Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[FromGermany1]

This is just my jumbled speculation:

Adults are sleeping separately. To maximize parenting? A harbinger of marital tension?

Morning begins, busy. Wm is emptying cupboards. IMO he's still in his jams.

Still speculating -- the male caregiver leaves. To get a newspaper, perhaps to drop off a script. Meanwhile, the remaining individuals have breakfast. Wm dons his Spiderman tee and Spiderman duds.

Male caregiver returns home. Foster children race to the yard to meet him.

Foster children play on their bikes.

Female caregiver makes tea (the first of two times IMO). Everyone gathers on the veranda. Photo ops. Foster grandma has her tea and her newspaper, foster daughter is alternately playing with Wm and drawing. The photos are taken.

Male caregiver leaves again, for his virtual meeting.

Wm runs around the side of the house but turns sharply, onto the second veranda and not the yard. At the length, he is now a full story above ground, but it took him only a step or two to access the veranda. He may not realize that, while the veranda hadn't changed, the landscape below it had fallen off.

Possibly he is pursued, over correction from rambunctious dice rolling.

And Wm crashes into the garden.from a height. Death, immediate.

IMO I think, in that one moment, one person made one calculated decision -- that no one can ever know about this.

I think the neighbors were serenaded with a raucous exchange of Mommy Monster, only zero children were playing. And only one adult.

While the foster grandma sipped her tea second tea?) and read her paper at leisure and the foster daughter lost herself in coloring, I think the female caregiver drove off in the foster grandma's car.

If she were truly driving for the purposes of a search, IMO she'd have told the foster grandma to keep an eye on the foster daughter and call her cell if Wm shows up.

I think she did not. I think she left, in secret, fairly confident that the two on the deck were well occupied.

I think, however, that she was gone long enough that the foster grandma noticed, and went in search of....

I think the female caregiver arrived home barely before the male caregiver did. I think she must've pulled in just ahead of the foster grandma coming to look for her.

I think no one but the female caregiver knew about that drive -- except perhaps for neighbors who may have heard the car. And I think it would have remained a secret. If not for the trucker making eye contact.

I think the foster grandma was easily moulded to think mere minutes elapsed between Wm and the female caregiver's exodus from the deck --

When the male caregiver arrived, the female caregiver gave off the impression IMO and by design that Wm had JUST gone missing and she had JUST begun searching -- five minutes, could have been 20, he was just here and now he's gone...

The drive is key.

JMO

I agree with some of it and that "the drive is the key". But I can't imagine W's fatal fall from the balcony. He must have climbed over the railing then! Why should he have been dead immediately (without a single scream)? Why and how did FFC have a certain thought (to disappear him/his body) immediately? She couldn't have driven far - why was little W not found, when so many people searched for him?

 

[FromGermany1]

I do remember that FromGermany but that’s a different Truck Driver I’m thinking - but then I think about Mr Chapman’s description of the person driving the speeding car with a little Spider-Man in the rear - ?

FFC told, afaik, that she made room for the truck to drive past her. Something like that. - Unfortunately I don't know, where to search for it.
The C-sighting was another thing and also a big blonde woman, whom C saw, especially described with having a bun.

 

[Megnut]

I agree with some of it and that "the drive is the key". But I can't imagine W's fatal fall from the balcony. He must have climbed over the railing then! Why should he have been dead immediately (without a single scream)? Why and how did FFC have a certain thought (to disappear him/his body) immediately? She couldn't have driven far - why was little W not found, when so many people searched for him?

FFC told, afaik, that she made room for the truck to drive past her. Something like that. - Unfortunately I don't know, where to search for it.
The C-sighting was another thing and also a big blonde woman, whom C saw, especially described with having a bun.

Self-preservation (preservation of image, of marriage, of family, of foster status) can be a powerful thing. You choose the first lie, sometimes the others follow.

I wonder if the female caregiver didn't grab the foster grandma's coat and even a pompom cap in a fast, improv attempt at a disguise. Might look like a bun, might look like bulk.

