Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #6

[Elde Fruit]

Exactly right, we could say the same for GT. GT could have alerted his neighbours, he knew his apartment, his building, his city. But no, the young woman visiting has all the options and he had none, lol. GT couldn't release Warriena because she might contact the police! He KNEW he was in trouble and had done the wrong thing. GT is a control freak, he had to contain the situation which meant not letting Warriena leave. JMO

What would be the 'wrong thing' he knew he did?

 

[Trooper]

Ummm that would be Dr Beavan, correct? The same Dr Beavan that made absolutely no reference to the possibility of the injuries being caused by fingernail scratches during evidence-in-chief or cross examination, nevermind being unequivocally convinced of their origin?

Pages 26-28


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...aden-Clay-18th-June-Trial-Day-6-Week-2/page26

umm that would be pages 28 where Dr Beavan says it wasn't razor blade marks, it was fingernail marks, FRESH fingernail marks, .. .. she did not testify as to the origin of the fingernails, this would be entirely out of her remit, naturally.. but she was adamant about it. Not razor blades, .. so lets end this now, feeling dressed down isn't any reason to disseminate false information.. .

 

[JCB]

umm that would be pages 28 where Dr Beavan says it wasn't razor blade marks, it was fingernail marks, FRESH fingernail marks, .. .. she did not testify as to the origin of the fingernails, this would be entirely out of her remit, naturally.. but she was adamant about it. Not razor blades, .. so lets end this now, feeling dressed down isn't any reason to disseminate false information.. .

I'm loath to respond again but can you kindly direct me to the exact quote on page 28?

In fact, on page 28 - Dr Beaven says the marks on Gerard's face could be similar to marks caused by a "shave biopsy"

 

[possumheart]

oh dear

 

[PrimeSuspect]

What would be the 'wrong thing' he knew he did?

Should I make a list? Hurting her vagina? Holding her against her will, not letting her go no matter her distress and pleas. Recording her without her permission, subduing her either by suffocating her screams or throttling her. Warriena giving this account to the police wouldn't be a successful night out for GT.
There will NEVER be a reasonable excuse for GT to hold Warriena captive on his balcony, imo. Everyone can spin whatever they like. I realise there are some who feel Warriena placed herself in this position and it's her fault. GT isn't in their eyes responsible for anything. GT - manslaughter.

 

[Fluffykins]

Should I make a list? Hurting her vagina? Holding her against her will, not letting her go no matter her distress and pleas. Recording her without her permission, subduing her either by suffocating her screams or throttling her. Warriena giving this account to the police wouldn't be a successful night out for GT.
There will NEVER be a reasonable excuse for GT to hold Warriena captive on his balcony, imo. Everyone can spin whatever they like. I realise there are some who feel Warriena placed herself in this position and it's her fault. GT isn't in their eyes responsible for anything. GT - manslaughter.

Add making distilled alcohol to that list.

 

[NatalieJones]

A whole minute struggle on the balcony which resulted in Warriena being lowered over the balcony and falling within seconds of him going inside .... that's murder. But he will probably get off because of the prosecution's mysterious decision to allege she climbed over the balcony....

 

[Freya1977]

[FONT=&amp]“Applicant is upset about what people are saying about him on social media,” she said, adding that Tostee was incredibly focused on himself. - Judge Debra Mullins
[/FONT]
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au...s/news-story/614440cb0e558224b695da9d45c25e61

Interesting, I had a feeling he was here lol!

 

[Elde Fruit]

Should I make a list? Hurting her vagina?

There is no suggestion he did anything sexual without her consent.

Holding her against her will, not letting her go no matter her distress and pleas.

No. He asked her to leave several times. She refused to go, and attacked him.

Recording her without her permission,

He does not need her permission. It is perfectly legal to record.

subduing her either by suffocating her screams or throttling her.

He clearly did not silence her in any way. She is heard on the recording and by neighbours. The medical evidence of today does not support this suggestion of throttling.

Warriena giving this account to the police wouldn't be a successful night out for GT.

Except it did not happen that way, on all evidence.

