Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[Wexford]

Apologies for quoting myself ..... I was just looking up some info in Jubes Book, I Catch Killers, and noticed that PS states that he saw those 2 cars parked there on Benaroon Drive two days before William went missing ....

From the Chapter "There's No Death That Is A Good Death" in I Catch Killers, by G Jubelin.


Interesting .....IMO...... That the 2 cars have been seen ..... and by someone else, bedsides FM .....

Someone living on that street, at the time, MAY, have had knowledge about them and have withheld it for some reason????

IMO and some speculation

I thought he claimed he saw them two days before but in a nearby street, not Benaroon in MSM before the book came out. I know MSM can be unreliable.
I'm not convinced those cars were there. I grew up in an area very similar to Kendall and it is still the same, very unusual for anyone visiting to park on the street as the houses are all set back from the road. Very noticeable if anyone does park on the street. I agree with SouthAussie it may have been a police tactic.

 

[JLZ]

I thought he claimed he saw them two days before but in a nearby street, not Benaroon in MSM before the book came out. I know MSM can be unreliable.
I'm not convinced those cars were there. I grew up in an area very similar to Kendall and it is still the same, very unusual for anyone visiting to park on the street as the houses are all set back from the road. Very noticeable if anyone does park on the street. I agree with SouthAussie it may have been a police tactic.

If it's a police tactic they haven't let the coroner in on it, because an expert witness gave evidence as to whether FFC's memory of the cars was a true or false memory. (Possibly false or distorted, but she couldn't ultimately say--Dr Helen Paterson, forensic psychology academic.)

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't know how many people have seen this situation over the past 24 hours (regarding assault against a 10 year old child by his mother).

It made me wonder about FM's assault charges. Considering the magistrate's comment about the severity.


A Gold Coast woman has lost custody of her children and been convicted of assault after smacking her son on the bottom with a spoon because he spent $600 on video games (on her credit card).
The prosecution said she confiscated the gaming console before grabbing her son and hitting him on the backside with a plastic spoon she’d retrieved from the kitchen.

The attack caused bruising on his body, the court was told.

Magistrate Mark Bamberry sympathised with the woman’s plight in handing down the non-custodial sentence.
“I accept this completely out of character,” he said. “I can understand why she’s done what she’s done.
But he said “society has moved on” from physically punishing children.

Mum’s lawyer speaks after she lost custody of son for smacking him with spoon

The lawyer of a Queensland woman who lost custody of her child for hitting him with a wooden spoon has spoken outside court - revealing what her next move will be.

7news.com.au

 

[Mauig’ma]

I don't know how many people have seen this situation over the past 24 hours (regarding assault against a 10 year old child by his mother).

It made me wonder about FM's assault charges. Considering the magistrate's comment about the severity.


A Gold Coast woman has lost custody of her children and been convicted of assault after smacking her son on the bottom with a spoon because he spent $600 on video games (on her credit card).
The prosecution said she confiscated the gaming console before grabbing her son and hitting him on the backside with a plastic spoon she’d retrieved from the kitchen.

The attack caused bruising on his body, the court was told.

Magistrate Mark Bamberry sympathised with the woman’s plight in handing down the non-custodial sentence.
“I accept this completely out of character,” he said. “I can understand why she’s done what she’s done.
But he said “society has moved on” from physically punishing children.

Mum’s lawyer speaks after she lost custody of son for smacking him with spoon

The lawyer of a Queensland woman who lost custody of her child for hitting him with a wooden spoon has spoken outside court - revealing what her next move will be.

7news.com.au

I don't know how many people have seen this situation over the past 24 hours (regarding assault against a 10 year old child by his mother).

It made me wonder about FM's assault charges. Considering the magistrate's comment about the severity.


A Gold Coast woman has lost custody of her children and been convicted of assault after smacking her son on the bottom with a spoon because he spent $600 on video games (on her credit card).
The prosecution said she confiscated the gaming console before grabbing her son and hitting him on the backside with a plastic spoon she’d retrieved from the kitchen.