If Wm was, in fact, squirreled away on that drive, I don't think that was his final resting place. I believe he'd be moved.

Why would she do any part of this? Because IMO she had a lot to lose.

Why no scream? I think Wm DID scream. And she screamed. And then she morphed it into Mommy Monster because she needed to buy time.

I don't think this was premeditated. I don't think there was any intention for Wm to be hurt.

At 3, he was likely running, with or without the naughty dice, and climbed on a chair or the rail and didn't realize he was a full story up. Crashed in the garden...

Let's say this: if something like that DID happen, only in this version, she screamed for the foster grandma and they called for an ambulance immediately, what would've followed? A review? Potential loss of foster license, loss of foster daughter. Potential loss of marriage.

This is how IMO we got to here.

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

This is just my jumbled speculation:

Adults are sleeping separately. To maximize parenting? A harbinger of marital tension?

Morning begins, busy. Wm is emptying cupboards. IMO he's still in his jams.

Still speculating -- the male caregiver leaves. To get a newspaper, perhaps to drop off a script. Meanwhile, the remaining individuals have breakfast. Wm dons his Spiderman tee and Spiderman duds.

Male caregiver returns home. Foster children race to the yard to meet him.

Foster children play on their bikes.

Female caregiver makes tea (the first of two times IMO). Everyone gathers on the veranda. Photo ops. Foster grandma has her tea and her newspaper, foster daughter is alternately playing with Wm and drawing. The photos are taken.

Male caregiver leaves again, for his virtual meeting.

Wm runs around the side of the house but turns sharply, onto the second veranda and not the yard. At the length, he is now a full story above ground, but it took him only a step or two to access the veranda. He may not realize that, while the veranda hadn't changed, the landscape below it had fallen off.

Possibly he is pursued, over correction from rambunctious dice rolling.

And Wm crashes into the garden.from a height. Death, immediate.

IMO I think, in that one moment, one person made one calculated decision -- that no one can ever know about this.

I think the neighbors were serenaded with a raucous exchange of Mommy Monster, only zero children were playing. And only one adult.

While the foster grandma sipped her tea second tea?) and read her paper at leisure and the foster daughter lost herself in coloring, I think the female caregiver drove off in the foster grandma's car.

If she were truly driving for the purposes of a search, IMO she'd have told the foster grandma to keep an eye on the foster daughter and call her cell if Wm shows up.

I think she did not. I think she left, in secret, fairly confident that the two on the deck were well occupied.

I think, however, that she was gone long enough that the foster grandma noticed, and went in search of....

I think the female caregiver arrived home barely before the male caregiver did. I think she must've pulled in just ahead of the foster grandma coming to look for her.

I think no one but the female caregiver knew about that drive -- except perhaps for neighbors who may have heard the car. And I think it would have remained a secret. If not for the trucker making eye contact.

I think the foster grandma was easily moulded to think mere minutes elapsed between Wm and the female caregiver's exodus from the deck --

When the male caregiver arrived, the female caregiver gave off the impression IMO and by design that Wm had JUST gone missing and she had JUST begun searching -- five minutes, could have been 20, he was just here and now he's gone...

The drive is key.

JMO

Megnut, JMO that your feasible speculation on what could have occurred has prompted me to notice how close the back deck is to the kitchen:

 

[JBowie]

Once again I will say that I have problems with the FM's version of events on that day. I do suspect that something -- such as a serious lack of supervision on someone's part -- is being covered up, however, had William fallen and died and then been taken away within moments, then I would expect an experienced homicide detective to be able to wring that admission out of someone who is an ordinary person, as opposed to (say) a hardened criminal who is very comfortable lying under pressure to police.

Jubelin says that he interrogated both fosters. I would like to see the video of that. Snippets of videos of BS and PS being interrogated have been released publicly. The same policy ought to apply to the fosters, IMO.

 

[JLZ]

At 3, he was likely running, with or without the naughty dice, and climbed on a chair or the rail and didn't realize he was a full story up. Crashed in the garden...