There will NEVER be a reasonable excuse for GT to hold Warriena captive on his balcony, imo.

Self defence is a reasonable cause and, obviously, is recognised legal defence. He put her there to neutralise her.

Everyone can spin whatever they like. I realise there are some who feel Warriena placed herself in this position and it's her fault. GT isn't in their eyes responsible for anything. GT - manslaughter.

Not guilty of even manslaughter. There is not a sufficient connection between what he did (neutralise here on the balcony) and causing her to die.

 

[Freya1977]

I wonder what turned her mood sour that night. Probably a wannabe pornstar trying to make her be a "freak between the sheets". Oh boy, I slapped myself so hard in the face. I loved her responses. "does that ever work?".

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

 

[Freya1977]

There is no suggestion he did anything sexual without her consent.



No. He asked her to leave several times. She refused to go, and attacked him.



He does not need her permission. It is perfectly legal to record.



He clearly did not silence her in any way. She is heard on the recording and by neighbours. The medical evidence of today does not support this suggestion of throttling.



Except it did not happen that way, on all evidence.




Self defence is a reasonable cause and, obviously, is recognised legal defence. He put her there to neutralise her.



Not guilty of even manslaughter. There is not a sufficient connection between what he did (neutralise here on the balcony) and causing her to die.

Any explanation for the distinctive sound of a person being choked on that recording?

 

[Elde Fruit]

I wonder what turned her mood sour that night. Probably a wannabe pornstar trying to make her be a "freak between the sheets". Oh boy, I slapped myself so hard in the face. I loved her responses. "does that ever work?".

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Who knows, but the medical evidence of today may offer a satisfactory/available answer to that question. This young woman was not your average female of that age.

 

[Elde Fruit]

Any explanation for the distinctive sound of a person being choked on that recording?

A direction provided to the relevant part of the recording will assist me consider a relevant answer.

 

[Freya1977]

Who knows, but the medical evidence of today may offer a satisfactory/available answer to that question. This young woman was not your average female of that age.

She wasn't? Can you provide links? Meeting people on tinder is pretty common.

 

[Freya1977]

A direction provided to the relevant part of the recording will assist me consider a relevant answer.

It's unmistakable

 

[Trooper]

may I again remind all posters that this forum is a victim friendly forum.. it is irrelevant if the victim was beautiful, ugly, short, tall, 'normal' or ' average ' or 'not average'... or otherwise, she wound up dead on the pavement having plummeted 14 floors from Gabe Tostee's balcony, and he, not her, is on trial for her murder.. .

 

[Oz Jen]

Reminds me of one Jodi Arias. Phoned and left messages on Travis Alexander's phone after murdering him. Trying to make it look like she knew nothing of his demise...

GBC did the same.

 

[Freya1977]

GBC did the same.

Ah yes, another sleaze bag!

 

[MZD]

I don't think anyone has suggested that Gable was seriously injured during any alleged altercation, he clearly wasn't. It seems to be that Gable used the term "beaten up" (or similar, may be paraphrasing) for dramatic effect when speaking to his father. We are all prone to exaggerate when the unexpected happens, I'm sure Gable is no different.

However to suggest there is no evidence of Gable being assaulted is spurious in my opinion. The doctor examining Gable observed numerous injuries on his body and while none could definitively be aged (as this would be impossible) it was possible to exclude some injuries (which had scabbed for instance) but was not possible to exclude others as being recent (still bleeding/weeping). Given Gable's assertion that Warriena threw rocks at him and the subsequent discovery of Gable's blood and Warriena's DNA on at least 1 particular rock gives a great deal of credence to Gable's claim, indeed it's almost impossible to draw any other conclusion other than he was the victim of an assault.

Most of us have an agenda of some kind when we discuss passionate topics such as this which is only natural but I don't think it's particularly helpful to let our biases cloud our judgement. By all means advocate strongly for your position, but demonstrable falsities only serve to weaken the rest of an argument (which may well be strong). Look at it this way, in the Baden-Clay case Gerard exhibited very obvious wounds on his face. The wounds could not be aged with any degree of accuracy, nor could any medical professionals definitively say they were caused by human fingernails. No testable organic material was found under Allison's fingernails so to use similar logic you'd have to say there was no evidence of an assault or conflict? Clearly that would be preposterous and there is very little doubt that the wounds were the result of Allison's fingernails despite the absence of 100% definite proof. It's a slippery slope if we redefine our opinions to suit the argument at hand.



