Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Couldbe]

MOO - I have entertained the idea of them passing him on and, in my opinion, a couple of events can be connected to make a plausible theory e.g. Ron Chapman's claim to have sighted William up against the window (unrestrained) in the back passenger of a vehicle around 10.45 am.

Question: What would have occurred after that to accommodate William?

..... Was he whisked away overseas?

..... Was he given to someone living here in Australia?

..... Did FFFC pass William over to someone when she drove down Batar Creek Road?

..... Did FMFC take William and pass him over to someone (because FFFC wasn't coping with William's behaviour)?

..... Did FFFC drive down Batar Creek Road and pass William over to the FMFC (out of sight of FFGM)?

..... Wouldn't the Medical Profession have been alerted to keep a look out for him (given he had Asthma)?

..... Is he still alive somewhere and his identity changed; will he have a deep-seated memory of one or two events in his earlier life, and will one day reveal that (His DNA would be on file and could verify a claim)?

His death seems to be the 'opinion' of LE ..... do they have some evidence, and are making sure of constructing a tight theory/case before making an arrest?

 

[Couldbe]

It is expected the “high-intensity” searches will involve hundreds of officers and last several weeks.

Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett said officers would be "looking for the remains of William Tyrrell".

"It's highly likely that if we found something it would be a body. We are looking for the remains of William Tyrrell, no doubt about that," he said.

The renewed and “targeted” search for wt late last yr was based on “evidence obtained in the course of the investigation”.

As much as I would like to believe the latest search was intended to be a discovery of w remains, the locations that were searched and the proximity of those locations to fgm house make it difficult “for me” to believe W remains would be found in areas that were searched by so many police, local volunteers, ses, sniffer dogs, cadaver dogs . Why bury him so close to home knowing the intense searches that would follow once the call went out of a missing child. Ff could have driven anywhere further away to hide W if they really wanted to. The outcome of this search obviously didn’t recover W remains and we still don’t know if there was any evidence found that could conclusively prove W died that morning on that property. There’s also the fact that the coroner has yet to release her written findings from the inquest. Is it because there’s a possibility W is still alive? Or the coroners findings are bound by non publication and suppression orders?
If W was alive and well and living his life with people who love and care for him, well that would have to be a miracle. Imo there is def the possibility that W was passed on by the ff that morning. Everything about W disappearance seems to be timed perfectly.

Chrissy, I feel that all the timing for FFC and MFC could have commenced with the day earlier visit to FFGM.

Would be kind enough to share the other event times that seemed to you to be timed to execute their planned disappearance of William?

Original visit to FFGM changed to a day earlier to be on 11 Sep to surprise FFGM (who had been sick with the 'flu) and William and his sister. This is said to have been possible due to MFC being able to finish his work day earlier.

JMO - My recall of the times of the movements of MFC and FFC as I would bring into the picture are:-
1. Out of bed at around 7.30 am;
2. MFC's vehicle captured at Tennis Courts' CCTV at around 8.40 am (On his return trip towards Benaroon);
3. LE have tracked the Mobile phone of MFC leaving Benaroon at 9.30 am;
4. FFC captured photos on her camera at approx 9.37 am;
5. William's disappearance estimated by LE at between 10.05 am and 10.15 am;
6. William is purported by FFC to have been last seen by her at 10.30 am;
7. MFC sent text to FFC 'home in five' at 10.30 am;
8. Ron Chapman claimed to have seen William unrestrained in the back passenger seat of a landcruiser at 10.45 am;
9. MFC arrived back and jumped out of his vehicle and ran around frantically at 10.35 am;
10. 000 Call made by FFC at 10.05 am;
11. Arrival at Benaroon at 11.06 am by Senior Constable Rowley, who proceeded inside house, while FFC remained out on Benaroon searching .... until called back inside by Rowley at about 11.45 am;

 

[JLZ]

It is expected the “high-intensity” searches will involve hundreds of officers and last several weeks.

Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett said officers would be "looking for the remains of William Tyrrell".

"It's highly likely that if we found something it would be a body. We are looking for the remains of William Tyrrell, no doubt about that," he said.

The renewed and “targeted” search for wt late last yr was based on “evidence obtained in the course of the investigation”.

