Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[SLouTh]

https://m.youtube.com › watchAUDIO_2GB_9_Chris Smith talks to William Tyrrell's parents_September 18 ...

2:50min

Thanks so much … I would never have thought to listen in there for that information ..….

Do you think that FM may have mixed up her story there??? With what she said to FF when he arrived home???

There seem to be so many versions of the story…. Interestingly that version doesn’t mention the drive either???

 

[Megnut]

Thanks so much … I would never have thought to listen in there for that information ..….

Do you think that FM may have mixed up her story there??? With what she said to FF when he arrived home???

There seem to be so many versions of the story…. Interestingly that version doesn’t mention the drive either???

I think it's what was exchanged between the female caregiver and the foster grandma after the female caregiver returned from her secret drive.

i think that's where the missing half hour went. (I imagine that the foster grandma believed that the female caregiver had caught up to Wm and they were together, hence no deep worry, just a surprise not to find them where she expected to be. I imagine her sentence to be, why would he be here? I thought he was with you. Has he been lost this whole time?)

JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

Thanks so much … I would never have thought to listen in there for that information ..….

Do you think that FM may have mixed up her story there??? With what she said to FF when he arrived home???

There seem to be so many versions of the story…. Interestingly that version doesn’t mention the drive either???

Ffc - “is he here”
Fgm - “why would he be here?”

Why wouldn’t he be there??????? He was playing “only only 2 - 3 meters away.” So why wouldn’t he be there.. W may have been hiding when Ffc was looking and then just reappeared “playing the daddy tiger” game of hiding and reappearing.. So again I ask why wouldn’t W be there??????
A response in those circumstances would be more like “is he here” “no I haven’t seen him, he hasn’t come back up here”.
NOT why would he be here

 

[Chrissy74]

Y

I think it's what was exchanged between the female caregiver and the foster grandma after the female caregiver returned from her secret drive.

i think that's where the missing half hour went. (I imagine that the foster grandma believed that the female caregiver had caught up to Wm and they were together, hence no deep worry, just a surprise not to find them where she expected to be. I imagine her sentence to be, why would he be here? I thought he was with you. Has he been lost this whole time?)

JMO

Yes Megnut I agree. Why would he be there? Perhaps that’s because he wasn’t there. Fgm must have thought both Ffc and W were together somewhere else in or around or the house but def not on the back veranda with nanna and sister. IMO the drive Ffc took to “batar creek rd” was shortly after the last photo of W was taken at 9:37am and it wasn’t a drive to look for W but a drive with W to move him on. Hence why there were no screams and nothing heard

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ffc - “is he here”
Fgm - “why would he be here?”

Why wouldn’t he be there??????? He was playing “only only 2 - 3 meters away.” So why wouldn’t he be there.. W may have been hiding when Ffc was looking and then just reappeared “playing the daddy tiger” game of hiding and reappearing.. So again I ask why wouldn’t W be there??????
A response in those circumstances would be more like “is he here” “no I haven’t seen him, he hasn’t come back up here”.
NOT why would he be here

Thanks for providing the audio.

It is interesting how we each interpret things differently.

The FGM, imo, sounds defensive in the retelling by the FM of their exchange, the FM didn’t immediately say William is missing,‘I can’t find him’, she asks FGM questions, who, it appears, was momentarily confused/stunned why her daughter is asking where William is, she’s asking for clarification, there are people who respond this way, it’s not unusual. She would’ve heard FM calling William, so if he was with her, she’d say, ‘it’s alright, he’s here!’ But that didn’t happen, so it went the way it did.
I’ve had those same exchanges many times, over missing children, pets and items, it’s normal, imo. It’s a defensive and instinctive response, like, why would I know, I’m just sitting here, then, a person springs into action when the realisation of what’s been said hits home, it’s an unreal situation, it’s one of those moments, ‘how could he vanish?!’ ‘What you‘re saying, asking, doesn’t make sense!?’
After saying all that, I don’t find this back and forth brief conversation, suspicious, I also don’t believe the FM has passed WT onto someone else, this theory has me very confused as it keeps cropping up without much substance to it. I’d be interested how it first began.

