Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[nightrider17]

I agree "Couldbe" with this statement being odd?

What I do find strange is that FFC didn’t remain with Senior Constable Rowley but stayed out in the street …. It seems that she left it to the FFGM / MFC who were at the house, until she was summoned back around half-hour later to talk to the LE.

I find that strange - considering the Police officer would get better clarification of what happened from FFC who was there all morning than MFC - considering it happened in his absence. I find that odd as well. Especially if when she made the 000 call she had moved on to the idea of more abduction than wandering off.

Everything can be explained - stress, not thinking straight, caught up with other neighbours - but the logic is patchy?? I would have thought it was crucial to talk initially with the FFC about the lead up to him going missing. Isn't that the crucial time for relevant information. You have rung the police to have them assist would't speaking with them be crucial?? MOO

 

[JLZ]

I agree "Couldbe" with this statement being odd?

What I do find strange is that FFC didn’t remain with Senior Constable Rowley but stayed out in the street …. It seems that she left it to the FFGM / MFC who were at the house, until she was summoned back around half-hour later to talk to the LE.

I find that strange - considering the Police officer would get better clarification of what happened from FFC who was there all morning than MFC - considering it happened in his absence. I find that odd as well. Especially if when she made the 000 call she had moved on to the idea of more abduction than wandering off.

Everything can be explained - stress, not thinking straight, caught up with other neighbours - but the logic is patchy?? I would have thought it was crucial to talk initially with the FFC about the lead up to him going missing. Isn't that the crucial time for relevant information. You have rung the police to have them assist would't speaking with them be crucial?? MOO

Perhaps she did explain the situation and they had to look things over themselves before being ready to interview her more carefully? No point hanging around until they were ready to take background when she could be finding William playing in a shed or stuck up a tree or injured and unconscious.

 

[Couldbe]

Perhaps she did explain the situation and they had to look things over themselves before being ready to interview her more carefully? No point hanging around until they were ready to take background when she could be finding William playing in a shed or stuck up a tree or injured and unconscious.

JMO - FFC had already searched (and taken a drive in the Mazda) before seeking help via her 000 call.

Maybe she did not see the point in hanging around with LE if they didn't require background details for their search efforts until some time later.

Given that FFC has said (when she first discovered William missing) that she immediately suspected abduction, her continued searching for him playing in a shed or stuck up a tree (when he had told her 'too high Mummy' when she had placed him in a tree) may be worth meaningful noting. MOO

 

[nightrider17]

The 000 operator is just relaying on to the police after they have assessed if the criteria for a police to attend is warranted or justified.

I find that really perplexing - you call 000 for help - wouldn't you need to discuss with them when they arrived - the course of action or retell the events of the morning prior to W going missing.

I find it hard to believe they would come to the residence and go into searching mode without going over the details with all those who were present when the event occurred.

The FGM and MFC are only relevant to parts of the timeline. Wouldn't the key person be FFC???


So wouldn't the actual police want to discuss the matter with those immediately present when the event occurred before jumping into a course of action. MOO

 

[JLZ]

JMO - FFC had already searched (and taken a drive in the Mazda) before seeking help via her 000 call.

Maybe she did not see the point in hanging around with LE if they didn't require background details for their search efforts until some time later.

Given that FFC has said (when she first discovered William missing) that she immediately suspected abduction, her continued searching for him playing in a shed or stuck up a tree (when he had told her 'too high Mummy' when she had placed him in a tree) may be worth meaningful noting. MOO

BBM, those examples are my interpolations, not what I've heard her say.

William hadn't been found and there were more places to search, also the same places to search again perhaps. It would be hard to stop unless police said no you mustn't leave our sight.

 

[Sillybilly]

For one thing a driver opening the driver-side door is positioned over the middle of the road. She might be able to throw something across the road, not drop something down a drain.

<rsbm>

Do we know if that car is right or left hand drive?

 

[JLZ]

<rsbm>

Do we know if that car is right or left hand drive?

I don't think I've ever seen a left hand drive. It would be very unusual.

Edit: video here of the car being seized; have a look at around the 30 to 35 second mark when the guy opens the right side door. I believe I can see the steering wheel.

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'

A grey Mazda which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother was allegedly used by his foster mother near the spot on the NSW mid north coast where the toddler disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Megnut]

Megnut, is it known what time it was when FFC made that drive?

