Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #68

[Serenanicole]

So maybe Donoghue is misremembering? This is not uncommon and not a slight on Donoghues character.

Possibly he saw Wendy take a phone call that had something to do with her work (as a youth liaison officer) so he assumed it was about a youth.

Then with the passing of time and after now knowing WT went missing that day he incorrectly recalled it as a call about a missing child?

This case is so frustrating. There's such limited information and what information there is out there is often contradictory or misreported by journalists or well meaning witnesses.

I really fear this will never be solved.

Ok so as Wendy did hear about it at the tennis club, did someone at Benooran drive call her before the 000 call was made. It’s a small town, she was probably not just a well known and trusted police officer but perhaps had a lot of friends. People that would call upon her at once as a friend but also because she is a police officer.

 

[JBowie]

This case is so frustrating. There's such limited information and what information there is out there is often contradictory or misreported by journalists or well meaning witnesses.

I really fear this will never be solved.

Yep. As I've said before, I wish best of luck to the Coroner.

With the cast of bizarre characters, the passing parade of suspects, the false leads and the litany of apparent inconsistencies, it is like a bad TV soap opera -- except that it's serious.

 

[LIBPOP]

Richard Donoghue made three statements to the police.

25th September 2014 - no mention of witnessing any call that Wendy Hudson might have taken at the tennis club
11th November 2015 - told the police that Wendy Hudson took a call about William
2nd Feb 2017 - told the police that Wendy took a call "that made him think a child was missing"

View attachment 337697

Did William Tyrrell disappear earlier than reported? Why CCTV could prove crucial | Daily Mail Online

Surely if if was true that Wendy was advised of William’s disappearance before the 000 call this would have come to light earlier. She wouldn’t have had any reason to keep this a secret, and would have material significance to the search/Police dealing with the disappearance? This seems to be a mix of memories coming together in a bit of a confused fashion. IMO.

 

[LIBPOP]

Richard Donoghue made three statements to the police.

25th September 2014 - no mention of witnessing any call that Wendy Hudson might have taken at the tennis club
11th November 2015 - told the police that Wendy Hudson took a call about William
2nd Feb 2017 - told the police that Wendy took a call "that made him think a child was missing"

View attachment 337697

Did William Tyrrell disappear earlier than reported? Why CCTV could prove crucial | Daily Mail Online

Surely if if was true that Wendy was advised of William’s disappearance before the 000 call this would have come to light earlier. She wouldn’t have had any reason to keep this a secret, and would have material significance to the search/Police dealing with the disappearance? This seems to be a mix of memories coming together in a bit of a confused fashion. IMO.

 

[drsleuth]

I believe, he was rather given away than had a fatal accident or something like that. Therefore the FM was able to keep her contenance so very well, whereas FD cried during his hectic searches for little W. MOO

What makes you think he was "given away?"

 

[drsleuth]

"Senior Constable Wendy Hudson had been on her rostered day off at the Kendall Tennis Club when she heard about the missing boy and joined the search with her two teenage sons.

Sen Const Hudson managed to speak with William’s sister about whether the boy had hiding places.

“I wasn’t tough with here, but I had an opportunity to speak to her,” Hudson said.

“There were no hiding places.”

Asked by Mr Craddock if the foster father and foster grandmother’s vehicles had been searched, she said, “not be me”.

https://www.news.com.au/national/co...t/news-story/d0e0d3664d113387adef9083d094040f

Someone must of called Wendy at the tennis club to tell her about WT.

In the podcast it says Wendy was off duty but went anyway to see if she could help.

If she was off duty, playing tennis then how did she hear about WT. It wasn't over her police radio if she's at the tennis club. Someone must of called her mobile.

Wendy received a phone call by a by AK ( her sister ) around midday while at the tennis club re a missing boy in Kendall. Wendy than immediately phoned Rowley , than went to Benaroon drive with her two sons, she arrived @ 12:45

In the afternoon Wendy was tasked ( by Inspector Fehon ) to retrieve the CCTV footage from the tennis club, which she had to remove & take to an expert to view.

All from Wendy's evidence at the inquest.

 

[SouthAussie]

So maybe Donoghue is misremembering? This is not uncommon and not a slight on Donoghues character.