“I raced down there and I raced back up again and..and I think Mum must have heard me yelling out for William, because she’s standing up, and I walk back around to where we were sitting and she’s standing, and I just said,“Is he here?” And she said, “why would he be here?” And I said, “ Well, I can’t find him” and she said, “what do you mean, why can’t you find him?” and I said, “He’s gone!”

 

[FromGermany1]

It's only 26 seconds. HTH

 

[Couldbe]

Just a reminder of what has been alleged:

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'
“The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

The foster father was away from the house having an online business meeting when William vanished. “

JMO – If it was part of a plan for FFC to take that drive, then she could have had already retrieved the keys to the Mazda (from the kitchen bench) earlier that morning, and that is why FFGM wasn’t aware of that happening ….. especially when considering she was sitting immediately outside of her kitchen bench (unless FFC quietly sneaked there to retrieve them).

 

[Chrissy74]

Thanks for providing the audio.

It is interesting how we each interpret things differently.

The FGM, imo, sounds defensive in the retelling by the FM of their exchange, the FM didn’t immediately say William is missing,‘I can’t find him’, she asks FGM questions, who, it appears, was momentarily confused/stunned why her daughter is asking where William is, she’s asking for clarification, there are people who respond this way, it’s not unusual. She would’ve heard FM calling William, so if he was with her, she’d say, ‘it’s alright, he’s here!’ But that didn’t happen, so it went the way it did.
I’ve had those same exchanges many times, over missing children, pets and items, it’s normal, imo. It’s a defensive and instinctive response, like, why would I know, I’m just sitting here, then, a person springs into action when the realisation of what’s been said hits home, it’s an unreal situation, it’s one of those moments, ‘how could he vanish?!’ ‘What you‘re saying, asking, doesn’t make sense!?’
After saying all that, I don’t find this back and forth brief conversation, suspicious, I also don’t believe the FM has passed WT onto someone else, this theory has me very confused as it keeps cropping up without much substance to it. I’d be interested how it first began.

Why would fgm be momentarily confused/stunned with Ffc asking the question is W here? Only 5min prior W had ran around the right side of the house playing daddy tiger roaring then reappearing then running off roaring again until his roar was no longer heard. Ffc goes off to look for W and fgm states that in her walkthrough so I can’t see why that question would cause confusion. W was playing only 2/3 metres away so you would think that there’s still the possibility he could be there somewhere. Why be defensive in this type of scenario. A child is presumably missing. Also interesting how when asked what time W went missing there was no response by Ffc

 

[SouthAussie]

Just a reminder of what has been alleged:

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'
“The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

The foster father was away from the house having an online business meeting when William vanished. “

JMO – If it was part of a plan for FFC to take that drive, then she could have had already retrieved the keys to the Mazda (from the kitchen bench) earlier that morning, and that is why FFGM wasn’t aware of that happening ….. especially when considering she was sitting immediately outside of her kitchen bench (unless FFC quietly sneaked there to retrieve them).

I think if there was any plan to dispose of William by those who loved him, there would have been a lot more time allowed in the plan.

That is the thing that makes all of these unusual (imo) theories not fit. Who would allow themselves such a brief time period in which to dispose of a child?

imo

 

[Megnut]

Dbm duplicate

 

[Megnut]

Just a reminder of what has been alleged:

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'
“The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

The foster father was away from the house having an online business meeting when William vanished. “

JMO – If it was part of a plan for FFC to take that drive, then she could have had already retrieved the keys to the Mazda (from the kitchen bench) earlier that morning, and that is why FFGM wasn’t aware of that happening ….. especially when considering she was sitting immediately outside of her kitchen bench (unless FFC quietly sneaked there to retrieve them).

I don't think she had to sneak. I think there's an intentional repetition of events, designed to confuse the foster grandma.