As much as I would like to believe the latest search was intended to be a discovery of w remains, the locations that were searched and the proximity of those locations to fgm house make it difficult “for me” to believe W remains would be found in areas that were searched by so many police, local volunteers, ses, sniffer dogs, cadaver dogs . Why bury him so close to home knowing the intense searches that would follow once the call went out of a missing child. Ff could have driven anywhere further away to hide W if they really wanted to. The outcome of this search obviously didn’t recover W remains and we still don’t know if there was any evidence found that could conclusively prove W died that morning on that property. There’s also the fact that the coroner has yet to release her written findings from the inquest. Is it because there’s a possibility W is still alive? Or the coroners findings are bound by non publication and suppression orders?
If W was alive and well and living his life with people who love and care for him, well that would have to be a miracle. Imo there is def the possibility that W was passed on by the ff that morning. Everything about W disappearance seems to be timed perfectly.

Chrissy, IMO the recent search area was selected as the low-lying area where not deeply buried remains would most likely end up as a result of natural earth and water movement. I wonder if there are analogous areas they might search on the other side of mountain ridges--where the water runs the other way.

 

[SLouTh]

Chrissy, IMO the recent search area was selected as the low-lying area where not deeply buried remains would most likely end up as a result of natural earth and water movement. I wonder if there are analogous areas they might search on the other side of mountain ridges--where the water runs the other way.

Where do you mean JLZ?? On the map???

 

[JLZ]

Where do you mean JLZ?? On the map???

I hadn't got that far. But if you look at the map, look at Kendall State Forest to start with, it's obvious there's a high area running north-south in the vicinity of Kendall Forest Road, because on the east side there are the beginnings of streams and they run east, and on the west side there are the beginnings of streams and they run west. You can track that high ridge north and south by the pattern of streams. Middle Brother's more complicated, streams running outwards in all directions. If William's remains originated from the west side of Kendall State Forest or the south side of Middle Brother, I don't think they'd end up in the swampy area between Batar Creek Road and the wide section of the Camden Haven River. I don't know where they'd go. The hydrologist might be able to suggest one or two particularly probable areas.

Edit: on the other hand the reasoning (for the choice of the search location) might have been based on the aftermath of flooding.

 

[FromGermany1]

Chrissy, I feel that all the timing for FFC and MFC could have commenced with the day earlier visit to FFGM.

Would be kind enough to share the other event times that seemed to you to be timed to execute their planned disappearance of William?

Original visit to FFGM changed to a day earlier to be on 11 Sep to surprise FFGM (who had been sick with the 'flu) and William and his sister. This is said to have been possible due to MFC being able to finish his work day earlier.

JMO - My recall of the times of the movements of MFC and FFC as I would bring into the picture are:-
1. Out of bed at around 7.30 am;
2. MFC's vehicle captured at Tennis Courts' CCTV at around 8.40 am (On his return trip towards Benaroon);
3. LE have tracked the Mobile phone of MFC leaving Benaroon at 9.30 am;
4. FFC captured photos on her camera at approx 9.37 am;
5. William's disappearance estimated by LE at between 10.05 am and 10.15 am;
6. William is purported by FFC to have been last seen by her at 10.30 am;
7. MFC sent text to FFC 'home in five' at 10.30 am;
8. Ron Chapman claimed to have seen William unrestrained in the back passenger seat of a landcruiser at 10.45 am;
9. MFC arrived back and jumped out of his vehicle and ran around frantically at 10.35 am;
10. 000 Call made by FFC at 10.05 am;
11. Arrival at Benaroon at 11.06 am by Senior Constable Rowley, who proceeded inside house, while FFC remained out on Benaroon searching .... until called back inside by Rowley at about 11.45 am;

My thoughts today:
Would it make sense, listing all things, WHICH WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED on Sept 12th, if something took place with little W through the night before?? As for example .....
No getting up by little W, changing his own nappies.
No cuddling with MFC after changing nappies.
No conflict with FFC re dressing and at the end dressing up with the spiderman suit.
No breakfast with little W.
No biking and no crushing the bike into the garden bed by little W.
No playing/drawing/rolling dice on the deck by little W (although images, I know).
No attempt for tree climbing by FFC/little W.
No running around roaring by little W.
No disappearing of little W from front yard.

Did I leave something out?

Idk, if it would bring us forward. Trying ......

 

[FromGermany1]

Family was in Kendall to help their mother with sorting out stuff before the home sale. Was any of these things used to hide little W in (maybe sedated) and take little W off the property by car? Nobody stated that, but it wouldn't have wondered the neighbours, if some small furniture or "containers" in which form ever left the property by car. Reason: the upcoming move. Which car it was, would be questionable: one of the two cars at the address or a car, driven by a recipient of some stuff (furniture, container). Nobody stated, that there was "some traffic" on the property the night before Sept 12th. But, were neighbours asked about it at all?