Or if he'd ridden his bike on the verandah, he might have crashed at the end and been propelled over the edge, or used the bike to climb onto the railing. The foster family would have a motive for covering up such serious negligence.

 

[Couldbe]

MOO – By working on a process of elimination following are 3 brief descriptions of possible scenarios:-

1. Wandered and became lost:
   Fosters stated that he wasn’t a wanderer.
   Searches did not find him.
   New owners of FFGM property, with fresh eyes, did not discover his body.
2. Opportunistic Abduction:
   If approached, William could easily run back up / called out to FFC ….. thereby causing possible Abductor to abandon his intention.
   Early road-blocks did not reveal/capture any suspicious evidence.
3. Accident, thereafter hiding/disposing of his body:
   If this had occurred, then much of the evidence was not available … due to mistakes made in not cordoning off the scene when well-meaning Searchers descended in the vicinity.
   If FFC was involved in William’s disappearance did she just get lucky, and Homicide Detectives who questioned the Fosters were only able to extract conflicting details and mis-matching stories …. thereby then choosing to pursue possible Paedophile involvement.

JMOO – The joining in and assistance of so many people very early in the disappearance contributed momentum, and everyone was then carried away with the distress of FFC and MFC, and didn’t consider the Fosters actually had anything to do with William’s disappearance. This momentum continued; with the PR Company becoming involved and promoting the public awareness.

 

[nightrider17]

Police walkthrough reveals details about William Tyrrell's foster parents

9now.nine.com.au

About 1.17 there is a walkthrough video on the ACA clip and the MFC says I saw her on the phone (FFC) and she says should I call the police and the MFC says yes call the police.

So who was FFC on the phone too?? before the police?? MOO

 

[Doesitmakesense]

MOO – By working on a process of elimination following are 3 brief descriptions of possible scenarios:-

1. Wandered and became lost:
   Fosters stated that he wasn’t a wanderer.
   Searches did not find him.
   New owners of FFGM property, with fresh eyes, did not discover his body.
2. Opportunistic Abduction:
   If approached, William could easily run back up / called out to FFC ….. thereby causing possible Abductor to abandon his intention.
   Early road-blocks did not reveal/capture any suspicious evidence.
3. Accident, thereafter hiding/disposing of his body:
   If this had occurred, then much of the evidence was not available … due to mistakes made in not cordoning off the scene when well-meaning Searchers descended in the vicinity.
   If FFC was involved in William’s disappearance did she just get lucky, and Homicide Detectives who questioned the Fosters were only able to extract conflicting details and mis-matching stories …. thereby then choosing to pursue possible Paedophile involvement.

JMOO – The joining in and assistance of so many people very early in the disappearance contributed momentum, and everyone was then carried away with the distress of FFC and MFC, and didn’t consider the Fosters actually had anything to do with William’s disappearance. This momentum continued; with the PR Company becoming involved and promoting the public awareness.

One thing I noticed when looking back at thread #39 & 40 and the associated msm articles is a lot of the article state WT was taken, not missing. Be it deliberate or not the agenda of WT being "taken" has been pushed for a long time, with no evidence that we know of to back it up.

 

[bearbear]

The foster mother also became upset when she was describing another car in the street that morning driven by a “thick-necked” man with a weathered face who had given her a challenging stare.

“You know when you look at someone and there’s that second challenge, ‘why are you watching me, I am watching you’.

“It was fleeting.”

The foster mother said that the police had since identified the car.

“I did have pretty intense reaction,” she said, her voice breaking.

“But in terms of the person … the image we ended up with is not the man.”

She described the man as large, with a big abdomen, short red hair, “not overly tanned” and having no facial hair.

i wonder who this was? police identified the vehicle but not the man?

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230

 

[bearbear]

Can you recall the name of the guy who told the local rag that two parts were needed but only one had come in? If so, I can likely find the article itself. IIRC, this guy had some sort of working relationship with BS?

