Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #68

[Travelling Wilbury]

Initial search efforts
Hundreds of police, members of State Emergency Services, Rural Fire Service and members of the community searched day and night for Tyrrell. Specialist police, including the sex crimes squad from Strike Force became involved. Motorcycles and helicopters were brought in to search. Two hundred volunteers searched overnight, hundreds of people combed rugged terrain around the home and police divers searched waterways and dams. The police searched every house in the estate that surrounds Benaroon Drive several times.
The police detection dogs were brought in and they managed to detect Tyrrell's scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard.[12]"Strike Force Rosann" was established with specially trained investigators from the State Crime Command who are experienced in the unexplained disappearance of young children. They supported the police, other emergency services workers and members of the public involved in the search. After five days, police said they were unable to come up with any leads.[13]

Disappearance of William Tyrrell - Wikipedia

I don't know why anyone would think that the police officers were not getting their hands dirty and searching from the start of this case.

The initial search was certainly a good combined effort and a quick response from emergency services.
But that search may only be relevant if the current line of enquiry is wrong- they have suggested an accident and WT moved to elsewhere. This still is yet to be proven (along with a lot of other things), but if it eventuates that the fosters have hidden the events of that day it’ll go down as one of the darkest acts of anyone in this country. This is only a suggestion if that scenario eventuates IMO

 

[Warshawski]

It would be interesting to observe, if we were all dropped in Kendall tomorrow, where each of us would start searching. Where would you start Limaes?

that’s an interesting question Blues. Are we talking Now or when it first happened ?

I understand the initial 72 hrs to be critical as so much potential evidence can change in that time, be it memory, witnesses, clear scent & prints, disturbed surroundings, weather etc.

IMO, this is where it all went horribly wrong. I won’t bore you with my plan but perhaps if was in Sydney ( or a major city), it may’ve been different. And I think the way the Cleo Smith disappearance was handled was an indication that Police also feel that may be the case.

What a challenge to have to start over after Many Years ! I’m good with the latest search areas.
But where was the place that FA was supposed to have said had a ‘dead body’ smell ?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...-interest-spoke-of-bad-smell-in-bush/12049322

 

[Doesitmakesense]

The initial search was certainly a good combined effort and a quick response from emergency services.
But that search may only be relevant if the current line of enquiry is wrong- they have suggested an accident and WT moved to elsewhere. This still is yet to be proven (along with a lot of other things), but if it eventuates that the fosters have hidden the events of that day it’ll go down as one of the darkest acts of anyone in this country. This is only a suggestion if that scenario eventuates IMO

I think the WT had an accident theory was put out their as bait for the POI, easier for the POI to admit to an accident and soften the parameters of what has happened IMO

 

[sleepinoz]

Sorry Dr, I can’t as I wasn’t with him. But I’m sure it’s documented somewhere if you care to look it up.

I've looked it up and he's the only person that said he has searched, not that I don't believe him - but where did he search, when did he search (when he wasn't incarcerated) - if it was in the Kendall area I'm sure someone would have reported it. Any confirmation would be appreciated.

 

[drsleuth]

Sorry Dr, I can’t as I wasn’t with him. But I’m sure it’s documented somewhere if you care to look it up.

Nothing was presented at the inquest about him searching.

I have "cared to look it up " & can't find anything .

Doesn't matter to me if he searched or not, but if people are going to try picking apart, that the FFC / MFC did not search , seems only fair to ask the same questions of the Bio family, doesn't it??

 

[Warshawski]

When our 6 year old son went missing, both my husband and I were in separate vehicles looking for him.

When my husband rang the police, they said to meet them at our house which my husband did while I kept looking.

The police ordered me back home. Of course, I agreed to come back home but said after I answered their questions I want to go back out and look and they said absolutely not. This was in Victoria 7 years ago. Parents apparently are told to stay home.

When I arrived home my son praise Jesus had just been found.

Shockingly, he'd seen my husband's car but avoided him because he thought he'd be in trouble.