The attack caused bruising on his body, the court was told.

Magistrate Mark Bamberry sympathised with the woman’s plight in handing down the non-custodial sentence.
“I accept this completely out of character,” he said. “I can understand why she’s done what she’s done.
But he said “society has moved on” from physically punishing children.

Mum’s lawyer speaks after she lost custody of son for smacking him with spoon

The lawyer of a Queensland woman who lost custody of her child for hitting him with a wooden spoon has spoken outside court - revealing what her next move will be.

7news.com.au

Imo it’s Not ok to leave marks or bruises on any child. I was a single parent of 4! kids and it wasn’t easy. But I never once laid a finger or in this case a spoon on any of my children. And trust me there were days I’d like to have. But I’m not that type of person and I won’t make excuses for people who have. Shame on that judge. Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

Imo it’s Not ok to leave marks or bruises on any child. I was a single parent of 4! kids and it wasn’t easy. But I never once laid a finger or in this case a spoon on any of my children. And trust me there were days I’d like to have. But I’m not that type of person and I won’t make excuses for people who have. Shame on that judge. Moo

I wasn't trying to excuse anything. I was just wondering about severity and cause of the FM's charges.

When I heard yesterday's case (about another person) on the news, the newscaster said this would be a polarising issue for many.

And I don't mean for the thread to get off track ... due to the polarising issue.

 

[SLouTh]

I thought he claimed he saw them two days before but in a nearby street, not Benaroon in MSM before the book came out. I know MSM can be unreliable.
I'm not convinced those cars were there. I grew up in an area very similar to Kendall and it is still the same, very unusual for anyone visiting to park on the street as the houses are all set back from the road. Very noticeable if anyone does park on the street. I agree with SouthAussie it may have been a police tactic.

So does that mean you don’t believe FM’s version of seeing 2 cars parked in the street?

If the cars were “made up” in “collusion with the Police”, as is being suggested, then that could be a major problem for FM as she gave that evidence at the inquest, where she was sworn to tell the truth.And FM was questioned about it directly by Craddock ….

I cannot see the Coroner going along with such a plan …. I don’t think she would risk her job and career over such a plan?

I also find it interesting that if people are doubting the truth about the cars, does that mean they are also doubting other aspects of the case, as we know it??

All JMO

Edit to add, this scenario of Police Tactic / Collusion, if real, would mean that the FM has lied repeatedly to the public on many occasions….. (about the 2 cars)

 

[Lemony]

There is also nothing to stop people with ill intent calling in their own tips if they want to push a particular barrow.

I think it was Mr Craddock (at the inquest) who said something about false tips being called into Crime Stoppers that were time wasters.

I'll have to try to find the link for that later. (Because I am not positive it was Mr Craddock, it might have been Jubes who said that in a presser.)

Or maybe @drsleuth remembers.

I have a vague recollection of Craddock mentioning time wasters

 

[SouthAussie]

So does that mean you don’t believe FM’s version of seeing 2 cars parked in the street?

If the cars were “made up” in “collusion with the Police”, as is being suggested, then that could be a major problem for FM as she gave that evidence at the inquest, where she was sworn to tell the truth.And FM was questioned about it directly by Craddock ….

I cannot see the Coroner going along with such a plan …. I don’t think she would risk her job and career over such a plan?

I also find it interesting that if people are doubting the truth about the cars, does that mean they are also doubting other aspects of the case, as we know it??

All JMO

Edit to add, this scenario of Police Tactic / Collusion, if real, would mean that the FM has lied repeatedly to the public on many occasions….. (about the 2 cars)

Are you thinking of the charges for misleading the Crime Commission?
If there was a covert police operation she was involved in, the police should have proof of that.

 

[Wexford]

Are you thinking of the charges for misleading the Crime Commission?
If there was a covert police operation she was involved in, the police should have proof of that.

yes they should

 

[SLouTh]

Are you thinking of the charges for misleading the Crime Commission?
If there was a covert police operation she was involved in, the police should have proof of that.