My speculation:

Wm was playing, Wm left the deck.

Female caregiver notes Wm is quiet. IMO she either discovers an accidental death or accidentally facilitates it. Bundles him into the boot.

Deja vu.

Brews tea. Sits on the deck. Announces Wm is too quiet AGAIN. Now with keys goes around the side of the house.

Leaves in the car.

Foster grandma notes a passage of time, goes to look for Wm and the female caregiver. Surprised to find neither. Might engage with the neighbor. Perhaps returns to the deck

Female caregiver returns to the deck -- or at least to the foster grandma, asking if he's here. Certain that Wm was with the female caregiver this ensuing time, she reacts with surprise -- why are you asking me? I've been asking where both of you went.

Female caregiver then enlists the foster grandma in the charade of searching the house-- as if Wm has been missing for just five minutes.

JMO

 

[JLZ]

Just a reminder of what has been alleged:

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'
“The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

The foster father was away from the house having an online business meeting when William vanished. “

JMO – If it was part of a plan for FFC to take that drive, then she could have had already retrieved the keys to the Mazda (from the kitchen bench) earlier that morning, and that is why FFGM wasn’t aware of that happening ….. especially when considering she was sitting immediately outside of her kitchen bench (unless FFC quietly sneaked there to retrieve them).

I don't think it's been established that FGM wasn't aware of the drive. If she never mentioned it, and it seems she didn't, that could be for a number of reasons.

If the drive was after FFC had told FGM that William was missing, FFC could easily have grabbed the keys off the bench without FGM noticing, since (according to FFC in the just linked audio) they were running in and out of the house many times searching before she went across to AMS.

All these versions. In this one, FFC is searching down the end of the street with AMS and another neighbour (presumably Lydene) even before MFC gets home. But according to other information, Lydene didn't get involved until an hour-plus later (11:30). One part of me says OK her recollection's a bit scrambled, understandably, but another part says she has no particular preference for saying what's true.

 

[JLZ]

I think if there was any plan to dispose of William by those who loved him, there would have been a lot more time allowed in the plan.

That is the thing that makes all of these unusual (imo) theories not fit. Who would allow themselves such a brief time period in which to dispose of a child?

imo

But you're supposing that the time for calling police was set beforehand. She called them when she was ready. If the (hypothetical) plan had taken another half-hour to carry out, she could have called them at 11:30.

 

[Megnut]

I think if there was any plan to dispose of William by those who loved him, there would have been a lot more time allowed in the plan.

That is the thing that makes all of these unusual (imo) theories not fit. Who would allow themselves such a brief time period in which to dispose of a child?

imo

I am assuming the female caregiver is a POI with good reason. So starting from that position, I don't think this was planned at all. I think tensions were high and we are now privy to that very state.

I think Wm was a happy, bright, busy boy -- and more work than they'd bargained for.

I think the iconic photo and the roaring and the Mommy Monster, Daddy Tiger details were constructs, and made for a compelling diversion. And the media ate it up.

I think it's very possible Wm fell or jumped or thought he could fly, unaware of the height differential. Or he fell over backwards. Or he choked on dice.

I'm a mom, that photo looks EXACTLY like show me what's in your mouth.

I don't automatically believe she was taking photos for a future scrapbook. But she MAY have been attempting to document Wm's behavior for review or to show the male caregiver. I. E. Wm being belligerent, not rolling dice correctly, etc. I think she was wound tight, with unrealistic expectations.

So.... if Wm suddenly had catastrophic injuries (he could've been hung up by his cape, by accident and asphyxiated...

She would've had mere minutes to react. Most parents are DESPERATE to resuscitate, even when it's beyond too late, but there may have been other pressures at play here. Marital issues (deleted texts), perfectionism, losing the foster daughter. If Wm was beyond recovery, she might have decided to make up a narrative, believing it would save her image, her foster status, her marriage or maybe all three.

Her first act IMO hide Wm quickly.

Second act, calmly set the foster grandma and foster daughter into tasks that would keep them occupied indefinitely.

