Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[Awakening]

Do LE really get a choice in the dates? IIRC earlier it was stated it was pushed out due to the FC wanting it heard over multiple days, and trying to find availability for it to be heard

I think if there was any sense of urgency we wouldn't be waiting until next year.

JMO, but I've got a sinking feeling that there's very little evidence against the fosters. Just doesn't feel like they are close to cracking the case but more like shaking the tree to see what might fall out.

 

[SleepyJoe]

Yes l wonder the same if Jubelin was there from the start.

I doubt it LolaAngelina. Jubelin had clearly lost his objectivity and got too close to the fosters, as demonstrated by his gob-smacking and unprofessional appearance on Fordham's radio show to defend the FFC when it became known she was the sole current POI. It's not possible to solve homicides if you get close to the last people to see a victim alive and wear blinkers. All IMO.

'She's a very decent human being': Former detective Gary Jubelin stands up for foster mother

The former chief detective in the William Tyrrell case has defended the way it was handled amid new revelations. Police sources have told Ben Fordham the sole person of interest is William’s foster mother, who strongly denies any involvement. Officers have recently begun extensive searches on...

www.2gb.com

 

[seekingjustice**]

Police drop charges against Friendlyjordies producer Kristo Langker

Mr Langker was accused of stalking or intimidating former deputy premier John Barilaro, which he denied and indicated he would defend in court vigorously.

www.smh.com.au

Unfortunately, highly questionable charges can be laid, it does happen, especially, in high profile cases, it can be quite humiliating for all concerned.

If the police have sufficient evidence against the FPs, that they were directly involved in WT’s disappearance, they would’ve been arrested, imo. There’s something amiss but I can’t put my finger on it.

I can understand those who believe the FPs are guilty and are relieved that it appears the wheels of justice are turning, but I don’t feel confident the investigators are close to solving this case. JMO

I wonder if the police are waiting on the outcome of the court hearing regarding the Foster parents giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime commission.

"The foster mother of missing child William Tyrrell provided a NSW Crime Commission hearing about the boy’s disappearance with false or misleading information, police have alleged. The woman – understood to be Tyrrell’s foster mother – will have her matter heard at Sydney’s Downing Centre local court on 24 May.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother charged with giving misleading evidence

The foster mother of Tyrrell, who disappeared in northern NSW in 2014, was charged with giving false or misleading evidence to state’s crime commission

www.theguardian.com

 

[SleepyJoe]

We don't yet know what the alleged lying charges are about, nor why they were in front of the Crime Commission.

No, we don't know for certain, but we do know that these charges for lying were brought by detectives from the Unsolved Homicide squad, including a Detective on SFR (at least for the MFC).

"Court documents seen by Daily Mail Australia reveal the foster father was charged by Detective Sergeant Andrew Lonergan and Detective Sergeant Trent Power from the Unsolved Homicide team, part of NSW Police State Crime Command.

Det Sgt Lonergan is a senior detective in the strike force investigating the disappearance of William Tyrrell in 2014."

William Tyrrell's foster dad lengthy court trial

William Tyrrell's foster dad to face lengthy two day-hearing for allegedly lying in a secret NSW Crime Commission hearing after 'unsolved homicide' squad charged him in January.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And as just posted above by @seekingjustice** it has been reported that the FFC lied to a NSW CC hearing held about William’s disappearance.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother charged with giving misleading evidence

The foster mother of Tyrrell, who disappeared in northern NSW in 2014, was charged with giving false or misleading evidence to state’s crime commission

www.theguardian.com

I think we can logically deduce that there is some connection between these lying charges to NSW CC (which is a very serious offence punishable by imprisonment) and William’s disappearance.

 

[katydid23]

Police don't lay charges every time there is an allegation though and I don't think they are going through a charade in such a high profile case IMO.

Why wouldn't they? Didn't they do so with BS? Same high profile case and they went through a highly publicised charade which ruined his life.

 

[katydid23]

No, we don't know for certain, but we do know that these charges for lying were brought by detectives from the Unsolved Homicide squad, including a Detective on SFR (at least for the MFC).

"Court documents seen by Daily Mail Australia reveal the foster father was charged by Detective Sergeant Andrew Lonergan and Detective Sergeant Trent Power from the Unsolved Homicide team, part of NSW Police State Crime Command.

Det Sgt Lonergan is a senior detective in the strike force investigating the disappearance of William Tyrrell in 2014."

