Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[JLZ]

True South Aussie, even after all these years both families have been under a lot of stress, even the bio parents have been in trouble with the law. There is a breaking point for the FP as well.
IMO with my children going to their bedrooms to calm down when there has been disagreement etc and yes they would be saying "I need to go to toilet sometimes it is just an excuse but I would ask them to wait a few minutes if they ask again I give they the trust to go to the toilet. but they never threaten even my child on the Autism Spectrum has never threated to wee or poo on the floor.
If there was kick or attempted kick( which is wrong for anyone to do) but it could been a very wrong reaction to the fact a 12 girl/child pulled their pants down to make motion of doing a call of nature on the floor.

I think the whole 'timeout' concept is a justification for the parent expressing rejection of the child. The child is meant to cry, not calm down. When I learnt to calm myself down and enjoy the time alone, my mother stopped doing it because it didn't punish me.

 

[T-dawg420]

It is in the police report that The Australian has viewed. It is in a psychologist's report tendered as part of the appeal to lift the suppression order (whatever that means).

The police said that the FP were trying to deal with problematic behaviour. Presumably, the police know what the problematic behaviour was.

It says ..... police will allege <FM> and <FD> had been “attempting to intervene in the (alleged) victim’s problematic behaviour".

.

I have been able to read the paywalled article and It does say in brackets alleged, in reference to the problematic behaviour. And I wonder who stated the behaviour as problematic? Is it a conclusion of the psychologist came up with or was it something foster parents stated?

If it was something foster parents have stated, is it backed up with proof? Cos one could form the opinion it could be a defence mechanism made by the fosters imo

 

[SLouTh]

We also need to remember that the release of this information being splashed across The Australian may also have dire consequences on the FP’s mental health … and cause a downward spiral that may lead to suicide….
I don’t think anyone would want that outcome….

I hope they have safety plans in place….

I also hope the bio family have support when reading about what is alleged…and have been provided with adequate support through this process…

I am not being “pro foster” here…. I only want justice for William and for all those involved in his wee life to remain safe….

I believe in “fair and equitable” ….
IMO

 

[Curiouskatz11]

We also need to remember that the release of this information being splashed across The Australian may also have dire consequences on the FP’s mental health … and cause a downward spiral that may lead to suicide….
I don’t think anyone would want that outcome….

I hope they have safety plans in place….

I also hope the bio family have support when reading about what is alleged…and have been provided with adequate support through this process…

I am not being “pro foster” here…. I only want justice for William and for all those involved in his wee life to remain safe….

I believe in “fair and equitable” ….
IMO

Fair and equitable has its limits though IMO. The fosters are not publicly identified. I can think of countless politicians, sports stars, actors etc who have been accused of all sorts of things in the media and have not had the luxury of anonymity.

 

[Shadow@light]

Omg, FM comes from the old school type of parenting. I knew a lady from work around 25 years ago, who kept a wooden spoon in her large handbag while visiting our place, anytime her sons stepped out of line, she’d show them the spoon. She swore it was effective in controlling their naughtiness, they certainly took notice! She had 3 boys under 6 years of age. I didn’t agree with it then, and I don’t now, but it was very prevalent and accepted discipline with parents in my age group, which FM is.
I’m also not keen on timeouts if your child gets too emotionally worked up. I tried once with my son, and he became hysterical and nearly kicked the door in, it wasn’t worth destroying his spirit to gain very little ground. It does work for some it seems, my 2 girls didn’t need it, but imo, if the child doesn’t understand the concept, it shouldn’t be applied, there are gentler ways, and sometimes it’s better to let it go. JMO.

I always remembered the dreaded wooden spoon, with Grandparents but I and siblings toed the line I remember hear a Steve Vizard(Media person) saying his Mum used the wooden spoon which she called Satan. Example, "If you kids don't behave, I get Satan out..." Few year later at a church Service he got into trouble as the Minster was droning on about sin and you do it, Satan will leap out and get you. Steve Vizard called out " Big Deal he just a Stupid Spoon."
But the experience of Timeout in the Girls Home was so much worst it would go up to 75 hours, all your belongings taken cold shower, lemon lice treatment rubbed in hair, baggy clothes wear disposible undies, you lost the right to speak, be in a room sitting on a chair staring at a white wall up to five hours, writing your confession in what you did wrong or doing chores such as brushing the carpet with a comb, cleaning windows with a tissue or mine was scrubbing the dining room floor with a cup of water and a toothbrush up to 11.30pm ( I was 13 years old) while being lectured how I was a failure.
My crime I punch a boy in school in self defense, for years I believed it would had been better that the boy had keep choking /bashing my head against wall than to received the punishment.
I have been in hotly debates regarding ,wooden spoon, smack on the bum, giving Timeout for 44 minutes or under, standing at the wall I understand times have change and rules(which I obey) are in place as it is damaging to a child.
But I will admit , in my own thoughts and only thought which punishment is more bad.

 

[mussopossum]

Such a sad and dire situation for the the child….You never know what goes on behind closed doors…. IMO

From this type of parental behaviour one could suggest that a “fit of rage“ type incident is possible in William’s case….

Good on the media for challenging the suppression orders and finally getting somewhere!

imo

Waking up to this article this morning was shocking. The only thing that worries me with the suppression order being lifted is that any information such as what has been published in The Australian and what may in the future be reported/disclosed could cause humiliation/embarrassment to the child involved. Even though the identities of children are protected, there are / will be so many out there who either know of or know directly the child such as birth family members, friends of the families, etc. I just hope that this does not cause any more damage.

 

[Chrissy74]

Yes that's what I meant. And I would be so glad of a "true timeline". I begin to think the coroner has shelved this indefinitely.