No not specifically…. And yes the Police would proof if that was the case …

I just can’t imagine lying to the Coroner about such a thing? If it was a Police Strategy then that evidence should have been heard in a closed court …. And the Coroner made fully aware of the situation….

There may have been a closed court session about it?? Who knows??? But an inquest is not the place for Police Strategies to be played out to the public … it is for the truth… IMO …
And possibly for strategies to be heard after the case is solved …. And hopefully someone found accountable …

 

[SouthAussie]

No not specifically…. And yes the Police would proof if that was the case …

I just can’t imagine lying to the Coroner about such a thing? If it was a Police Strategy then that evidence should have been heard in a closed court …. And the Coroner made fully aware of the situation….

There may have been a closed court session about it?? Who knows??? But an inquest is not the place for Police Strategies to be played out to the public … it is for the truth… IMO …
And possibly for strategies to be heard after the case is solved …. And hopefully someone found accountable …

True ... although this particular inquest was held during ongoing police investigations. Which is usually not the case at all (except perhaps in Daniel's case).

We will never know for sure. imo
Unless the Coronial Findings report sheds more light on it.

It still remains a mystery as to why the police waited a year before announcing to the public, during their televised police interview, that FM had seen the two cars.

 

[iiiii's]

Jubelin said in his book that police were distracted by people calling in and claiming to be clairvoyants or having had dreams about William and, IIRC, he went public to say that police did not need/want such distractions.

<modsnip: removed identifying initials of bio grandmother> was described as a suspect in one article. A sighting of a person that looked like her and a child in QLD. I remember the word suspect used and then she referred to herself as one in the ACA interview with KL. Just need to find a link to the article. I think the word has been changed in the article from suspect to POI. IMO

William Tyrrell: Police work on 600 persons of interest in suspect abduction investigation​

By Ava Benny-Morrison
Updated September 11 2016 - 7:28am, first published 7:25am

William Tyrrell: 600 persons of interest in suspect abduction investigation

NSW: Detectives investigating the suspected abduction of toddler William Tyrrell given information about 600 persons of interest.

www.busseltonmail.com.au

Originally alluded to in more detail in 2015

William Tyrrell investigation: highs, lows and false hope 12 months on

Despite an enormous amount of effort and good will, all the efforts to find toddler have not succeeded.

www.smh.com.au

 

[k-mac]

Imo it’s Not ok to leave marks or bruises on any child. I was a single parent of 4! kids and it wasn’t easy. But I never once laid a finger or in this case a spoon on any of my children. And trust me there were days I’d like to have. But I’m not that type of person and I won’t make excuses for people who have. Shame on that judge. Moo

I agree leaving injuries on a child is unacceptable and is not a minor assault.

 

[JBowie]

So does that mean you don’t believe FM’s version of seeing 2 cars parked in the street?

If the cars were “made up” in “collusion with the Police”, as is being suggested, then that could be a major problem for FM as she gave that evidence at the inquest, where she was sworn to tell the truth.And FM was questioned about it directly by Craddock ….

I cannot see the Coroner going along with such a plan …. I don’t think she would risk her job and career over such a plan?

I also find it interesting that if people are doubting the truth about the cars, does that mean they are also doubting other aspects of the case, as we know it??

All JMO

Edit to add, this scenario of Police Tactic / Collusion, if real, would mean that the FM has lied repeatedly to the public on many occasions….. (about the 2 cars)

The two cars story is just one of the things about the FM's account of that morning that doesn't sit well with me, and I guess with others.

However, to imagine that police invented the two cars sighting by her as part of some ploy beggars belief IMO.

For one thing, it paints her 'suddenly remembering' the cars on the way back from the airport story, despite having replied 'no, no, no, no' to the 000 operator in response to the question about strange cars, as ultra dodgy. Would police deliberately make her look dodgy -- and essentially a liar -- as part of some ploy?

I can't see that happening at all.