He was trying to come home without being seen by us, when he saw police and police cars and went to take off figuring he was in REALLY big trouble now. Luckily my husband saw him.

It shocked me because our son had always been taught to trust police, they are our friends and in the past our son had always voluntarily gone up to police to say hi and ask questions.

Super important to teach kids that they won't be in trouble if they are lost.

What a blessing for you all

Unfortunately kids do this stuff - they think it’s funny to hide & now they’re finally winning the game!

And because they’re still in their cognitive development stages, they certainly don’t act in terms of what may be ‘rational’ to us. Your little one displayed that struggle so clearly.

I think I’ve told previously of my grandson ( prob also around 6) going missing in the blink of an eye while playing with a few years older little girl (foster child ) in front of their unit.

It was the scariest & most unfathomable situation. We called, we searched the unit, we interrogated the other child, back & forth, over & over, we searched all around, we searched their play things (apparently not well enough!) because when I said OK, that’s it I’m now calling the Police, there was a little movement in one of the big cardboard boxes they’d been building with! Although I’d checked that Box - apparently not well enough!

Sadly, William’s situation is / was different. There’s no happy ending.

 

[Shadow@light]

William's Inquest which was reported by Dr Sleuth and fellow Websleuths was informative and showed how situation was being handled. I thank you for it.
Sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction, looking at Cleo case is one of them.
Both parents bio and foster looked for William, and they never stopped, but I hope this case is cracked And William found and alive.
Remembering earlier cases such a the little school girl from Roma, in 1990's the perps were not family but were one of the searchers.

 

[Warshawski]

I think the WT had an accident theory was put out their as bait for the POI, easier for the POI to admit to an accident and soften the parameters of what has happened IMO

Certainly the ‘bait’ suggestion resonates with me (my a young grandson tells me ‘ but Nanna, I won’t catch anything if I don’t have the right lure !)

Now I’ll go out on a limb by suggesting that Bait may be attractive to anyone, not necessarily the currently suggested POI ( imo, why would she not be a Person Of Interest since she is last surviving adult to have seen him).

If there was an ‘action’ by anyone that led to his disappearance, this may give them, as you say DIMS, some softer parameters.

 

[Warshawski]

I've looked it up and he's the only person that said he has searched, not that I don't believe him - but where did he search, when did he search (when he wasn't incarcerated) - if it was in the Kendall area I'm sure someone would have reported it. Any confirmation would be appreciated.

With all due respect Sleep, he clearly didn’t find William so imo it’s probably not worth the effort to search. Personally I don’t understand why the question was posed. IMO, there are umpteen MSM articles about various people searching, both foster & bio-dad included, but sadly, it’s all been to no avail. My heart breaks.

 

[Warshawski]

Nothing was presented at the inquest about him searching.

I have "cared to look it up " & can't find anything .

Doesn't matter to me if he searched or not, but if people are going to try picking apart, that the FFC / MFC did not search , seems only fair to ask the same questions of the Bio family, doesn't it??

Oh, did I miss something ? I’ve not seen anyone or anything to suggest that the FFP ( Male or Female) did not search.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh, did I miss something ? I’ve not seen anyone or anything to suggest that the FFP ( Male or Female) did not search.

.
Yes, I think perhaps the train of conversation was missed. This post is how this conversation started .... post #441 of this thread.

YES! I would be too and I'd still be out physically searching.

IIRC the FCs left Kendall on the 19th September 2014. I haven't read anywhere that they have continued to search themselves since that day.

JMO

 

[sleepinoz]

With all due respect Sleep, he clearly didn’t find William so imo it’s probably not worth the effort to search. Personally I don’t understand why the question was posed. IMO, there are umpteen MSM articles about various people searching, both foster & bio-dad included, but sadly, it’s all been to no avail. My heart breaks.

With all due respect Warshawski - you did state that he was out there searching - I was just asking where and when.

yep, bio-Dad was out there. I’m sure you’ll have those links Dr as it was discussed early on WS. But here’s one: https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...w/news-story/09530a9bfb162dae08bd269925b86b59

RSBM
.