Third, perhaps gather a quick disguise, drive away. Return without Wm, never mention the drive, commence looking for Wm with the foster grandma, as if  Wm just went missing.

IMO she says it, he went missing 5 minutes prior to the joint "seaching" --

But IMO he'd been "missing" for 30 minutes or so.

I can imagine her saying, no, Mother, it wqs only a few minutes, remember, I made you tea, Wm was roaring.

I very much would like to know just how many -- or how detailed -- the foster daughter's drawings were. Bet she wore down some crayons.

It wasn't five minutes.

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

But you're supposing that the time for calling police was set beforehand. She called them when she was ready. If the (hypothetical) plan had taken another half-hour to carry out, she could have called them at 11:30.

Exactly ..... after however long it took for 'mission' to be accomplished. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

But you're supposing that the time for calling police was set beforehand. She called them when she was ready. If the (hypothetical) plan had taken another half-hour to carry out, she could have called them at 11:30.

No, I am not supposing that, but perhaps others are. Seeing that a plan is being spoken about.

If all of these people are in on a plan to dispose of William - who they had loved and cared for, for practically all of his life - they certainly could have thought of another plan that would be more believable. imo

To imagine that this little boy was alive and happy, running around with his sister, then suddenly his FM found him dead, chucked him in the car, and dropped him in the bush at the end of her mother's street seems highly unlikely.

imo

 

[Couldbe]

No, I am not supposing that, but perhaps others are. Seeing that a plan is being spoken about.

If all of these people are in on a plan to dispose of William - who they had loved and cared for, for practically all of his life - they certainly could have thought of another plan that would be more believable. imo

To imagine that this little boy was alive and happy, running around with his sister, then suddenly his FM found him dead, chucked him in the car, and dropped him in the bush at the end of her mother's street seems highly unlikely.

imo

SA, for many of us it has been so very hard to imagine and, for many, didn't ever cross our minds that FFC or MFC would have been involved in William's disappearance for many years. It has been the naming of FFC as a POI that has prompted looking more closely at the events of 'that morning' to see if 'all might have not been as it seemed'.

In looking and theorizing, part of that is accepting that maybe we have been duped.

 

[JLZ]

No, I am not supposing that, but perhaps others are. Seeing that a plan is being spoken about.

If all of these people are in on a plan to dispose of William - who they had loved and cared for, for practically all of his life - they certainly could have thought of another plan that would be more believable. imo

To imagine that this little boy was alive and happy, running around with his sister, then suddenly his FM found him dead, chucked him in the car, and dropped him in the bush at the end of her mother's street seems highly unlikely.

imo

It does seem highly unlikely. But so does everything else. William was out of sight for at least a few minutes because it was highly unlikely that a predator would pop up at exactly the right moment in a quiet cul-de-sac. It's unlikely that being asthmatic he wandered far and then unlikely that if he did wander he wasn't found. And yet, he's not home in bed. Something unlikely happened.

 

[Chrissy74]

I am assuming the female caregiver is a POI with good reason. So starting from that position, I don't think this was planned at all. I think tensions were high and we are now privy to that very state.

I think Wm was a happy, bright, busy boy -- and more work than they'd bargained for.

I think the iconic photo and the roaring and the Mommy Monster, Daddy Tiger details were constructs, and made for a compelling diversion. And the media ate it up.

I think it's very possible Wm fell or jumped or thought he could fly, unaware of the height differential. Or he fell over backwards. Or he choked on dice.

I'm a mom, that photo looks EXACTLY like show me what's in your mouth.

I don't automatically believe she was taking photos for a future scrapbook. But she MAY have been attempting to document Wm's behavior for review or to show the male caregiver. I. E. Wm being belligerent, not rolling dice correctly, etc. I think she was wound tight, with unrealistic expectations.

So.... if Wm suddenly had catastrophic injuries (he could've been hung up by his cape, by accident and asphyxiated...

