Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[JBowie]

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AFAIK, the inquest was never stopped (apart from a temporary halt due to COVID). It was concluded on 8 October 2020 and the coroner had begun the long process of writing her findings. However, police then apparently became aware of fresh evidence that put a halt to the coroner's work pending a report back from police.

"The inquest closed on Thursday and Deputy State Coroner Grahame will review more than 18 months of evidence before handing down her findings mid-way through next year."

The emotional gift that left William Tyrrell's inquest in tears

It was a poignant gift at the conclusion of an 18-month inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell that triggered tears from police, a former homicide detective, lawyers, reporters and those who loved the missing boy.

www.abc.net.au

And regarding that, a reminder of this:

Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw told Stefanovic he thinks he knows who is responsible for the little boy vanishing almost seven years ago – but no one is in the clear.

Top detective makes bold claims on what happened to William Tyrrell

William Tyrrell vanished from his foster grandmother's home almost seven years ago in a case that shocked the nation.

www.skynews.com.au

 

[k-mac]

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https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/mystery-over-william-tyrrell-photo-throws-doubt-on-timeline-of-boys-disappearance/news-story/219eb525eb0e76070785485909574131

The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Ms Grahame and Mr Craddock agreed on the need for the forensic examination of the photograph.

The inquest into William Tyrrell’s disappearance will resume in March 2020.

Not aware of a definitive reason why that leg of the inquest was suddenly adjourned (oct 2019)...but it was suspiciously close to that photo discrepancy issue and a lot of us here felt it connected at the time.

 

[JBowie]

Not aware of a definitive reason why that leg of the inquest was suddenly adjourned (oct 2019)...but it was suspiciously close to that photo discrepancy issue and a lot of us here felt it connected at the time.

IIRC, somewhere in this gargantuan 71-part thread is a list of the dates of the various tranches of the inquest.

 

[deugirtni]

No not specifically, but it could have been one of the 48 documents released to the media by the Coroner last July???

On Tuesday, Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame released 48 documents in relation to William's disappearance, including transcripts of police interviews with persons of interest, transcripts of telephone calls, statements from police officers and photos of a Spider-Man suit that police planted in the bush as part of a surveillance operation.

Trove of Tyrrell documents show police doubted evidence of key witnesses

Evidence about cars parked outside the home where William Tyrrell vanished and the recollections of a Kendall man who claimed to have seen him in a car being driven away was doubted by investigators.

www.smh.com.au

I doubt if alllllll of the other media outlets/companies would have failed to publish those very important results of the photo discrepancy investigation, if the results were included in that release of docs. imo. It seems to have only been reported by CO at one news agency, who failed to quote her source or even her reasoning for reporting that. From memory I believe it was subsequently reported by another news agency, to me, from memory, it sounded like it had just been copied from CO's article (based on the report being similar if not same). imo.

 

[JLZ]

I wish you could read The Australian article that I linked above.

Audio of recordings of testimony given before the crime commission.

I think testimony is given in a hearing. Otherwise it would just be a statement(s).

imo

To further support what you're saying, when, in Queensland, the Thorburns were charged with giving false evidence to the crime and corruption commission, there had been "hearings".

Mr Thorburn then continued to give false accounts and statements to
the police and told his wife and sons to give false accounts and
statements to the police to corroborate his lies. On 29 June and 1
July 2016 Mr Thorburn gave false evidence in hearings conducted by
the Crime and Corruption Commission.
https://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/687131/cif-palmer-ta-20210618.pdf (paragraph 37)

 

[Mauig’ma]

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/mystery-over-william-tyrrell-photo-throws-doubt-on-timeline-of-boys-disappearance/news-story/219eb525eb0e76070785485909574131

The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Ms Grahame and Mr Craddock agreed on the need for the forensic examination of the photograph.

The inquest into William Tyrrell’s disappearance will resume in March 2020.

Not aware of a definitive reason why that leg of the inquest was suddenly adjourned (oct 2019)...but it was suspiciously close to that photo discrepancy issue and a lot of us here felt it connected at the time.