If such a telco record existed, then I don't recall reading it in either CO's or GJ's books. I think I would have flagged it if I had read that.

Seems to me that Jubelin would have considered any such call of particular interest in respect of the reason that BS gave for not going ahead with the planned service trip on the 12th?

If the call was made, then given the apparent parts situation, I can imagine it being along the lines of "I have one of the parts needed, but not the other. Do you want me to come today and do part of the job and then have to come back when the other part arrives, or will we wait until both parts are here and complete the job in the one trip?"

Who supposedly answered the call? The FGM? If so, then the FM was speaking for her, not from direct experience (i.e. hearsay), or did the FM claim to have had a conversation with BS?

And I wonder what BS has to say about this alleged call?

didnt bs say something like
'the other daughter took the call?'

 

[Couldbe]

One thing I noticed when looking back at thread #39 & 40 and the associated msm articles is a lot of the article state WT was taken, not missing. Be it deliberate or not the agenda of WT being "taken" has been pushed for a long time, with no evidence that we know of to back it up.

Extracted and BBM from your post Doesitmakesense: "Be it deliberate or not the agenda of WT being "taken" has been pushed for a long time, with no evidence that we know of to back it up."

JMO - Surely this lack of any evidence of William being 'taken' makes it unacceptable for a PR Company to put that assumption out there.

 

[Mauig’ma]

This is just my jumbled speculation:

Adults are sleeping separately. To maximize parenting? A harbinger of marital tension?

Morning begins, busy. Wm is emptying cupboards. IMO he's still in his jams.

Still speculating -- the male caregiver leaves. To get a newspaper, perhaps to drop off a script. Meanwhile, the remaining individuals have breakfast. Wm dons his Spiderman tee and Spiderman duds.

Male caregiver returns home. Foster children race to the yard to meet him.

Foster children play on their bikes.

Female caregiver makes tea (the first of two times IMO). Everyone gathers on the veranda. Photo ops. Foster grandma has her tea and her newspaper, foster daughter is alternately playing with Wm and drawing. The photos are taken.

Male caregiver leaves again, for his virtual meeting.

Wm runs around the side of the house but turns sharply, onto the second veranda and not the yard. At the length, he is now a full story above ground, but it took him only a step or two to access the veranda. He may not realize that, while the veranda hadn't changed, the landscape below it had fallen off.

Possibly he is pursued, over correction from rambunctious dice rolling.

And Wm crashes into the garden.from a height. Death, immediate.

IMO I think, in that one moment, one person made one calculated decision -- that no one can ever know about this.

I think the neighbors were serenaded with a raucous exchange of Mommy Monster, only zero children were playing. And only one adult.

While the foster grandma sipped her tea second tea?) and read her paper at leisure and the foster daughter lost herself in coloring, I think the female caregiver drove off in the foster grandma's car.

If she were truly driving for the purposes of a search, IMO she'd have told the foster grandma to keep an eye on the foster daughter and call her cell if Wm shows up.

I think she did not. I think she left, in secret, fairly confident that the two on the deck were well occupied.

I think, however, that she was gone long enough that the foster grandma noticed, and went in search of....

I think the female caregiver arrived home barely before the male caregiver did. I think she must've pulled in just ahead of the foster grandma coming to look for her.

I think no one but the female caregiver knew about that drive -- except perhaps for neighbors who may have heard the car. And I think it would have remained a secret. If not for the trucker making eye contact.

I think the foster grandma was easily moulded to think mere minutes elapsed between Wm and the female caregiver's exodus from the deck --

When the male caregiver arrived, the female caregiver gave off the impression IMO and by design that Wm had JUST gone missing and she had JUST begun searching -- five minutes, could have been 20, he was just here and now he's gone...

The drive is key.

