZAmu

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Marly pointed out earlier in the thread that it was only a partial transcript that was available for the bail hearing ... and so available to police, the court and the defence ... and to the media (and others) to purchase.

So the defence want the whole transcript, as they are entitled to have.

But, with the recording not being on the original device, it may be that the police are trying to resurrect the recording from the original recording device - if/when they identify that, if they have not done so already - and get the real whole transcript (that may be part of what the 5 months to get all the evidence may be about).

Read up a little on audio evidence in court cases and stumbled upon the word "priming"? http://forensictranscription.com.au/priming/
Many versions of the audio transcript (incomplete) have flooded the news, and the defence can now perhaps argue that potential jury members have been "primed", especially having been exposed to so much prejudicial pretrial publicity. It seems that the Police is still getting the retrieved audio file forensically examined which we have learnt takes a long time. Phonetics experts, etc. need to be consulted before the audio file can be even be admitted to Court as evidence. No matter how we look at it, it was irresponsible to have let the transcript get out to the Public and wreak damage. Possibly a glimpse of the angle that the defence is working on?
The fact that audio file is not on the original recording device of course makes it even more complicated.

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Another thing from the Hemming hearing that is relevant to this case:


Justice King said Hemming killed the Adamsons and took steps to try to avoid being caught which showed he was aware what he had done was wrong.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...ourt-hears-20141013-1159e9.html#ixzz3FzdyZAmu

This story...when I read it sent shivers running up my spine. Hemming pleaded guilty. He knew what he did was wrong. Sometimes, we just cannot deny that pure evil exists in this world.

 

[MsAnais]

This story...when I read it sent shivers running up my spine. Hemming pleaded guilty. He knew what he did was wrong. Sometimes, we just cannot deny that pure evil exists in this world.

I agree that it is an absolutely HORRENDOUS crime - one of the most chilling I've read about, due to the awful brutality and complete randomness of it all.

But I have to disagree with the idea that pure evil is the cause of this. This young man, Thomas Hemming, is obviously seriously mentally unwell and never received the intervention that he needed. Something needs to change so that guys like this don't slip through the cracks and go on to act out their delusions in real life.

The whole case is just tragic.:facepalm:

 

[sosocurious]

I am a little curious as to why Michael Purcell formerly withdrew his representation.
On the surface it would appear that O'Gorman speaking out about the release of information to the media could well be the reason GT changed teams.
I just cannot help wondering about the possibility of a conflict of interest.

 

[MsAnais]

I am a little curious as to why Michael Purcell formerly withdrew his representation.
On the surface it would appear that O'Gorman speaking out about the release of information to the media could well be the reason GT changed teams.
I just cannot help wondering about the possibility of a conflict of interest.

Hey soso! :seeya:

That's very interesting. I'm just wondering what the conflict of interest would be, that you're referring to?

 

[BigT]

Hey soso! :seeya:

That's very interesting. I'm just wondering what the conflict of interest would be, that you're referring to?

Michael Purcell was previously a prosecutor as I understand it, and the accused has previous convictions. If the current prosecutor perceives an interest from Michael Purcell in previous prosecutions of the accused, a conflict may be claimed. If it has some merit it may be prudent for a withdrawal. (The law is an ass)

What is interesting is the interest of O'Gorman. Don't mistake a passion to uphold civil liberty, with any compassion for a guilty accused. O'Gorman is straight laced and will be clearly focused on a fair trial, ensuring that true and genuine evidence is led, and a sound, just outcome, same focus as the public prosecutor, same focus as a trial judge. It is a decision for his client if this is the best strategy.

It would seem to me that GT strategy of silence has not worked out well for him. It is hypothetical, however ponder if he had stayed and faced the music on the night, met with police and simply told them what he allegedly told his dad? He may always have had to answer a wrongful death, but he may not have had to defend it from remand. He has extraordinary media attention, and media have well documented "Baden Clay" circulation statistics. This guy and the story just oozes advertising dollars.

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/09/...gable-tostee-media-coverage-crossed-the-line/

 

[sosocurious]

Hey soso! :seeya:

That's very interesting. I'm just wondering what the conflict of interest would be, that you're referring to?

Hi GIR
I wish I knew, that's if there is one of course.
To be honest I was not referring to anything in particular.
Just pondering what has been released in the media thus far and it just seemed that it could be a possibility.

 

[sosocurious]

Michael Purcell was previously a prosecutor as I understand it, and the accused has previous convictions. If the current prosecutor perceives an interest from Michael Purcell in previous prosecutions of the accused, a conflict may be claimed. If it has some merit it may be prudent for a withdrawal. (The law is an ass)

What is interesting is the interest of O'Gorman. Don't mistake a passion to uphold civil liberty, with any compassion for a guilty accused. O'Gorman is straight laced and will be clearly focused on a fair trial, ensuring that true and genuine evidence is led, and a sound, just outcome, same focus as the public prosecutor, same focus as a trial judge. It is a decision for his client if this is the best strategy.