I might add that the link you quoted states:

"While William’s dad helped in the initial bush searches"

He himself refutes this in the below link:

When William disappeared, the birth father said he had tried to see if he could join the search effort with Mid North Coast police “but was instructed it was best if I stayed away”.

https://www.news.com.au/national/co...d/news-story/7375dfc0d889d41a6159312d205a8340

So forgive me for believing that you had definite information on this subject.

 

[Warshawski]

Warshawski, in saying “If you do something ‘right’ don’t you get the desired answer / outcome ?”, this desired outcome appears to have been confounded when LE have been lied to in their quest.

I feel the investigation got derailed at the very beginning, due to various factors, resulting in the ‘correct’ processes not being followed by the initial investigation team.
IMO, this is inherent of the difficulties facing small town / country cops (many of whom are serving their initial time on the promotion ladder).
I grew up in such a town. The local cop / cops were one of us. He would’ve had to SEE you shoot the person to even entertain the idea that you might be responsible - and even then he’d look for an alternative ! Ok, a little embellishment, but the essence is there & I think perhaps that comrade spirit let William down.

 

[Warshawski]

William's Inquest which was reported by Dr Sleuth and fellow Websleuths was informative and showed how situation was being handled. I thank you for it.
Sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction, looking at Cleo case is one of them.
Both parents bio and foster looked for William, and they never stopped, but I hope this case is cracked And William found and alive.
Remembering earlier cases such a the little school girl from Roma, in 1990's the perps were not family but were one of the searchers.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news...t/news-story/7dfde182baf117f29476a60fb3cd2174

Another appalling example of the scum that walk around us - he should’ve never been allowed another chance.

These people are damaged & brazen.

Brett Cowen calmly murdered Daniel & went home to his wife & children!

I will suggest that as a society we don’t do much to prevent this, but that’s a whole different round table discussion

I grew up in western Qld & went to boarding school in Roma for many years. This was far too close to home, but the reality is that ‘distance’ doesn’t dull the senses or lesson the reaction.
It appalls me that ‘violence’ and ‘ disrespect/disregard’ have been allowed to creep into and find an acceptable place in our society. Unfortunately nothing in Tuesday’s Budget spoke to that.

 

[Warshawski]

We do ALL want it solved with accuracy.

Other POI's haven't been discounted by the Coroner AFAWK only MSM.

And actually, 'all news' is what we can, and should, go off not just the 'new news' - after all haven't some been saying it's good to go over old news to get new opinions. So might as well go over it all if anyone feels it's necessary. IMO.

I’m with you Sleep, I don’t know who’s IN & who’s OUT these days, but possibly that’s some of the strategy.

lol on going over it all - {]¥*& - I don’t have any desire to attempt the Spreadsheet that the Investigation Team have / are possibly still trying to compile !

Having said that, I do think there certainly will be things from the past that need to be more closely examined - the Past is when it happened - new things will be released but are we just here to chat about the latest news article or are we here to try to add value to the investigation?

Maybe that’s where I’m going wrong. Maybe I should just bow out & do it alone.

cheers all.

 

[Warshawski]

.
Yes, I think perhaps the train of conversation was missed. This post is how this conversation started .... post #441 of this thread.

Thanks SA, I did miss that. For some strange reason ( and I’ve asked this previously) I see ‘posts’ in ‘’responses ’ that don’t appear in my conversation trail earlier)

However, this is the ‘tit for tat’ stuff that I dislike, particularly when I say I want healthy debate in trying to find an answer for William.

I don’t actually care how long someone searched for, nor where they searched - I care about the ‘actions’ contained in evidence, which is what someone has said they did / has been determined to have done. No matter who this person is.

Maybe I’m not doing well with my articulation, but I wish we could all please embrace a respectful debate in consideration of everyone’s individual thoughts & opinions.