JMO

Imo this is exactly what happened. I still think the time stamped pictures come into play along the way. This is exactly how I envision it playing out. Imo the reason media is so quiet is because le are trying to fit all the pieces together. Years ago at the beginning all of the I’m consistencies didn’t fit until now. And all the pieces are starting to fit along with item/s they found that were tested. Imo moo I pray this case gets cracked wide open with help of fresh evidence and all of the inconsistencies. Imo moo

 

[Mauig’ma]

I agree with some of it and that "the drive is the key". But I can't imagine W's fatal fall from the balcony. He must have climbed over the railing then! Why should he have been dead immediately (without a single scream)? Why and how did FFC have a certain thought (to disappear him/his body) immediately? She couldn't have driven far - why was little W not found, when so many people searched for him?

How do we know if he accidentally fell that he didn’t scream. I think he did but to a distant neighbor it could easily pass as playing

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Extracted and BBM from your post Doesitmakesense: "Be it deliberate or not the agenda of WT being "taken" has been pushed for a long time, with no evidence that we know of to back it up."

JMO - Surely this lack of any evidence of William being 'taken' makes it unacceptable for a PR Company to put that assumption out there.

They are a PR company, I think their whole purpose is the push a particular agenda. I don't think they are held to any standard of conduct

 

[nightrider17]

And there is also a hand injury - can be explained.
But oddly person is missing and the person who last saw them has a injury is this not normally a red flag?? MOO

 

[deugirtni]

Perhaps, by Friday morning, only one part had arrived, but by Friday afternoon he had them both?

That is what BS testified to at tranche#2 of the inquest:

from LH's tweets:

Lia Harris @LiaJHarris·Aug 26
He told the court he was expecting to receive the parts on Thursday the 11th of September. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

Lia Harris @LiaJHarris·Aug 26
Mr Spedding told the court half of the parts were delivered on Thursday and the other half on Friday. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

ETA: same inquest day when MS was on the stand and sounds like BS's lawyer was questioning her

Lia Harris @LiaJHarris·Aug 26
Bill Spedding’s lawyer, Peter O’Brien, is now questioning his wife Margaret. He tells the court the parts for William’s foster mother’s washing machine were delivered to the Spedding home address at 12.19pm on the 12th of September. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

Lia Harris @LiaJHarris·Aug 26
Mr O’Brien told the court phone records show Bill Spedding then called the foster grandmother’s home phone from his mobile at 2.46pm on the 12th of September. @10Daily @10NewsFirst

Lia Harris @LiaJHarris·Aug 26
Correction: foster grandmother’s washing machine.

 

[nightrider17]

Also the MFC walk through video he says he comes around and ***** is sitting on the patio and he says "where is he" and she/they say "he was here 5 minutes ago"

I just feel why would FGM be sitting still on the back patio if they were thinking he was missing, I understand she may have been looking after LT but in her walk through video she said she went down to the road where AMS was and then the MFC turned up. MOO

 

[Mauig’ma]

On that point, I believe that when GJ was put in charge he went back over all of the material and he had BS and his movements squarely in his sights, so IMO he would have known all about that call.



That's it, thanks. Referred to as CY in a few places.



In which case the FM's testimony on this was hearsay, IMO.

But the hearsay would have been confirmed by 1. whoever took the call 2. FGM as she apparently mentioned it to FM.

Who knows, the presumed fact that BS made that call in the afternoon might have been one of the first things that put BS on the map.

Your post 1,111 you just said “there were indications that neither the foster g’ma or fgc didn’t take BS call that day and it could have been someone else”. That’s contradictory. Which do you think it is. Can’t be both imo. Moo

 

[Couldbe]

Also the MFC walk through video he says he comes around and ***** is sitting on the patio and he says "where is he" and she/they say "he was here 5 minutes ago"

I just feel why would FGM be sitting still on the back patio if they were thinking he was missing, I understand she may have been looking after LT but in her walk through video she said she went down to the road where AMS was and then the MFC turned up. MOO

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his FINAL hours and bedroom he slept in before vanishing

www.nytimespost.com

BBM - JMO, this may have just been a poor choice of words!: (Was she not able to hear William's name being called out?)

"‘When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

‘It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said “I’ve got to call the police”.

‘I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well."