Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[katydid23]

1) At 2 minutes 08 seconds operator says "there wasn't anyone suspicious in the area, any vehicles?"

FFC says "no,no,no" about 5 times.

Days later FFC describes the 2 or 3 suspicious cars in the street and each new time she talked about the cars she "added extra mayo", even describing the colours of the vehicles, the sound of the vehicles, her 5 year old daugher allegedly noticing the vehicles, the body shape and description of the driver of the vehicles.

Remembering all of the details with so much clarity later from the "no, no, no, no, no" answer does not gel IMO.

Other contradictions have been picked up but if you don't think this alone is a contradiction then I don't see the point in listing the others.

Is it a 'contradiction' if she remembered something days later?

There are often 'mistakes' or miscommunications in the initial 000 calls. People are in shock, distracted, frightened and are not in the best frame of mind.

 

[katydid23]

I just saw this on another thread here:

this sunday oct 16 channel nine 60mins has an episode about theo, with former homicide detective gary jubelin, liz hayes and theos mother interviewed

Watch 60 Minutes - Season 2022 - Sunday on 60 Minutes: Nightmare in Paradise | 9Now

www.9now.com.au

 

[deugirtni]

There would be an argument. In theory you can pay the account in full and take the receipt to Medicare afterwards to claim a partial refund (or not--the clinic wouldn't know if you didn't). The clinic admin will not want you near a doctor until you've handed over your Medicare details, regardless of how you decide to pay. If you don't have a Medicare card because you're not an Australian and say so, that's one thing. But babysitting is a poor excuse. Why aren't you taking the child to his usual doctor (who already has the card details and will only reinspect the card once a year), and can't you call someone to get the number on the card? Then if the doctor wants to write a prescription or a referral or a test request, again the Medicare details are wanted to go on those documents. Pharmacies too, you give them the prescription from the doctor with the Medicare details written on it, but they also insist on having seen the card for themselves. In short, you'd be drawing attention to yourself by not presenting your card (or at least card number) to the GP clinic, more so if you tried it a second time at the same place, and you'd stick out on their computer system. Not what you want if you're trying to go unobserved. Medicare cards are also good contributors to 100 point checks, so without one it's harder to prove your identity for other purposes.

So... if you (being an Aussie) think it's impossible.. then we'll go with that IF W is living with a family who wanted a toddler to be a part of their family, they obtained/purchased a fake identity for him, registered him with Medicare. Likely still not with a public school though, since way too many people on a regular basis, which could potentially 'recognize' him. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Good Info sleuth and this is for NSW Only:

$1M reward - 39 cases
$750k reward - 2 cases
$500k reward - 10 cases
$350k reward - 4 cases
$300k reward - 1 case
$250k reward - 10 cases
$200k reward - 7 cases
$150k reward - 1 case
$100k reward - 66 cases
$50k reward - 3 cases

This is $58M of reward money up for grabs across 143 unsolved homicide cases in NSW.

If anything, this statistic highlights how easy is seems to be to get away with murder?

I honestly had no idea that there were so many $1M rewards on offer! 39 is massive.

Especially since....... wasn't WT the first instance of a reward being $1M? So since that time 8 years ago, there are THIRTY-NINE of them still unsolved? Wow.

 

[Awakening]

I homeschooled my oldest for 6 months. All I did was fill out a form saying I wanted to register him for homeschooling. No one ever checked anything.

We are in Victoria and some states are stricter.

Many homeschoolers I came across didn't bother registering at all.

William wasn't in the school system yet so would be incredibly easy.

Some alternative off grid families don't go to doctors, don't believe in vaccination or "big pharma".

But really if he was kidnapped so successfully then the kidnappers would no doubt have the resources to get a fake birth certificate.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Especially since....... wasn't WT the first instance of a reward being $1M? So since that time 8 years ago, there are THIRTY-NINE of them still unsolved? Wow.

This is a good article about rewards. I never realised that it’s up to the families to fight to increase the reward Do million-dollar rewards really help police solve cold cases?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I never realised that it’s up to the families to fight to increase the reward

I didn't either.