William Tyrrell's foster dad lengthy court trial

William Tyrrell's foster dad to face lengthy two day-hearing for allegedly lying in a secret NSW Crime Commission hearing after 'unsolved homicide' squad charged him in January.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And as just posted above by @seekingjustice** it has been reported that the FFC lied to a NSW CC hearing held about William’s disappearance.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother charged with giving misleading evidence

The foster mother of Tyrrell, who disappeared in northern NSW in 2014, was charged with giving false or misleading evidence to state’s crime commission

www.theguardian.com

I think we can logically deduce that there is some connection between these lying charges to NSW CC (which is a very serious offence punishable by imprisonment) and William’s disappearance.

What if they say that the 'false or misleading' information was her recollection of the 2 cars parked on the street that morning?

Will that change or help this case in any way?

 

[katydid23]

Police drop charges against Friendlyjordies producer Kristo Langker

Mr Langker was accused of stalking or intimidating former deputy premier John Barilaro, which he denied and indicated he would defend in court vigorously.

www.smh.com.au

Unfortunately, highly questionable charges can be laid, it does happen, especially, in high profile cases, it can be quite humiliating for all concerned.

If the police have sufficient evidence against the FPs, that they were directly involved in WT’s disappearance, they would’ve been arrested, imo. There’s something amiss but I can’t put my finger on it.

I can understand those who believe the FPs are guilty and are relieved that it appears the wheels of justice are turning, but I don’t feel confident the investigators are close to solving this case. JMO

“It is very sobering to reflect that without Kristo filming the entire event, and having the resources to mount a solid legal defence, he could well have a conviction against his name as a stalker,” Mr Davis said.

The lawyer described the offence as “utterly trivial” and said it was shocking that Mr Langker was arrested in the way he was.

Mr Langker will now consider taking civil action against the police."


So in the ^^^above case, it seems that the police were bullying this defendant and made these exaggerated accusations into serious charges of stalking and intimidation. They had to drop the charges when videos of the alleged 'crimes' surfaced and showed he did not threaten or stalk the politician.

He merely walked past him and spoke to him out loud.

I have a feeling that the allegations against the foster parents, of them stalking and intimidating their foster child, may be of a similar nature. I think they may be exaggerated and set forth as a way to try and rattle them, in order to get a confession of some kind. JMO

 

[seekingjustice**]

What if they say that the 'false or misleading' information was her recollection of the 2 cars parked on the street that morning?

Will that change or help this case in any way?

Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence, if they can prove she lied about the cars. It would definitely help the case IMO as the task force would be highly confident that they are on the right track.

 

[k-mac]

I wonder if the police are waiting on the outcome of the court hearing regarding the Foster parents giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime commission.

"The foster mother of missing child William Tyrrell provided a NSW Crime Commission hearing about the boy’s disappearance with false or misleading information, police have alleged. The woman – understood to be Tyrrell’s foster mother – will have her matter heard at Sydney’s Downing Centre local court on 24 May.

William Tyrrell’s foster mother charged with giving misleading evidence

The foster mother of Tyrrell, who disappeared in northern NSW in 2014, was charged with giving false or misleading evidence to state’s crime commission

www.theguardian.com

Yes I agree
There is no sense of urgency now.
LE have no reason to rush.
They were looking for Williams body late last year.....
He didn't turn up and I think they are preparing for a no body case.

The more fruit that lands on the ground from shaking trees obviously the better.

moo

 

[LolaAngelina]

Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence, if they can prove she lied about the cars. It would definitely help the case IMO as the task force would be highly confident that they are on the right track.

Are they charged with perverting the course of justice?

 

[k-mac]

I definitely agree that raising a mental health defence is a tacit admission of guilt - kind of like hedging your bets.

What greatly concerns me is where was FACS in all of this? Surely FACS was monitoring care of LT by the FCs and had a duty of care to ensure that the FCs were mentally well enough to be tasked with and PAID by the state to take care of someone else's child? If the FFC was mentally ill enough that she is using it as an excuse to allegedly assault a child, why was the child with her at all?

Children are vulnerable and defenceless. It is disgusting to me that anyone would try to justify and receive a lesser penalty for assaulting a child due to mental illness. I'm sorry, there is no excuse for assaulting a child. None. If she was not mentally well, she should have put up her hand and sought help to ensure she could continue to care for the children appropriately. It seems like she could obviously afford to pay for help (like she can afford these high profile lawyers) or should have seen or GP, or in an emergency called Lifeline or the Parent Helpline if she felt the child was at risk due to her mental state. If she wasn't prepared to go and get help then she should have informed FACS and asked for the children to be placed in another family. Either way, the fact that an alleged assault occurred and she is raising the mental health defence shows a disturbing lack of insight on her behalf.