She would've had mere minutes to react. Most parents are DESPERATE to resuscitate, even when it's beyond too late, but there may have been other pressures at play here. Marital issues (deleted texts), perfectionism, losing the foster daughter. If Wm was beyond recovery, she might have decided to make up a narrative, believing it would save her image, her foster status, her marriage or maybe all three.

Her first act IMO hide Wm quickly.

Second act, calmly set the foster grandma and foster daughter into tasks that would keep them occupied indefinitely.

Third, perhaps gather a quick disguise, drive away. Return without Wm, never mention the drive, commence looking for Wm with the foster grandma, as if  Wm just went missing.

IMO she says it, he went missing 5 minutes prior to the joint "seaching" --

But IMO he'd been "missing" for 30 minutes or so.

I can imagine her saying, no, Mother, it wqs only a few minutes, remember, I made you tea, Wm was roaring.

I very much would like to know just how many -- or how detailed -- the foster daughter's drawings were. Bet she wore down some crayons.

It wasn't five minutes.

JMO

Def all

I am assuming the female caregiver is a POI with good reason. So starting from that position, I don't think this was planned at all. I think tensions were high and we are now privy to that very state.

I think Wm was a happy, bright, busy boy -- and more work than they'd bargained for.

I think the iconic photo and the roaring and the Mommy Monster, Daddy Tiger details were constructs, and made for a compelling diversion. And the media ate it up.

I think it's very possible Wm fell or jumped or thought he could fly, unaware of the height differential. Or he fell over backwards. Or he choked on dice.

I'm a mom, that photo looks EXACTLY like show me what's in your mouth.

I don't automatically believe she was taking photos for a future scrapbook. But she MAY have been attempting to document Wm's behavior for review or to show the male caregiver. I. E. Wm being belligerent, not rolling dice correctly, etc. I think she was wound tight, with unrealistic expectations.

So.... if Wm suddenly had catastrophic injuries (he could've been hung up by his cape, by accident and asphyxiated...

She would've had mere minutes to react. Most parents are DESPERATE to resuscitate, even when it's beyond too late, but there may have been other pressures at play here. Marital issues (deleted texts), perfectionism, losing the foster daughter. If Wm was beyond recovery, she might have decided to make up a narrative, believing it would save her image, her foster status, her marriage or maybe all three.

Her first act IMO hide Wm quickly.

Second act, calmly set the foster grandma and foster daughter into tasks that would keep them occupied indefinitely.

Third, perhaps gather a quick disguise, drive away. Return without Wm, never mention the drive, commence looking for Wm with the foster grandma, as if  Wm just went missing.

IMO she says it, he went missing 5 minutes prior to the joint "seaching" --

But IMO he'd been "missing" for 30 minutes or so.

I can imagine her saying, no, Mother, it wqs only a few minutes, remember, I made you tea, Wm was roaring.

I very much would like to know just how many -- or how detailed -- the foster daughter's drawings were. Bet she wore down some crayons.

It wasn't five minutes.

JMO

def all plausible. I’ve also wondered about the possible asphyxiation from his costume and chocking on the dice.

 

[Chrissy74]

N

No, I am not supposing that, but perhaps others are. Seeing that a plan is being spoken about.

If all of these people are in on a plan to dispose of William - who they had loved and cared for, for practically all of his life - they certainly could have thought of another plan that would be more believable. imo

To imagine that this little boy was alive and happy, running around with his sister, then suddenly his FM found him dead, chucked him in the car, and dropped him in the bush at the end of her mother's street seems highly unlikely.

imo

No more unlikely than a random stranger abducting W in a dead end part of a street, a quiet street that no one would normally drive through unless you live in that street, where he was playing only a couple of metres away from his Ffc fgm and sister which implies the abductor would have had to have seen W walked up through the fgm yard grabbed W walked back out and drove away all without being seen or heard by anyone. He’s not a wanderer. He knows his limitations. He wouldn’t be enticed by a stranger. So many unlikely scenarios but some statistically more likely than others.