 

[Chrissy74]

Chrissy, I feel that all the timing for FFC and MFC could have commenced with the day earlier visit to FFGM.

Would be kind enough to share the other event times that seemed to you to be timed to execute their planned disappearance of William?

Original visit to FFGM changed to a day earlier to be on 11 Sep to surprise FFGM (who had been sick with the 'flu) and William and his sister. This is said to have been possible due to MFC being able to finish his work day earlier.

JMO - My recall of the times of the movements of MFC and FFC as I would bring into the picture are:-
1. Out of bed at around 7.30 am;
2. MFC's vehicle captured at Tennis Courts' CCTV at around 8.40 am (On his return trip towards Benaroon);
3. LE have tracked the Mobile phone of MFC leaving Benaroon at 9.30 am;
4. FFC captured photos on her camera at approx 9.37 am;
5. William's disappearance estimated by LE at between 10.05 am and 10.15 am;
6. William is purported by FFC to have been last seen by her at 10.30 am;
7. MFC sent text to FFC 'home in five' at 10.30 am;
8. Ron Chapman claimed to have seen William unrestrained in the back passenger seat of a landcruiser at 10.45 am;
9. MFC arrived back and jumped out of his vehicle and ran around frantically at 10.35 am;
10. 000 Call made by FFC at 10.05 am;
11. Arrival at Benaroon at 11.06 am by Senior Constable Rowley, who proceeded inside house, while FFC remained out on Benaroon searching .... until called back inside by Rowley at about 11.45 am;

Timeline given by mfc and Ffc from Lia Harris podcast. Every minute of that morning is accounted for by the ff. We now know their stories are conflicting with cctv footage, phone records, phone pings, statements from neighbours, statement from fgm etc…
This timeline is in the fc own words. Cross reference it with the information we have now and I think it’s pretty clear their story was perfectly planned minute for minute


Ffc
7:30-9am
Woke up
Went into living room
Open blinds
Sees cars
Ffc preparing breakfast
Discussion about washing machine
9am-1030am
Kids riding bikes in driveway
L sees car. Who’s that mummy? Don’t know maybe neighbour
After riding bikes kids go back inside
After 10min W wanted to go back outside
L stayed inside with gm
Ffc and W went back outside and played a game mummy monsters
Then back inside
Then out on the patio with crayons and paper to do drawing
Iconic last photos of W were taken
W lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice
Kids and Ffc Went back inside
Ffc asks kids if they want to write messages on cards for opa
Ffc wrote on L card
W didn’t want to write anything so went back outside to porch with gm watching
Ffc and Lindsay soon joined them outside
L tipped crayon box over and dice fell out.
Started to play a game with the dice
W got bored very quickly then rolled around on the grass pretending to be a tiger then went around the side of the house roaring
Ffc yells out to W “can you see daddy’s car? No response

10:30-10:56
Calls out for W no reply
Raced around that yard for maybe 10min
Comes back up to mum and says is W here? Her reply “why would he be here?”.
I can’t find him. He’s gone.
Searches inside the house rooms cupboards
Tells her mum to stay there while she went down the road to AMS house they began searching the estates then goes back to house mfc just got home “is W with you?” No
Ffc Goes back to AMS house and they both heads down the street to neighbours and bus stop
Comes back up says to mfc I’m calling the police.
Calls 000
Police arrive

Mfc
6:30am-9am
Wake up
W watching fireman Sam on iPhone
W sister hears the giggles goes into their room
Kids Running around
Getting toys out
Preparing breakfast
Getting dressed and organised for online meeting
Last memory ff recalls seeing wt take out toys from cupboard
Drives to Lakewood for conference call
10:19-10:35
Fills prescription at pharmacy
Texts Ffc home in 5min
10:35-10:56
Drove back to fgm from near lauriton drove in the garage
Wife appeared with wt sister
Is w with you?
No he’s not with me I’ve only just got back
Mfc begins his search doesn’t recall seeing any neighbours on the street takes about 15min to search property

 

[Megnut]

I'm going to ask this again. The female caregiver took a drive that morning and was observed leaning out (the car window?), so odd that the passing (oncoming?) did or didn't stop to see if she needed help.

Could she have opened her car door at a sewer grate, lowered Wm in and was throwing gloves or something into the same, just as the other driver came upon her?

Why did she stop  there? What appeal or purpose did that spot hold?

Leaning out the window, looking out/calling out for Wm... that smacks to me as a presplain. What did that driver nearly catch her doing????

If we satellite that stretch of road, will we find curb, gutter and a sewer grate?

Consider: if that notable event (the driver seeing her), would she have ever included mention of that drive? (She certainly didn't, for the emergency operator.)