Can anyone cite any case where police told someone involved in the case to tell porkies to the public -- and to a magistrate/judge/coroner?

 

[SouthAussie]

I think the Sky News reporter, Andrew Clennell, was probably referring to Paul Savage as the other potential litigant.

Also, there's this from The Australian as linked in post #556 (BBM):

Unconfirmed reports also emerged on Sunday of NSW Police spending almost $1m – half in damages and half in legal costs – paying out an unidentified person of interest.

The Australian confirmed that another suspect in the case, William “Bill” Spedding, who is currently suing police, was not the unidentified person in the reports who had reached the settlement. The washing machine repairman, who was accused of abducting the three-year-old, is suing police for malicious prosecution and collateral abuse of process, in the NSW Supreme Court.

I think PS will have to wait until he is cleared by the Coroner before he proceeds with any litigation.


"Gerard Craddock SC has concluded his opening address, telling the court the details and evidence about any persons of interest will be the focus of the hearings in August."
Lia Harris Twitter


The first person up was PS.

Neighbour asked what he saw on day William Tyrrell vanished

Kendall resident Paul Savage describe William's relationship with his foster parents as close.

www.manningrivertimes.com.au

Followed by BS.

William Tyrrell inquest plagued by 'frustrating' delays and technical glitches

As the Coronial inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance had a special sitting in Taree — just 40 kilometres from where the toddler was last seen — family members have been left frustrated by delays and disappointed by its failure so far to turn up any substantial new leads.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JLZ]

I think PS will have to wait until he is cleared by the Coroner before he proceeds with any litigation.


"Gerard Craddock SC has concluded his opening address, telling the court the details and evidence about any persons of interest will be the focus of the hearings in August."
Lia Harris Twitter


The first person up was PS.

Neighbour asked what he saw on day William Tyrrell vanished

Kendall resident Paul Savage describe William's relationship with his foster parents as close.

www.manningrivertimes.com.au

Followed by BS.

William Tyrrell inquest plagued by 'frustrating' delays and technical glitches

As the Coronial inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance had a special sitting in Taree — just 40 kilometres from where the toddler was last seen — family members have been left frustrated by delays and disappointed by its failure so far to turn up any substantial new leads.

www.abc.net.au

That's fine if the coroner recommends charges against somebody other than PS, but what if it's an open finding? It's not her business to say whether each POI is innocent.

 

[SouthAussie]

That's fine if the coroner recommends charges against somebody other than PS, but what if it's an open finding? It's not her business to say whether each POI is innocent.

If it is an open finding (which I suspect it might be) then I don't know how any of the POIs who appeared at the inquest can sue NSWPOL for suspicions of their involvement in William's disappearance. Not unless they are later officially cleared by the police.

Presumably, PS' and BS' lawyers will stay on top of that.

 

[JLZ]

I suspect PS is the person who received the settlement and he's fibbing that he's still considering whether to sue. People don't want to advertise themselves as the recipients of a large windfall IMO perhaps because it attracts thieves, scammers. I was reading the other day that the ABC would have liked to interview lottery winners for the "You can't ask that" program but nobody would ever consent.

 

[JLZ]

If it is an open finding (which I suspect it might be) then I don't know how any of the POIs who appeared at the inquest can sue NSWPOL for suspicions of their involvement in William's disappearance. Not unless they are later officially cleared by the police.

Presumably, PS' and BS' lawyers will stay on top of that.

It's not the suspicion as such, it's the methodology.

 

[SouthAussie]

I suspect PS is the person who received the settlement and he's fibbing that he's still considering whether to sue. People don't want to advertise themselves as the recipients of a large windfall IMO perhaps because it attracts thieves, scammers. I was reading the other day that the ABC would have liked to interview lottery winners for the "You can't ask that" program but nobody would ever consent.

I don't think we even knew PS was a POI until NSWPOL laid charges against Jubes, did we? And the recording fiasco became public knowledge.

At the inquest, Laura Beacroft said there had been nothing to clear him ... just that NSWPOL was not treating him as an active POI.