Hmmm

 

[Mauig’ma]

It seems that way from my understanding of the timeline. JMO

I guess we need to find out what the foster carers lied about before we know anything for sure. Imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

I really need to learn more about the alleged mental health problems.

I am wondering if these mental health issues came about around the same time that she was named as the prime suspect in her foster son's disappearance? If so, then it would be understandable, imo. And should not have a bearing on the actual incident.

I even wonder if the alleged child abuse incident is connected to that as well. If the child found out that her foster parents were now suspected in William's disappearance, that could create a lot of tension and even a confrontation or altercation between them. JMO

Yes and if that is the case should the ffc and mfc been around a child if one or both are dealing with mental health issues or tension in their household? Imo no they should not. Moo

 

[Couldbe]

We all have our own opinions. With all the conflicting info, I’m not convinced of your theory. Luckily we can agree to disagree on anything and everything as we see fit. I happen to disagree with this theory. Please don’t take it personally. We don’t know if one or both ffc were inside or outside when William disappeared. Only the 3 people who were there know the answer to that. And one was a child. And only the ffc and fgm actually know the truth. Hopefully all of the truths will come to light soon. I feel we’re getting closer. Imo. Until then all we can do is speculate. Imo moo. I do love reading everyone’s theories though. It makes a person think and consider other theories. I continue to have an open mind. So thank you SA and everyone else for all of your great posts. Any activity on William’s thread is progress imo

Great post ...... JMO .... addresses worthwhile aspects to remember.

 

[seekingjustice**]

Yes and if that is the case should the ffc and mfc been around a child if one or both are dealing with mental health issues or tension in their household? Imo no they should not. Moo

ITA.

I don't understand why the foster parents and foster GM were ruled out early on as Persons of Interest.

There were inconsistencies right from the start within their statements - the FM lied by omission by not disclosing that she left the property via vehicle while he was missing. FM and FGM's stories did not add up. FM changed her story days after William disappeared to include seeing the two strange cars and a strange man parked in a car outside the GM property. Very difficult relationship between FM and William. Signs of potential child abuse (black eye), stories about William apparently falling backwards off a stool. Bulk deleted text messages between FM and FF shortly before William disappeared. Discrepancy regarding time stamp on last known photo of William. MOO. FM and FGM last people to see William alive.

I believe that the other child should have been placed with another foster family
from the start of the investigation to ensure her emotional and physical safety. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

When Tranche#2 suddenly came to a halt - August 28th, 2019, not to be resumed until March 9th, 2020, over half a year later.

Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Aug 28
Counsel assisting Gerard Craddock SC just told the court the inquest will be suspended now and resume in March 2020... taking a six month break between hearings. @10NewsFirst

Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Aug 28
The coroner told the court she understood it “will be frustrating for some” but there are “reasons for it”. It will resume in Taree on March 9, 2020. @10NewsFirst @10Daily
=========================
The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Ms Grahame and Mr Craddock agreed on the need for the forensic examination of the photograph.

The inquest into William Tyrrell’s disappearance will resume in March 2020.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/mystery-over-william-tyrrell-photo-throws-doubt-on-timeline-of-boys-disappearance/news-story/219eb525eb0e76070785485909574131

=========================
The Australian understands Ms Grahame last week agreed to an application by Michelle Swift, counsel for William’s biological father, for further forensic testing of the image.

Ms Swift’s application was made in open court shortly before the inquest was suddenly adjourned for seven months. The subject matter wasn’t revealed, and Ms Swift refused to comment. However, Ms Grahame responded to the application by saying the matter needed investigation, and Mr Craddock agreed it was important. Police have been unable to provide the court with an explanation for this terminology, which has in turn created uncertainty.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/timestamp-doubts-over-william-photo/news-story/cf0accb8b602bde307146268bfad49c4

 

[SLouTh]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Janet Fife Yeomans, from The Telegraph on April 14, 2022

Paraphrased:

Metadata has confirmed that photos were taken at the time stated, despite questions asked at the Inquest if they were taken 2 hours earlier.