Possibly he saw Wendy take a phone call that had something to do with her work (as a youth liaison officer) so he assumed it was about a youth.

Then with the passing of time and after now knowing WT went missing that day he incorrectly recalled it as a call about a missing child?

This case is so frustrating. There's such limited information and what information there is out there is often contradictory or misreported by journalists or well meaning witnesses.

I really fear this will never be solved.

I think it is probable that the CCTV time was erratic.
The detective said it was 9 mins slow. But when was that CCTV time checked, against real time?

It was sometime after Richard Donoghue made his first statement where he said he went home, had a cuppa, and then saw FD at about 10:45am searching and calling for William.

What made him waver about his original (and likely most accurate) statement is:

"If what Detective Roberts has told me about the time difference is correct ..... "
Mr Donoghue later saw a man in his yard on Benaroon Drive - who was William's foster father - and that had influenced his belief that he had left the tennis club later than the time recorded on the CCTV cameras.
Did William Tyrrell disappear earlier than reported? Why CCTV could prove crucial | Daily Mail Online


It seems highly improbable to me that all of the people who saw and heard FD calling for William that morning got their times wrong.

Was CCTV time adjustment (or non-adjustment) for daylight savings starting and stopping taken into account?
Did the CCTV auto adjust its time, or did it have to be manually done?
Power outages ... do they affect the CCTV time?
Erratic connectivity in that area ... did that affect the CCTV time?
Just how well did that CCTV clock keep time?

Richard Donoghue was never called to the inquest, so perhaps the police got that little riddle sorted out and it satisfied the Coroner in the police brief. imo

 

[Couldbe]

Dr Sleuth just wondering if they viewed (at Inquest) any footage from body-cam worn by LE officer Rowley, and did you notice what colour shirt/top FFC and MFC were wearing in that footage?

 

[drsleuth]

Dr Sleuth just wondering if they viewed (at Inquest) any footage from body-cam worn by LE officer Rowley, and did you notice what colour shirt/top FFFC and FMFC were wearing in that footage?

We did not view any police body worn camera vision ( not in open court anyway ) that I re-call.

 

[Couldbe]

We did not view any police body worn camera vision ( not in open court anyway ) that I re-call.

Thank you Dr Sleuth ........ that is that then.

 

[drsleuth]

Thank you Dr Sleuth ........ that is that then.

What is that then??

 

[interested64]

PS has been developing memory problems--I'd want to know when he first said he heard the children playing that day. But also, and this could apply to both PS and JW, people remember what they expect to remember. When you know there were children out playing, it's easy to think you remember hearing them.

However--rather than think everyone's lying, deaf, confused or deceived, I find it easier to suppose William fell down a drain, perhaps the one that was barely inspected because cobwebs appeared undisturbed.....
Or the roof cavity that seemed undisturbed imo

 

[sleepinoz]

NSW Didn't start using Body Cams until 2018.

In 2018 the NSW State Government officially rolled out the use of body worn video (BWV) cameras across NSW by members of the NSW Police Force.

NSW Police Body Worn Video Cameras: When, Where, Why?

 

[Couldbe]

What is that then??

I just mean I cannot know that answer to my query if LE officer Rowley's body-cam footage was viewed at the Inquest. Just that LE body-cam footage is always very useful in examining.
Thank you for info.

 

[interested64]

So maybe Donoghue is misremembering? This is not uncommon and not a slight on Donoghues character.

Possibly he saw Wendy take a phone call that had something to do with her work (as a youth liaison officer) so he assumed it was about a youth.

Then with the passing of time and after now knowing WT went missing that day he incorrectly recalled it as a call about a missing child?

This case is so frustrating. There's such limited information and what information there is out there is often contradictory or misreported by journalists or well meaning witnesses.

I really fear this will never be solved.

Yes and imo everything can be turned so the truth will have to be positive evidence..not may have could have should have etc the fact that memories can be misplaced and re invented give not much hope at all

 

[JLZ]

I think it is probable that the CCTV time was erratic.
The detective said it was 9 mins slow. But when was that CCTV time checked, against real time?

It was sometime after Richard Donoghue made his first statement where he said he went home, had a cuppa, and then saw FD at about 10:45am searching and calling for William.