 

[Chrissy74]

Just for me, personally, imo, I'm not buying into the pedo theory at all.. so when I even consider that he could have been 'handed off' to someone, I think in terms of him going to a family that wanted a child to raise as their own. There seems to be zero evidence of any theory (as far as we know about), whether accident and coverup, stolen by pedos, planned murder, little boy lost, etc., so I figure being with another family is just as valid a possibility as the rest. If he IS with a family who wanted to raise him as their own, he'd have to be in some kind of schooling, as far as I'm concerned, or his options may be very limited for furthering any educational/career pursuits later on, which wouldn't be in his best interests. He could still avoid attending public school by being homeschooled, and nobody might therefore ever know what the child looked like.. I just wondered how much oversight your government gives to homeschooling parents.

IMO there is evidence (outside the obvious) and it will all come out in due time deugirtni

 

[JLZ]

So... if you (being an Aussie) think it's impossible.. then we'll go with that IF W is living with a family who wanted a toddler to be a part of their family, they obtained/purchased a fake identity for him, registered him with Medicare. Likely still not with a public school though, since way too many people on a regular basis, which could potentially 'recognize' him. imo.

It would be awkward because a kid is normally on its parents' Medicare card from birth, so if he had a fake Medicare ID, how come his history doesn't start until he's like three years old? Or, if it was originally someone else's number, how come a three-year-old boy has the history of say a sixty-year-old woman? But, I don't know who would be in a position to notice that--maybe a Medicare processor.

 

[deugirtni]

It would be awkward because a kid is normally on its parents' Medicare card from birth, so if he had a fake Medicare ID, how come his history doesn't start until he's like three years old? Or, if it was originally someone else's number, how come a three-year-old boy has the history of say a sixty-year-old woman? But, I don't know who would be in a position to notice that--maybe a Medicare processor.

Possibly via a fake ID.. for a child adopted from outside of the country at age 3? We hear lots about identity theft, human trafficking, fake IDs, etc., so some must be getting away with it somehow? If LE didnt do appropriate investigations in the beginning, is it possible someone could've very quickly left the country with him, to be raised somewhere else where things are scrutinized the same way? Or... just toss my thought in the not-possible bin?

 

[JLZ]

Possibly via a fake ID.. for a child adopted from outside of the country at age 3? We hear lots about identity theft, human trafficking, fake IDs, etc., so some must be getting away with it somehow? If LE didnt do appropriate investigations in the beginning, is it possible someone could've very quickly left the country with him, to be raised somewhere else where things are scrutinized the same way? Or... just toss my thought in the not-possible bin?

I suppose anything's possible with unlimited money and taking-trouble, but surely for people with such resources there are easier, lawful ways of getting a child. I don't get the impression that there was anyone with a motive to appropriate specifically William who had the wealth and attention to detail to set him up as someone else. If he's imprisoned in a shed or camped miles from any town with no outside contact, no medical care, no attempt at educational development and no mucking around with ID, I don't say that's impossible either, but it's not what you're talking about right?

 

[deugirtni]

I suppose anything's possible with unlimited money and taking-trouble, but surely for people with such resources there are easier, lawful ways of getting a child. I don't get the impression that there was anyone with a motive to appropriate specifically William who had the wealth and attention to detail to set him up as someone else. If he's imprisoned in a shed or camped miles from any town with no outside contact, no medical care, no attempt at educational development and no mucking around with ID, I don't say that's impossible either, but it's not what you're talking about right?

Well, as you say, it seems that at this point, anything is possible? That isn't what I was specifically talking about, no. But doesn't mean it's not also a possibility? There could be many reasons why someone/a couple may not be able to pass through the usual vetting of a legal adoption (first thing that pops into my head is a woman who really REALLY wants a cute little toddler, perhaps married to some guy with a history of CSA/pedophilia. ... who of course, tells his wife that although he was convicted, it was all a bunch of lies and errors?

Why do the fosters.. at least imho... all of them... not seem to be terribly upset? Walkthroughs performed at day#6, and none of them are crying, all seem to be functioning. Why not once have I heard the FM apologize for losing William, in eight years. A POSSIBLE explanation could be that there is some kind of knowledge that he's alive and doing okay somewhere? This apparent lack of emotion has been discussed many times, and yes, of course, everyone reacts differently to situations and stress and grief. It seems to me, just from listening to all kinds of conversations, that most of us would not have been able to function, would've been a basket case, would have needed to be sedated, etc. For me, giving him to someone is more believable than the magic that would have to happen for a pedo to be lurking on a deadend street in a tiny village and become SO 'lucky' that a beautiful male toddler appears out of nowhere without any supervision, and nobody around watching, even though the street, we've heard was actually quite full of activity that morning. (AMS driving out and back in from taking her kids to school, LH arriving home with groceries, lawnmower man mowing, Savage out walking, Heather leaving for bingo, the Crabbs seemed to be busy, out and in, etc. The fellow at the tennis club who drove home after reportedly overhearing a phonecall, etc.) Not a shred of fabric, not a scent to be found by the sniffer dogs, nobody saw or heard a thing. Of course it is POSSIBLE some random pedo could've been so 'lucky' to come across that meeting of stars moon and sun, but... how likely is it really? Even in the other most unlikely case of the young child being taken from a tent while sleeping in it with her parents, someone saw SOMETHING (and IIRC, that something is what led to the investigation which solved that crime?). I've been trying to make SOME kind of sense of this for over 8 years now, so ... all just my thoughts wondering on all of the possibilities.