From this article

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/william-tyrrell-where-foster-mum-fits-into-missing-toddler-mystery/news-story/65a0ecde5f265bf69beacef17bdfc066

I doubt if alllllll of the other media outlets/companies would have failed to publish those very important results of the photo discrepancy investigation, if the results were included in that release of docs. imo. It seems to have only been reported by CO at one news agency, who failed to quote her source or even her reasoning for reporting that. From memory I believe it was subsequently reported by another news agency, to me, from memory, it sounded like it had just been copied from CO's article (based on the report being similar if not same). imo.

I was answering a question by iiii's if anyone other journalist had reported on the photo finding...... which they have..... so now we have at least 3 journalists and 3 newspapers reporting the same thing.....

Perhaps the newspapers associated with CO and The Australian reported the details, as it was The Australian that has obtained the 2000 page Evidence Brief .

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

After Coroner Grahame in 2019 ordered a digital forensic expert urgently resolve the time stamp issue, it was determined EXIF data could be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons.

This included the camera's time and date settings being set up incorrectly, or not changed from the factory settings to real time.

This article was by Candace Sutton 5 December 2021
Why CCTV at local club could prove crucial in William Tyrrell case

 

[deugirtni]

I was answering a question by iiii's if anyone other journalist had reported on the photo finding...... which they have..... so now we have at least 3 journalists and 3 newspapers reporting the same thing.....

Perhaps the newspapers associated with CO and The Australian reported the details, as it was The Australian that has obtained the 2000 page Evidence Brief .

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

After Coroner Grahame in 2019 ordered a digital forensic expert urgently resolve the time stamp issue, it was determined EXIF data could be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons.

This included the camera's time and date settings being set up incorrectly, or not changed from the factory settings to real time.

This article was by Candace Sutton 5 December 2021
Why CCTV at local club could prove crucial in William Tyrrell case

Yes, to me the DT and the Australian are the same, as same owner/publisher(?), and CO, as a writer/reporter(?) for The Australian, is same as CO the author of her book. So I'm not sure there was actually more than one person reporting on the alleged finding.
========================
The metadata report was reported to have been obtained by The Australian and written about on Monday, September 1st, 2019, just after the inquest was suddenly halted with no explanation:

· Exclusive
Caroline Overington Associate Editor @overingtonc
· 12:00AM September 3, 2019

Confusion over the time-stamp on the last known photograph of William Tyrrell will be addressed by the introduction of additional “expert evidence”, a coroner’s court has confirmed.

The Australian on Monday revealed uncertainty about the time stamps on the now-famous photo of William in his Spider-Man suit.

The confusion exists because a metadata report, obtained by The Australian, has both a “time created” stamp of 7.39am on September 12, 2014 — the morning of William’s disappearance — and a “corrected time” stamp of 9.37am.
=======================
This article from Daily Mail was written September 1, 2019, just after the inquest was suddenly halted without explanation, and it refers to the 2000 page document exclusively received by The Australian.

By Kelsey Wilkie For Daily Mail Australia

Published: 19:46 EDT, 1 September 2019 | Updated: 21:02 EDT, 1 September 2019

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

Police have now been ordered an urgent probe into the 118 unexplained minutes between the time of the photo and when William vanished.

======================
So the 'new document' from the 2000 page evidence brief, obtained by 'The Australian' wasn't showing the results of the sudden and urgent examination of the photographs, it was being suggested as the reason for the urgent examination, according to the articles/info above.

The results were not reported until... when? And when they were reported, they were only reported by one reporter, CO, who failed to state where her information came from. If the coroner had received the info back from the examiner(s) and decided to tell ONE reporter, why would she not tell all the media, similar to how she released other documents and photos along the way to 'all' of the media outlets at the same time? That doesn't make sense. For me, I'm not buying it and feel CO has misreported that, likely not on purpose,.... until I see something more official. If CO had obtained the results from anywhere worthy of reporting, why would she not have reported from where they came, ie a police source who isn't allowed to speak on the matter, or the coroner, or... from an exclusive document received, etc. jmo.

 

[SouthAussie]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

drsleuth said they had known Swift wanted to make an application for days - presumably Craddock knew what it was about as the coroner said to him to not forget the application, and he said yes that important application, or words to that effect (which are quoted in the thread around the linked post that drsleuth made).