 

[bearbear]

The grieving dad used a shovel to search the bushland where his son disappeared.
"I've been out looking for you with a shovel digging in bushland… I know there's no point," he shared.
“I know exactly what’s happened," William Tyrrell's grandmother tells investigators to stop their search

 

[deugirtni]

..... Doesn't matter to me if he searched or not, but if people are going to try picking apart, that the FFC / MFC did not search , seems only fair to ask the same questions of the Bio family, doesn't it??

Other than...

• we have read the bios were specifically told by police NOT to search...
  
• the bios' economic stature is such that there was likely not a lot of funds available to them for traveling and perhaps lodging hours away to participate in searching (based on bio dad having to find a source of funding to enable his attendance at Taree, IIRC)..
  
• the bios are not even familiar with the area in which W disappeared..
  
• the bios had zero to do with W being in that location to begin with...
  
• it was not under the bios' watch that the toddler 'disappeared'...
  
• I doubt if the bios have been given a clear picture of the exact circumstances surrounding W's disappearance (only known to fosters and LE, imho)..
  
• the missing child had been removed from the bios' home and care, long before W's disappearance..

I'm not sure why anyone would expect the bios should or would be involved in searching, unlike the people who were actually responsible for his care and control at the time of disappearance, and even moreso since it was not the fosters' own child they were tasked with, and reimbursed for, caring for. Why would it be thought to only be fair that the bios even be brought into the discussion involving searching, unless to try to remove responsibility from the caretakers and make the bios equally responsible for the boy's disappearance, when clearly they had no control over the boy at that time? Doesn't seem fair to me at all. imo.

 

[MissMarpleAU]

If she was driving out to that creek area to bury a shirt, it would have to be pretty stained with blood for her to do that. That material is not bloody. And I do think it would be a pretty big stretch to say that they only found the piece of the shirt that was clean that day. The rest of the shirt would be nearby. And they went through ALL of the dirt anywhere near where they found that red material. JMO

Yes although even one small spot of blood could make her want to discard it IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Other than...

• we have read the bios were specifically told by police NOT to search...
  
• the bios' economic stature is such that there was likely not a lot of funds available to them for traveling and perhaps lodging hours away to participate in searching (based on bio dad having to find a source of funding to enable his attendance at Taree, IIRC)..
  
• the bios are not even familiar with the area in which W disappeared..
  
• the bios had zero to do with W being in that location to begin with...
  
• it was not under the bios' watch that the toddler 'disappeared'...
  
• I doubt if the bios have been given a clear picture of the exact circumstances surrounding W's disappearance (only known to fosters and LE, imho)..
  
• the missing child had been removed from the bios' home and care, long before W's disappearance..

I'm not sure why anyone would expect the bios should or would be involved in searching, unlike the people who were actually responsible for his care and control at the time of disappearance, and even moreso since it was not the fosters' own child they were tasked with, and reimbursed for, caring for. Why would it be thought to only be fair that the bios even be brought into the discussion involving searching, unless to try to remove responsibility from the caretakers and make the bios equally responsible for the boy's disappearance, when clearly they had no control over the boy at that time? Doesn't seem fair to me at all. imo.

As Awakening has explained (from when their own child was lost), the parents are instructed to not go out searching.

There are 4 parents involved in this matter. The two who provided William with an at-risk environment, and the two who then took him in and provided for him under FACS (and general society's) rules.

To be making comments about what the FF didn't do - because they were not allowed - completely negates the fact that William would not have even been in Kendall if he had never had to be removed from his first home.
Neither of the children would have been in Kendall, if they both didn't have to be removed from their first home. Neither of them would have had to experience this terrible situation of William going missing.

(I am not going to re-hash again all the steps that FACS take, to assist parents to up their game, prior to removing their children. I think the members who have followed here for a long time are quite aware of how it all works, due to previous research.)

There are some who can see the entire timeline of William's short life, and how it played into him being in Kendall on that fateful day. (And I think the BD is one of these people, judging by some of the comments he has made about himself.)