What made him waver about his original (and likely most accurate) statement is:

"If what Detective Roberts has told me about the time difference is correct ..... "
Mr Donoghue later saw a man in his yard on Benaroon Drive - who was William's foster father - and that had influenced his belief that he had left the tennis club later than the time recorded on the CCTV cameras.
Did William Tyrrell disappear earlier than reported? Why CCTV could prove crucial | Daily Mail Online


It seems highly improbable to me that all of the people who saw and heard FD calling for William that morning got their times wrong.

Was CCTV time adjustment (or non-adjustment) for daylight savings starting and stopping taken into account?
Did the CCTV auto adjust its time, or did it have to be manually done?
Power outages ... do they affect the CCTV time?
Erratic connectivity in that area ... did that affect the CCTV time?
Just how well did that CCTV clock keep time?

Richard Donoghue was never called to the inquest, so perhaps the police got that little riddle sorted out and it satisfied the Coroner in the police brief. imo

I don't think this is a CCTV issue at all. Whether Richard Donoghue left the tennis centre around 10:15 as he thought, or around 9:32 - 9:34 as the CCTV indicated, he didn't see Wendy receive the phone call about William and leave the club as a consequence because the call didn't come until around noon. It looks like his memory has been contaminated from hearing afterwards that Wendy got a call about William at the tennis club. He might have seen Wendy take a call of that nature on another day (hence the question about the Johns River people?) If you want to take a tricky angle you might say that he was up to something that morning and decided to use Wendy's call, which he assumed came around 10:15, as an alibi that he was still at the tennis club. Or he's inserting himself in the story to make himself a bit more interesting, like Chapman. But I think he's just wrong. Memory is like that.

 

[JLZ]

Ok so as Wendy did hear about it at the tennis club, did someone at Benooran drive call her before the 000 call was made. It’s a small town, she was probably not just a well known and trusted police officer but perhaps had a lot of friends. People that would call upon her at once as a friend but also because she is a police officer.

You'd be supposing then that Wendy had an early call from Benaroon Drive that William was missing--this between say 9:30 and 10:15--left the tennis club, as did Mr Donoghue, probably didn't attend Benaroon Drive since nobody saw her there at that time, but whatever, then went back to the tennis club, where she received a call around noon from her sister to say that William was missing, and then went to Benaroon Drive?

 

[bearbear]

if Wendy took a phone call about William missing in the time that Donahue had said in his last statement then this is before the time of the 000 call.
Who would have called her?

maybe fgm in a panic because she was supposed to be watching them? and if ffc had already taken her drive without telling her (with william in the car)? if that scenario happened?

 

[JLZ]

maybe fgm in a panic because she was supposed to be watching them? and if ffc had already taken her drive without telling her (with william in the car)? if that scenario happened?

Let's see how that works. FFC says to FGM, "William is playing around there, L's out on the balcony, watch them, I'm going to take a shower." Because she would have had to give some reason for her absence to explain putting FGM in charge. FGM supervises L for a bit then goes to check on William. She can't find him because he's been taken in the car with FFC. She then looks for FFC and can't find her either. She doesn't notice the car is missing. She panics and calls Wendy. Surely she says both FFC and MFC are absent. FFC turns up with wet hair (to show she's been in the shower), "What? You've lost William?! Whatever will MFC say? What will everyone say? What's going to happen to you, they'll surely lock you up this time. I know, we'll say we were both here, they won't blame you." And Wendy, despite having left the tennis club because FGM told her William was missing, forgets all about that call.

Or how do you see that scenario playing out?

 

[katydid23]

For example, if a child witnessed or experienced violence when young by a particular person/s, and it became buried in their subconscious mind, witnessing or experiencing violence again by that same person/s can trigger the repressed memories to come to the surface again without any mentoring or counselling from a third party.

True.
And yet, a 'false' memory can also pop up, being triggered by that same experience. Maybe an altercation took place between a child and their parent, and it triggered a 'false' memory of that prior incident in earlier circumstances.

I had an experience of false memories myself. During intensive counselling because of childhood sexual abuse, I uncovered supposed repressed memories of abuse by another family member too. But it turned out, after further investigation, those 'memories' were impossible to have happened in reality. It is a very odd experience to 'recover' those popped up memories that feel very real---then to find they are not possible because of actual timelines and geographical locations.