Why?

I fear the answer.

I fear it and I think it explains why we're still here today. It's why Wm is missing.

JMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

I'm going to ask this again. The female caregiver took a drive that morning and was observed leaning out (the car window?), so odd that the passing (oncoming?) did or didn't stop to see if she needed help.

Could she have opened her car door at a sewer grate, lowered Wm in and was throwing gloves or something into the same, just as the other driver came upon her?

Why did she stop  there? What appeal or purpose did that spot hold?

Leaning out the window, looking out/calling out for Wm... that smacks to me as a presplain. What did that driver nearly catch her doing????

If we satellite that stretch of road, will we find curb, gutter and a sewer grate?

Consider: if that notable event (the driver seeing her), would she have ever included mention of that drive? (She certainly didn't, for the emergency operator.)

Why?

I fear the answer.

I fear it and I think it explains why we're still here today. It's why Wm is missing.

JMO

I like this scenario. Good thinking

 

[JLZ]

I'm going to ask this again. The female caregiver took a drive that morning and was observed leaning out (the car window?), so odd that the passing (oncoming?) did or didn't stop to see if she needed help.

Could she have opened her car door at a sewer grate, lowered Wm in and was throwing gloves or something into the same, just as the other driver came upon her?

Why did she stop  there? What appeal or purpose did that spot hold?

Leaning out the window, looking out/calling out for Wm... that smacks to me as a presplain. What did that driver nearly catch her doing????

If we satellite that stretch of road, will we find curb, gutter and a sewer grate?

Consider: if that notable event (the driver seeing her), would she have ever included mention of that drive? (She certainly didn't, for the emergency operator.)

Why?

I fear the answer.

I fear it and I think it explains why we're still here today. It's why Wm is missing.

JMO

BBM1. Certainly no curbs or gutters. There are drains. BBM2. I disagree. Since William is still missing, he was not deposited so close to home--unless a second culprit found and took him for his own purposes.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. For one thing a driver opening the driver-side door is positioned over the middle of the road. She might be able to throw something across the road, not drop something down a drain. For another thing, how would what someone nearly did, but didn't do, in your scenario, explain what happened to William and why he hasn't been found?

 

[Couldbe]

This is not really an opinion about FFC’s 000 call, but describing my thoughts about making such a call:

Unless it is possible to have knowledge of how a 000 call actually functions OR a call has been made before, the first time in phoning and reporting a missing child would be an inexperienced communication …. and with the Operator.

From my perspective - Examining and forming an opinion about FFC’s handling of the call is best left to the ‘Experts’. Only part of the audio of that call has been made available to the general Public, so what we do hear could be out of context in the total conversation.
What I do find strange is that FFC didn’t remain with Senior Constable Rowley but stayed out in the street …. It seems that she left it to the FFGM / MFC who were at the house, until she was summoned back around half-hour later to talk to the LE.

 

[Megnut]

BBM1. Certainly no curbs or gutters. There are drains. BBM2. I disagree. Since William is still missing, he was not deposited so close to home--unless a second culprit found and took him for his own purposes.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. For one thing a driver opening the driver-side door is positioned over the middle of the road. She might be able to throw something across the road, not drop something down a drain. For another thing, how would what someone nearly did, but didn't do, in your scenario, explain what happened to William and why he hasn't been found?

I'm not wedded to any theory but I ask myself why she stopped where she did.

We don't know how she was oriented but in my opinion it's possible she was stopped, parked against traffic.

The 'nearly' part refers to the other driver. If he had passed that way a minute or two or five minutes earlier, what might he have seen? (If she hadn't been seen, would she ever have mentioned the drive? I have many questions.)

That drive strikes me as a huge gap. If she were going to look for Wm, I don't think she'd hide that information from the foster grandma. She'd want her to be looking IMO and she'd want to make sure she kept the foster daughter close! (I think she achieved the same end but for different reasons with the tea and paper, banking on the foster grandma to lose track of time.)

I think it's also entirely possible that Wm was in fact removed from the general area. But not by an abductor.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Right across Batar Creek Road (directly opposite Benaroon Drive) a large "lifestyle" estate is going in. Looks like it will be an over-50s community, or similar. It is to be called Woodglen. Official address is 79 Batar Creek Road.

They plan to put a roundabout in at the end of Benaroon Drive as an additional entry to this estate.

Google shows that groundwork has started for this development. Image date 2022.


Google maps


I wonder if the Nov/Dec 2021 search was needed to make sure that William was not in that location, before a swimming pool, bowling greens, sewer systems, other services, and many homes fill that location.