It's true that she did not have her phone but in a high density apartment complex in the early hours of the morning it's a statistical certainty that there would have been numerous people well within earshot (as is evidenced by the number of people who heard Gable and Warriena). And while 14 stories up is a significant height, it's quite possible to communicate with people on the ground at that height, particularly at night when ambient noise is at a minimum. There wouldn't have been a crowd of people in the immediate vicinity on the ground but it's central Surfers Paradise, there is always someone milling around.




Putting on my defence lawyers hat for a moment, it may well have just been a case of proximity. Warriena had shown a reluctance to leave only moments earlier, the balcony may simply have been the closest and easiest option.



Absolutely agree.



I certainly don't wish to play down the many serious incidents of domestic violence that do occur but we obviously only ever hear the negative side. No TV network is going to report on "Dave and Mary had a verbal altercation today but both walked away before things got physical". I have no data whatsoever to back up the following claim but it's my opinion that the overwhelming number of disagreements between males and females do not result in any kind of assault. I'm obviously all for domestic violence awareness and prevention initiatives but I also think is counter-productive to overestimate the risks and to stigmatise a large percentage of the population.



By and large the concept of a duty of care is a tort (civil matter) and while we all have something of a duty of care to others, it's more pronounced when one party is in a position of authority and/or trust. In this case it was a casual meeting between 2 consenting adults, the home brew alcohol was not legal but there was no evidence of coercion and Warriena consumed it of her own free will. The legality of the alcohol really isn't an issue in this case and the prosecution wisely did not focus on this as it would detract from more relevant matters.



As per my reply above, Warriena knowingly indulged in an intoxicating substance, as did Gable. I recall Gable exclaiming that Warriena just kept drinking, I havent gone back and read the trial tweets but was there any evidence that he continually plied her with drinks? In the absence of evidence to the contrary, she could has just as easily been the one pouring and consuming the drinks. Gable was also allegedly intoxicated (albeit he wasn't tested until some time after), it's likely his reasoning was also impaired. Neither party owed the other a duty of care of particular significance. A reasonable person could not expect that isolating someone on a balcony would be dangerous. Upsetting? Yes, but it's only dangerous if the person locked out chooses to make it that way. She had numerous non dangerous options available to her to explore before making the drastic and almost certainly fatal decision to descend, yet she chose not to.

And as a segue, this is one of the reasons I am shocked that the Crown chose to proceed on the indictment of murder. Depending on a number of factors, locking someone on a balcony could amount to deprivation of liberty and while it may not have resulted in a custodial sentence, it's still a very serious charge. While I still have my doubts as to whether a DoL indictment would have been successful, in my opinion it was far more likely than proving murder or manslaughter. The Crown elected to go with an all or nothing strategy when they could have had a better chance at proving culpability, albeit on a reduced charge. As they chose to proceed with murder, that option is now forever lost to them.

BBM - at the start of the recording, Tostee clearly states to chill out and have a drink twice. She replies not to test her as she is psycho drunk.

Next mention of drinking is at 1.32 am when he states he wants another drink.

Then at 1.53am: Male asks if she got the photos he sent her. “Our balcony photos. You are so much more drunker than me. I need to catch up.”

1.53.30am: Ruffling sounds. Drink poured. Male: “That is like vodka on the rocks. That is yours.

Presumably next presumed drink is at 2.03 when he says enjoy that, she says cheers, accompanied by a clinking sound (I believe). You can assume he has gotten her a drink. Two minutes later at 2.05 he again tells her to chill out, it is not cool here and that he will fix that **** - followed by pouring sounds.


Great post btw - really interesting

 

[Elde Fruit]

It's unmistakable

I'd appreciate a link if you have it.