I don't know the time but I'm hopeful LE does.

I  think it occurred while the foster grandma and foster daughter were occupied with tea and crayons and prior to the search inside the house.

I think the timeclock for Wm's "gone missing" started when she returned from that drive.

There might be a second window for that drive -- after the male caregiver arrived home but before calling 000 -- but I place it earlier.

JMO

 

[bearbear]

<rsbm>

Do we know if that car is right or left hand drive?

i think only some american cars imported to australia have left hand drive?

 

[SouthAussie]

In my opinion, there's no way he was buried in what was open grazing land just opposite Benaroon Drive. The dam areas are/were a possibility, though I understand it was all searched in the first weeks, in case he'd wandered and drowned.

There are so many forests within a few kilometres. Bago Bluff National Park is huge and doesn't seem to have had any attention.

I think William is out there in the forests somewhere. Likely somewhere within a 30km/20mi range from Benaroon Drive.
I remember from either the Karen Ristevski case or the Jill Meagher case that is the most common area for a deceased person to be found from their location.
I don't think any of the FF took him there. And, sadly, I don't think that he lived for very long after he disappeared.

Though, I don't discount the deathbed confession. Because if that wasn't William, then who was it? And when did that 300km journey happen?

imo

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't think I've ever seen a left hand drive. It would be very unusual.

Edit: video here of the car being seized; have a look at around the 30 to 35 second mark when the guy opens the right side door. I believe I can see the steering wheel.

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'

A grey Mazda which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother was allegedly used by his foster mother near the spot on the NSW mid north coast where the toddler disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thanks JLZ. I've since found that right hand drive is required in NSW for 'regular' vehicles (with a few exceptions) under 4.5 tonnes and less than 30 years old.

Under the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Regulation 2017, a motor vehicle with a GVM not over 4.5 tonnes must have right-hand drive if the vehicle is: Less than 30 years old Required by the law to have right-hand drive.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't think I've ever seen a left hand drive. It would be very unusual.

The only time I've ever seen left hand drives were when the Horseless Carriage meeting was here a few years ago and a group brought their cars over from the US. I think they were only allowed to drive on designated routes and a parade through town.

 

[Couldbe]

I think William is out there in the forests somewhere. Likely somewhere within a 30km/20mi range from Benaroon Drive.
I remember from either the Karen Ristevski case or the Jill Meagher case that is the most common area for a deceased person to be found from their location.
I don't think any of the FF took him there. And, sadly, I don't think that he lived for very long after he disappeared.

Though, I don't discount the deathbed confession. Because if that wasn't William, then who was it? And when did that 300km journey happen?

imo

JMO – It seems that the person, that you are referring to, did not become a focus following questioning at the time, and maybe slipped through Jubelin and he did not become a target.

Area where William Tyrrell vanished is home to EIGHTEEN sex offenders
“Throughout the investigation Jubelin spoke to 18 known sex offenders who lived among the acre blocks and rural properties within a 30km radius of Benaroon Drive.”

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO – It seems that the person, that you are referring to, did not become a focus following questioning at the time, and maybe slipped through Jubelin and he did not become a target.

Area where William Tyrrell vanished is home to EIGHTEEN sex offenders
“Throughout the investigation Jubelin spoke to 18 known sex offenders who lived among the acre blocks and rural properties within a 30km radius of Benaroon Drive.”

Jubes has always thought that the answer is in the files. When he was being briefed on the case by Hans Rupp, he said:

"Most likely, the answer is already somewhere among the hundreds of reports and witness statements on eagle.i.
The answer is always there, I think. You just have to find it."

"But the failure to treat this at least as a potential abduction early on has made this work harder. Not least because the hundreds of people who helped with the search, thinking William was lost, were given free access to the road outside the house where he went missing, meaning they would have trampled over any forensic evidence.

Nor do we have complete records of who took part in the search itself, among them SES volunteers, surf lifesavers and even a local pony club on their horses.

This won’t be easy to take over."

Source: I Catch Killers, chapter What Other Options Have You Got? Kindle version.