But it seems that Craddock held Swift off in making the submission in open court until later.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

Can someone summarise the witnesses for the last few days of the inquest before it was adjourned? I haven’t been following the witness list. Was KC the last witness and has she been excused?

www.websleuths.com

 

[deugirtni]

I was answering a question by iiii's if anyone other journalist had reported on the photo finding...... which they have..... so now we have at least 3 journalists and 3 newspapers reporting the same thing.....

Perhaps the newspapers associated with CO and The Australian reported the details, as it was The Australian that has obtained the 2000 page Evidence Brief .

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

After Coroner Grahame in 2019 ordered a digital forensic expert urgently resolve the time stamp issue, it was determined EXIF data could be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons.

This included the camera's time and date settings being set up incorrectly, or not changed from the factory settings to real time.

This article was by Candace Sutton 5 December 2021
Why CCTV at local club could prove crucial in William Tyrrell case

This Candace Sutton article written December 5, 2021 is not reporting on any result, it is reporting on the lack of result. imo. (Obviously CS isn't on her game either, as in December 2021 she wrote that police have 'now' been ordered an urgent probe into the unexplained 118 minutes, which is the discrepancy, when in fact we know that happened back at the end of August in 2019 - she is revisiting prior articles, which I feel CO has also done when she reported a result.)

The article is also stating that EXIF data 'could' be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons - not that one of those reasons was in fact found. The data 'could' also be 'correct', and have 'other' reasons for being different than the time LE/GJ determined it should be, in conjunction with FFC, imo.

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

Police have now been ordered an urgent probe into the 118 unexplained minutes between the time of the photo and when William vanished.

After Coroner Grahame in 2019 ordered a digital forensic expert urgently resolve the time stamp issue, it was determined EXIF data could be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons.

This included the camera's time and date settings being set up incorrectly, or not changed from the factory settings to real time.

Ms Smith said the community needed answers about that and the scenario suggested by Richard Donoghue's police statement.

'If there's nothing in it, there' s nothing in it,' she said.

'It could be put to bed so easily. But it needs to be investigated.

'No wonder this case is like it is.'

Why CCTV at local club could prove crucial in William Tyrrell case

 

[SLouTh]

This Candace Sutton article written December 5, 2021 is not reporting on any result, it is reporting on the lack of result. imo. (Obviously CS isn't on her game either, as in December 2021 she wrote that police have 'now' been ordered an urgent probe into the unexplained 118 minutes, which is the discrepancy, when in fact we know that happened back at the end of August in 2019 - she is revisiting prior articles, which I feel CO has also done when she reported a result.)

The article is also stating that EXIF data 'could' be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons - not that one of those reasons was in fact found. The data 'could' also be 'correct', and have 'other' reasons for being different than the time LE/GJ determined it should be, in conjunction with FFC, imo.

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

Police have now been ordered an urgent probe into the 118 unexplained minutes between the time of the photo and when William vanished.

After Coroner Grahame in 2019 ordered a digital forensic expert urgently resolve the time stamp issue, it was determined EXIF data could be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons.

This included the camera's time and date settings being set up incorrectly, or not changed from the factory settings to real time.

Ms Smith said the community needed answers about that and the scenario suggested by Richard Donoghue's police statement.

'If there's nothing in it, there' s nothing in it,' she said.

'It could be put to bed so easily. But it needs to be investigated.

'No wonder this case is like it is.'

Why CCTV at local club could prove crucial in William Tyrrell case

Ok you WIN!!!!! I don't want any conflict .... I was just answering a question on the thread with MSM Links
Written words can be interpreted many ways ..... and I would like to end the discussion about this matter here...

 

[k-mac]

Yes, to me the DT and the Australian are the same, as same owner/publisher(?), and CO, as a writer/reporter(?) for The Australian, is same as CO the author of her book. So I'm not sure there was actually more than one person reporting on the alleged finding.
========================
The metadata report was reported to have been obtained by The Australian and written about on Monday, September 1st, 2019, just after the inquest was suddenly halted with no explanation:

· Exclusive
Caroline Overington Associate Editor @overingtonc
· 12:00AM September 3, 2019

Confusion over the time-stamp on the last known photograph of William Tyrrell will be addressed by the introduction of additional “expert evidence”, a coroner’s court has confirmed.