I don’t believe for a second that the coroner has shelved WT like a book half read. I believe the coroner has done her job at getting all the information and has a very good idea what happened to W and for this reason has handed the case back to police to continue their investigation of gathering as much evidence as possible.. And there is plenty of evidence. Time and patience

 

[SLouTh]

Fair and equitable has its limits though IMO. The fosters are not publicly identified. I can think of countless politicians, sports stars, actors etc who have been accused of all sorts of things in the media and have not had the luxury of anonymity.

Fair point…..

 

[JLZ]

I don’t believe for a second that the coroner has shelved WT like a book half read. I believe the coroner has done her job at getting all the information and has a very good idea what happened to W and for this reason has handed the case back to police to continue their investigation of gathering as much evidence as possible.. And there is plenty of evidence. Time and patience

Yes, like that . . . but if she's handed it back to police, will we get to read her report before charges are laid and heard? And if they can't get the evidence, if they do cold the case and wait for something to turn up or forensic technology to improve by a few decades, what then? Will the inquest remain adjourned and the coroner's analysis a secret?

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I haven't been able to read the article. But going from snipits here. It appears IMO that the FM is not equipped to handle difficult behavior. She had issues with WT behavior "was close to giving up or giving in" and these current developments with another foster child.

 

[Chrissy74]

Yes, like that . . . but if she's handed it back to police, will we get to read her report before charges are laid and heard? And if they can't get the evidence, if they do cold the case and wait for something to turn up or forensic technology to improve by a few decades, what then? Will the inquest remain adjourned and the coroner's analysis a secret?

I can’t answer those questions with absolute certainty unfortunately but what I can do is continue to have faith. So that’s what I do.. it’s platforms like this that keep people interested in this case informed and updated and for as long as the public continue to push for answers continue to push for the truth, the police know it’s in their best interest to solve it. That’s the only way I chose to look at it.. im
Not interested in the alternative

 

[Marg944]

I was thinking along the lines of a “snap” behaviour…. Losing control for an instant, rather than prolonged sustained abuse ….. but with possible dire consequences……????? Would a history of such “possible snaps “ in loss of control predispose one to longer more sustained periods as you describe it???

I don’t want this to be the answer for William, that his demise was from someone who was to love and care for him and who he would have had trust in ….but we need to consider the possibility…..

imo

I was thinking of "snap" behaviour also Slouth - perhaps that is why they were eventually charged with stalking also? Perhaps they realised their wrong doings?

 

[Marg944]

Which leads us back to the same old question ... how long has FM had mental difficulties?

If they are more recent they could lead to a (more recent) loss of control. If they have been lifelong or since early adulthood, then they would need to be considered by the Coroner when looking at the whole picture.

imo

Surely a person would be assessed to become a foster carer? If they had mental difficulties, they would not be suitable carers...... especially when there are 2 very young children involved. IMHO

 

[seekingjustice**]

Waking up to this article this morning was shocking. The only thing that worries me with the suppression order being lifted is that any information such as what has been published in The Australian and what may in the future be reported/disclosed could cause humiliation/embarrassment to the child involved. Even though the identities of children are protected, there are / will be so many out there who either know of or know directly the child such as birth family members, friends of the families, etc. I just hope that this does not cause any more damage.

Hopefully the child has a really good support system around her and feels safe and supported. I imagine it must of taken a lot of courage for the child to speak out.

 

[JLZ]

Surely a person would be assessed to become a foster carer? If they had mental difficulties, they would not be suitable carers...... especially when there are 2 very young children involved. IMHO

It's OK to have mental health difficulties but you have to handle them responsibly. Taking it out in tirades on a child, let alone the other allegations, is not acceptable.

 

[inkpink]

The mention of the FD 'grabbing the girls neck' is somewhat eyebrow raising for me....

 

[Chrissy74]

I haven't been able to read the article. But going from snipits here. It appears IMO that the FM is not equipped to handle difficult behavior. She had issues with WT behavior "was close to giving up or giving in" and these current developments with another diminishing and without

It's OK to have mental health difficulties but you have to handle them responsibly. Taking it out in tirades on a child, let alone the other allegations, is not acceptable.

i agree JLZ. However if the mental issues were present prior to the children being in her care and FACS were aware of her condition, how could facs have accurately assessed her capabilities of looking after 2 small children and deemed her to be suitable. Or was it based on the FM expressed desire to have 2 young children in long term care?

 

[SouthAussie]

I have been able to read the paywalled article and It does say in brackets alleged, in reference to the problematic behaviour. And I wonder who stated the behaviour as problematic? Is it a conclusion of the psychologist came up with or was it something foster parents stated?

If it was something foster parents have stated, is it backed up with proof? Cos one could form the opinion it could be a defence mechanism made by the fosters imo

I think that the 'alleged' in that sentence applies to the victim, not to the behaviour.

It says the alleged victims's problematic behaviour, not the victim's alleged problematic behaviour.

imo

 

[T-dawg420]

I think that the 'alleged' in that sentence applies to the victim, not to the behaviour.

imo

I think you are 100% accurate on this, my bad.

i would still like to know if this problematic behaviour was a well known thing or something the foster parents came up with? Cos I still stand by it could be a defence mechanism by the fosters to account for their actions. imo

edit to remove a character/emoji that somehow made its way onto my comment

further edit for spelling, one should not try and websleuth when your cat needs attention lol

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Surely a person would be assessed to become a foster carer? If they had mental difficulties, they would not be suitable carers...... especially when there are 2 very young children involved. IMHO

IMO it’s now in the FPs best interests to have one or both of them deemed mentally/emotionally unfit which will then provide an insanity plee to both cases, and once they know they can’t be prosecuted, the truth about William will be revealed because they have an out to tell the truth without punishment.