(The excerpt I have quoted is also contained in this paywalled article, for those who can access the article.
Gary Jubelin I Catch Killers book extract: William Tyrrell mistakes and why the case hasn’t been cracked )

 

[JLZ]

I think William is out there in the forests somewhere. Likely somewhere within a 30km/20mi range from Benaroon Drive.
I remember from either the Karen Ristevski case or the Jill Meagher case that is the most common area for a deceased person to be found from their location.
I don't think any of the FF took him there. And, sadly, I don't think that he lived for very long after he disappeared.

Though, I don't discount the deathbed confession. Because if that wasn't William, then who was it? And when did that 300km journey happen?

imo

I find the nurse Okpegbue's story implausible. She said RP complained to her of being harassed by visitors about what he then told her, his journey with "Frank" (edit, correction: "my best mate"), in April 2019. She said she told her supervisor Carol but I haven't seen any confirmation of that. Then in July 2019 she heard from another nurse that police were talking to RP about FA with respect to William Tyrrell. She then told the other nurse what she said happened in April. Now my theory is that she made it up on the spot. The other nurse told the supervisor and Okpegbue was then summoned to talk to police. But RP never repeated that particular story to police or anyone else. Since police were talking to him (in July; there's no information about whether they'd already been hassling him in April) they must have thought he might know something useful, something incriminating, about FA; but why not? It's a reasonable avenue to explore.

William Tyrrell inquest: Nurse's statement about patient's confession

This is the bombshell statement a nurse made to the inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance, telling how a dying man made a chilling confession with his head rested on her shoulder.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JBowie]

The only time I've ever seen left hand drives were when the Horseless Carriage meeting was here a few years ago and a group brought their cars over from the US. I think they were only allowed to drive on designated routes and a parade through town.

Some commercial vehicles, such as road sweepers, are dual drive.

As for the rules in NSW:

Left-hand drive vehicles and conversions

Find out which left-hand drive historic vehicles need signage and which left to right-hand drive converted vehicles need certification to be registered.

www.nsw.gov.au

 

[Chrissy74]

Megnut, is it known what time it was when FFC made that drive?

2 key questions that haven’t been accounted for

1) what time did mfc leave Benaroon drive?
8:40am? 9:30am? Was it 1 drive or 2?
2) what time did Ffc drive out of Benaroon drive?
Just after W went missing? After mfc returned? After police arrived?

 

[Couldbe]

2 key questions that haven’t been accounted for

1) what time did mfc leave Benaroon drive?
8:40am? 9:30am? Was it 1 drive or 2?
2) what time did Ffc drive out of Benaroon drive?
Just after W went missing? After mfc returned? After police arrived?

Chrissy, I thought that it had been reported somewhere that Senior Constable Rowley had noticed that the bonnet of FFGM's Mazda was still warm when he arrived ..... if Rowley had noticed that, then maybe it can be discounted that the FFC's drive occurred after Police arrived ....

 

[Chrissy74]

This extract from the LH podcast
It’s seems the fFc has doubled up on her version of the timeline that morning. Was that to fill in time when she took that drive to Barak creek rd.
Is it possible that L went back outside “with grandma watching” after writing message on her card and W stayed inside with Ffc . Ffc and W leave Benaroon drive and only Ffc returns. When she returns she says to fgm “Is W Here?” Fgm replies “why would he be here” that’s a reasonable response in that situation

Then back inside
Then out on the patio with crayons and paper to do drawing
Iconic last photos of W were taken
W lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice
Kids and Ffc Went back inside
Ffc asks kids if they want to write messages on cards for opa
Ffc wrote on L card
W didn’t want to write anything so went back outside to porch with gm watching
Ffc and Lindsay soon joined them outside
L tipped crayon box over and dice fell out.
Started to play a game with the dice
William got bored very quickly then rolled around on the grass pretending to be a tiger then went around the side of the house roaring

 

[Chrissy74]

Chrissy, I thought that it had been reported somewhere that Senior Constable Rowley had noticed that the bonnet of FFGM's Mazda was still warm when he arrived ..... if Rowley had noticed that, then maybe it can be discounted that the FFC's drive occurred after Police arrived ....

Thanks Couldbe good to know. Seems the drive took place closer to 10am (time Detective Beecroft gave at inquest and time the Crabbs heard a car). If that drive took roughly 25min, half hr then it fits in with Ffc time of w missing from 10:30 (the time when Ffc asked fgm “is W here”)