The Australian on Monday revealed uncertainty about the time stamps on the now-famous photo of William in his Spider-Man suit.

The confusion exists because a metadata report, obtained by The Australian, has both a “time created” stamp of 7.39am on September 12, 2014 — the morning of William’s disappearance — and a “corrected time” stamp of 9.37am.
=======================
This article from Daily Mail was written September 1, 2019, just after the inquest was suddenly halted without explanation, and it refers to the 2000 page document exclusively received by The Australian.

By Kelsey Wilkie For Daily Mail Australia

Published: 19:46 EDT, 1 September 2019 | Updated: 21:02 EDT, 1 September 2019

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

Police have now been ordered an urgent probe into the 118 unexplained minutes between the time of the photo and when William vanished.

======================
So the 'new document' from the 2000 page evidence brief, obtained by 'The Australian' wasn't showing the results of the sudden and urgent examination of the photographs, it was being suggested as the reason for the urgent examination, according to the articles/info above.

The results were not reported until... when? And when they were reported, they were only reported by one reporter, CO, who failed to state where her information came from. If the coroner had received the info back from the examiner(s) and decided to tell ONE reporter, why would she not tell all the media, similar to how she released other documents and photos along the way to 'all' of the media outlets at the same time? That doesn't make sense. For me, I'm not buying it and feel CO has misreported that, likely not on purpose,.... until I see something more official. If CO had obtained the results from anywhere worthy of reporting, why would she not have reported from where they came, ie a police source who isn't allowed to speak on the matter, or the coroner, or... from an exclusive document received, etc. jmo.

The pictures are still definitely on the table. ( for me.)

I think it would be better for a potential prosecution if it was something else.
Catching them out in multiple deceptions will be hard to dispute.
Hoping its not all tied to changing the date on these pictures.

But lets go there.
Changing the date for a few hours but the same day is sketchy and cunning.

Changing the entire date from a different visit be a very sloppy hard to explain "mistake.'

I know supposedly he got the suit in bali only weeks before.
what if there was a undisclosed trip to kendall?

or the spiderman suit has been proven to be purchased online or previously.
Just because he was wearing it in bali doesn't mean that is where it originated from.
Other than the FP saying so.

What if it is the famed spiderman suit has been in the frame of williams life much longer than stated?

It has been discussed heavily in old threads but not everyone here now was around then and had these conversations.
Now the conversation can be free-er with FM a POI it is worth reflecting on again.




moo

 

[iiiii's]

Thank you Slouth and Deugirtni for your detailed explanations showing the process behind your conclusions. From that info, and also the scrutiny of the FFC as a POI recently and the recent charges against her from the NSWCC, I think this photo issue may not be resolved as yet.

My concern with the examination of the photo is the specific questions that will be investigated in regards to this piece of evidence. This is just based on my own experience with an insurance company and them not wanting accountability for negligent work that was undertaken on my behalf in relation to a vehicle, the result of which could have ended in death. Any tests I asked them to undertake, the experts basically answered the questions submitted to them and did not draw conclusions. It was up to me to continually point out from the results of their testing, that it falls in line with my complaint and then suggested the next part of testing or investigation they should do. I finally prevailed however I hope there is more than just technical information given explaining how those discrepency in times, could have occurred. I want to know the whole process from when the photos were taken to when the police fully accepted the time on the photos as an official piece of evidence, the only piece of evidence we can be sure of in this investigation. IMO

 

[iiiii's]

I know supposedly he got the suit in bali only weeks before.
what if there was a undisclosed trip to kendall?






moo

RSBM

I think it is highly possible/probable that this could have occurred but for the life of me, I do not understand why the police /media have not reported such a thing. MOO

 

[bearbear]

could fcs be required to give potentially incriminating information about each other, or even choose to, especially if they are separated?
i dont think spousal priviledge is recognised in australia?

Australia’s High Court says “no” to Spousal Privilege – Denver Journal of International Law & Policy