It would seem to me that GT strategy of silence has not worked out well for him. It is hypothetical, however ponder if he had stayed and faced the music on the night, met with police and simply told them what he allegedly told his dad? He may always have had to answer a wrongful death, but he may not have had to defend it from remand. He has extraordinary media attention, and media have well documented "Baden Clay" circulation statistics. This guy and the story just oozes advertising dollars.

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/09/...gable-tostee-media-coverage-crossed-the-line/

Thanks Big T for that explanation. I have no idea about law.
I agree with you that GT's silence may not have been the best approach.
He did attempt to phone his lawyer at record speed which IMO indicates he was fully aware that he would require representation.

 

[MsAnais]

Hi GIR
I wish I knew, that's if there is one of course.
To be honest I was not referring to anything in particular.
Just pondering what has been released in the media thus far and it just seemed that it could be a possibility.

Thanks for clarifying - I thought I missed something!

PS just call me Isis :seeya:

 

[sosocurious]

Thanks for clarifying - I thought I missed something!

PS just call me Isis :seeya:

OK Isis

 

[possumheart]

http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/3rd-degree/australia-balcony-death-highlights-tinder-risks-2014101520

Nineteen-year-old Sammy Soden is one of many women who liked Tostee on Tinder.
"He had muscles in his photos!" she says. "He was all right looking, and his description was 'a nice guy looking for a couple of friends'. It wasn't one you would see like 'looking for a girl to have a little bit of fun with'."
But says she quickly went off him.
"The conversations started off quite 'hi, how are you', everything like that. And then it turned into 'send me nudes, send me photos'. That's when I stopped talking to him."
But Ms Soden was to meet him out at a Gold Coast club shortly after.
"Obviously my experience with Gable, to me it wasn't life-threatening, but he showed me a different side of him that he didn't show me when he would talk to me on Tinder. On Tinder he seemed like a really nice guy who was down-to-earth and liked to hang out with friends. But when I met him in person he was one of those guys who really don't want to talk because they stink of alcohol and just follow you around and keep grabbing you."

We won't know exactly who Tostee is or was that night until his murder trial, which could be two years away – a long wait for Ms Wrights' friends and family.
"It's a tragedy," says Lochy. "I'd be devastated if it was my daughter. I'd want to know the truth as well. But we are Gable's friends and will stand by him until he is proven innocent, and I'm sure he will be. I hope he will be, yes."

 

[MsAnais]

3rd Degree talked to a lot of bouncers and club managers about Tostee and his reputation, and he did have one – a bad one.

"Basically that he's a bit of a predator to the females," says club owner Simon King. "A lot of security obviously watched him pursuing women and obviously security were tipped off by those women. I remember hearing stories about him following females home."

In the middle of this year, security staff banned him from many of the bars and clubs in Surfers Paradise.

http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/3rd-...hlights-tinder-risks-2014101520#ixzz3GHhZ2FFW

 

[MsAnais]

In late July Tostee came to see Mr King about being banned from his club.

......."For all intents and purposes looking at him, he was a good looking bloke – physically fit. He was he was just an odd character. He wouldn't look me in the eye – just strange, just uncomfortable feeling."

http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/3rd-...hlights-tinder-risks-2014101520#ixzz3GHhnW7QX


And that's the bit that you wouldn't necessarily pick up on Tinder - his interpersonal skills and the sense of something 'odd' about him when you're face to face...........

 

[MsAnais]

So he titled the recording....... I wonder what the preceding 23 sessions consist of??!!:thinking::

Tostee was making an audio recording of the meeting, called Session 24, now vital evidence in a murder trial.

http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/3rd-...hlights-tinder-risks-2014101520#ixzz3GHiZmGjN

 

[SouthAussie]

I’ve been having a look at O’Gorman’s track record, and this is not the first case where he has complained about the media coverage prior to trial, and I'm sure that it won’t be the last. He complains about it a lot. But I think in this day of social media and rapid delivery of information, it is something he will need to adjust to .. or not. He'd really like us to be in the dark about everything, in every case, until after the trial - which we all know can take a couple of years.

But Robert Long's lawyer, Terry O'Gorman, believes he'll find it hard to get a fair trial. O'Gorman believes Long's already been tried and convicted by the media.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s147223.htm

TERRY O'GORMAN: The facts of Dennis Ferguson and the way he's been pilloried and deliberately chased by the media has a consequence.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2008/s2292662.htm

Australian Council for Civil Liberties president Terry O'Gorman says the move will put bikers on trial by media and enable jurors to google their criminal histories.

https://www.facebook.com/UMCWA/posts/550960394980448

Terry O’Gorman, who is representing person of interest Vincent O’Dempsey, told Brisbane Times police had leaked information about the case to selected media outlets, and said he had to find out from a journalist that his client had been taken into custody.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ulkin-case-20140810-102gid.html#ixzz3GIAziWA1

Hey Dad! actor Robert Hughes was last night named as the man at the centre of on-set child molestation claims dating back 17 years, sparking a huge media frenzy.

Australian Council of Civil Liberties president Terry O'Gorman told brisbanetimes.com.au today people accused of such offences should be protected before they went to trial to prevent trial-by-media.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-sex-accused-20100325-qz5r.html#ixzz3GIBEu7Up