Here is the Port Macquarie Hastings council document about the development. It shows the plan for the development ... it is quite huge.

Agenda of Development Assessment Panel - 28 November 2018

This is the artist's impression ..... Sold Development Site & Land at 79 Batar Creek Road, Kendall, NSW 2439 - realcommercial

 

[Mauig’ma]

Right across Batar Creek Road (directly opposite Benaroon Drive) a large "lifestyle" estate is going in. Looks like it will be an over-50s community, or similar. It is to be called Woodglen. Official address is 79 Batar Creek Road.

They plan to put a roundabout in at the end of Benaroon Drive as an additional entry to this estate.

Google shows that groundwork has started for this development. Image date 2022.

View attachment 354856
Google maps


I wonder if the Nov/Dec 2021 search was needed to make sure that William was not in that location, before a swimming pool, bowling greens, sewer systems, other services, and many homes fill that location.


Here is the Port Macquarie Hastings council document about the development. It shows the plan for the development ... it is quite huge.
View attachment 354860

Agenda of Development Assessment Panel - 28 November 2018

This is the artist's impression ..... Sold Development Site & Land at 79 Batar Creek Road, Kendall, NSW 2439 - realcommercial

Maybe this is when William’s remains will be unearthed. I’m hopeful

 

[Megnut]

Right across Batar Creek Road (directly opposite Benaroon Drive) a large "lifestyle" estate is going in. Looks like it will be an over-50s community, or similar. It is to be called Woodglen. Official address is 79 Batar Creek Road.

They plan to put a roundabout in at the end of Benaroon Drive as an additional entry to this estate.

Google shows that groundwork has started for this development. Image date 2022.

View attachment 354856
Google maps


I wonder if the Nov/Dec 2021 search was needed to make sure that William was not in that location, before a swimming pool, bowling greens, sewer systems, other services, and many homes fill that location.


Here is the Port Macquarie Hastings council document about the development. It shows the plan for the development ... it is quite huge.
View attachment 354860

Agenda of Development Assessment Panel - 28 November 2018

This is the artist's impression ..... Sold Development Site & Land at 79 Batar Creek Road, Kendall, NSW 2439 - realcommercial

If Wm is somewhere there, I hope this project locates him.

If Wm is somewhere there, I hope this project doesn't bury him forever.

If he's not there, wherever he is, may he be found soon.

The timing and urgency of the excavation in search of his remains makes much sense, in light of this project.

JMO

 

[JLZ]

Maybe this is when William’s remains will be unearthed. I’m hopeful

In my opinion, there's no way he was buried in what was open grazing land just opposite Benaroon Drive. The dam areas are/were a possibility, though I understand it was all searched in the first weeks, in case he'd wandered and drowned.

There are so many forests within a few kilometres. Bago Bluff National Park is huge and doesn't seem to have had any attention.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Can someone please bring forward a map of all the searches past and present? Tyia

 

[Awakening]

I'm going to ask this again. The female caregiver took a drive that morning and was observed leaning out (the car window?), so odd that the passing (oncoming?) did or didn't stop to see if she needed help.

Could she have opened her car door at a sewer grate, lowered Wm in and was throwing gloves or something into the same, just as the other driver came upon her?

Why did she stop  there? What appeal or purpose did that spot hold?

Leaning out the window, looking out/calling out for Wm... that smacks to me as a presplain. What did that driver nearly catch her doing????

If we satellite that stretch of road, will we find curb, gutter and a sewer grate?

Consider: if that notable event (the driver seeing her), would she have ever included mention of that drive? (She certainly didn't, for the emergency operator.)

Why?

I fear the answer.

I fear it and I think it explains why we're still here today. It's why Wm is missing.

JMO

I think this is absolutely key to the case

 

[Couldbe]

I'm not wedded to any theory but I ask myself why she stopped where she did.

We don't know how she was oriented but in my opinion it's possible she was stopped, parked against traffic.

The 'nearly' part refers to the other driver. If he had passed that way a minute or two or five minutes earlier, what might he have seen? (If she hadn't been seen, would she ever have mentioned the drive? I have many questions.)

That drive strikes me as a huge gap. If she were going to look for Wm, I don't think she'd hide that information from the foster grandma. She'd want her to be looking IMO and she'd want to make sure she kept the foster daughter close! (I think she achieved the same end but for different reasons with the tea and paper, banking on the foster grandma to lose track of time.)

I think it's also entirely possible that Wm was in fact removed from the general area. But not by an abductor.

JMO

Megnut, is it known what time it was when FFC made that drive?