I'll say it again - there is NO EXCUSE for assaulting a child. The onus is on adults to get help and control themselves. Plenty of adults who care for children suffer with mental illness and do not use this as an excuse to assault those children in their care. We have tolerated second class treatment of children for far too long in this country.

NO EXCUSE. NOT EVER.

AGREE 100% SJ
This Mental health assessment is a catch 22 conundrum for FFC.

IMO it is not the actions of an innocent, nothing to see here defence.

sketchy or alarming....neither is positive for her cause.

moo

 

[SleepyJoe]

Are they charged with perverting the course of justice?

No, they are charged with lying to the NSWCC, which could colloquially be referred to as "perverting the course of justice". I don't think the poster intended to mean that this was the technical term for the charges.

 

[katydid23]

Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence, if they can prove she lied about the cars. It would definitely help the case IMO as the task force would be highly confident that they are on the right track.

How would they ever prove she lied though? What if she was mistaken or misremembered?

There was an article posted here many times, about what happens to people during highly stressed incidents, like a missing child, and how the memory plays tricks on people when they are under emotional pressure to remember everything about that event.

They often 'misremember' or mix up memories from previous days, when under intense emotional stress.

There would be no credible way to label that as 'perverting the course of justice.' Look at all the other inconsistent stories from the neighbours and other witnesses, describing cars they saw or heard or children they saw or didn't see. Are they lying or just mistaken?

 

[SleepyJoe]

How would they ever prove she lied though? What if she was mistaken or misremembered?

There was an article posted here many times, about what happens to people during highly stressed incidents, like a missing child, and how the memory plays tricks on people when they are under emotional pressure to remember everything about that event.

They often 'misremember' or mix up memories from previous days, when under intense emotional stress.

There would be no credible way to label that as 'perverting the course of justice.' Look at all the other inconsistent stories from the neighbours and other witnesses, describing cars they saw or heard or children they saw or didn't see. Are they lying or just mistaken?

Which is why I highly doubt the charges are related to her account about the cars. IMO, it would have to be a lie that NSW Police can prove, with evidence.

 

[seekingjustice**]

How would they ever prove she lied though? What if she was mistaken or misremembered?

There was an article posted here many times, about what happens to people during highly stressed incidents, like a missing child, and how the memory plays tricks on people when they are under emotional pressure to remember everything about that event.

They often 'misremember' or mix up memories from previous days, when under intense emotional stress.

There would be no credible way to label that as 'perverting the course of justice.' Look at all the other inconsistent stories from the neighbours and other witnesses, describing cars they saw or heard or children they saw or didn't see. Are they lying or just mistaken?

Possibly covert listening devices, if they said that they can prove it.

 

[drsleuth]

Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence, if they can prove she lied about the cars. It would definitely help the case IMO as the task force would be highly confident that they are on the right track.

How would they prove that she lied about the cars?, just because no one else has come forward, does not mean that the cars were not there IMO.

Det Beacroft even said about AMS, that she didn't go outside till after 08:10 so was unlikely to have seen the cars earlier than that time.

She also said she believed the Crabbs , when they said they heard a car turn around. But no one else other than the FFC & William's sister saw that car either, if it's the same one the Crabbs heard, if not, well there was another car that day than..........that also no one saw............

She also said the MCF left @ 08:55

She also said that the FFC did not identify the cars in her first statement, but identified them 4 days later

So much info given at the inquest really that doesn't get reported on in MSM

 

[katydid23]

Which is why I highly doubt the charges are related to her account about the cars. IMO, it would have to be a lie that NSW Police can prove, with evidence.

Imo, if they truly had solid evidence both fosterers LIED about something relevant that morning, and LE truly had proof that they both physically assaulted their foster child, and stalked and threatened her, they would both have been arrested already.

 

[SLouTh]

Who is alleging this? Its apparently in CO’s book but its not proven he did 2 drives.

@LolaAngelina can you please clarify this statement? Where in CO's book does it state this? Can you please supply the chapter and page number please?? I don't recall reading this...
TIA

 

[SLouTh]

So much info given at the inquest really that doesn't get reported on in MSM

That is why it is so important that people like you Doc, that were able to attend the inquest, can share information with the thread here at WS ..... It assists in clarifying information .....

 

[SLouTh]

She also said the MCF left @ 08:55

She also said that the FFC did not identify the cars in her first statement, but identified them 4 days later

BBM
Thanks for this info .... are you able to recall if that time of 08:55am was the corrected time from the Tennis Club CCTV or the time the MFC vehicle was captured???? Or if that time was from another source?

4 days later .... this is very different to published version that this occurred on the Sunday afternoon the 14th and also the FFC's recall in subsequent interviews, that it was the day that William went missing ....
As 4 days later is the Tuesday .....

TIA