 

[katydid23]

I homeschooled my oldest for 6 months. All I did was fill out a form saying I wanted to register him for homeschooling. No one ever checked anything.

We are in Victoria and some states are stricter.

Many homeschoolers I came across didn't bother registering at all.

William wasn't in the school system yet so would be incredibly easy.

Some alternative off grid families don't go to doctors, don't believe in vaccination or "big pharma".

But really if he was kidnapped so successfully then the kidnappers would no doubt have the resources to get a fake birth certificate.

And he may have been moved to another country immediately. If he is in Europe or the States or the UK, he could have a fake ID and go unrecognised, quite easily.

 

[JLZ]

A POSSIBLE explanation could be that there is some kind of knowledge that he's alive and doing okay somewhere?

Do you call this

(first thing that pops into my head is a woman who really REALLY wants a cute little toddler, perhaps married to some guy with a history of CSA/pedophilia. ... who of course, tells his wife that although he was convicted, it was all a bunch of lies and errors?

an example of doing okay somewhere?

I don't believe William can possibly be 'doing okay' and living in Australia.

For me, giving him to someone is more believable than the magic that would have to happen for a pedo to be lurking on a deadend street in a tiny village and become SO 'lucky' that a beautiful male toddler appears out of nowhere without any supervision, and nobody around watching, even though the street, we've heard was actually quite full of activity that morning.

<modsnip: Rude and personalizing> My hypothetical pedophile is not lurking, at least not before he or she notices William. He or she is going about normal life in the street like the others you mention who form part of its 'activity'. Perhaps a Benaroon/Ellendale/Batar Creek Road resident who can't be ruled in or out; perhaps someone living a short distance away who hasn't been discovered to have visited the street.

Well, here's a handing over scenario, but I'd shoot it down if someone else proposed it. In the weeks or months leading up to William's disappearance, FFC tells FGM she's having problems with William, including biting. FGM repeats the information to her acquaintances. One of them says, oh, he sounds just like such-and-such child; he turned out to have such-and-such problem, and my partner and I put him right. (They exorcise, or perform a pseudo-medical intervention, or some combination of the two.) FGM convinces FFC to try it. They make arrangements, someone comes by and collects William, and afterwards FFC drives out to pick him up. Unfortunately. . . . I'll stop there.

 

[Chrissy74]

Do you call this

an example of doing okay somewhere?

I don't believe William can possibly be 'doing okay' and living in Australia.


<modsnip: Rude and personalizing> My hypothetical pedophile is not lurking, at least not before he or she notices William. He or she is going about normal life in the street like the others you mention who form part of its 'activity'. Perhaps a Benaroon/Ellendale/Batar Creek Road resident who can't be ruled in or out; perhaps someone living a short distance away who hasn't been discovered to have visited the street.

Well, here's a handing over scenario, but I'd shoot it down if someone else proposed it. In the weeks or months leading up to William's disappearance, FFC tells FGM she's having problems with William, including biting. FGM repeats the information to her acquaintances. One of them says, oh, he sounds just like such-and-such child; he turned out to have such-and-such problem, and my partner and I put him right. (They exorcise, or perform a pseudo-medical intervention, or some combination of the two.) FGM convinces FFC to try it. They make arrangements, someone comes by and collects William, and afterwards FFC drives out to pick him up. Unfortunately. . . . I'll stop there.

What kind of medical or otherwise, intervention could you possibly be referring to JLZ? It sounds like an exorcism or torture chamber. If that’s even a possible scenario, what is involved in a “pseudo medical” intervention for a child who’s going through a biting phase? And how would they suppose that treatment would be effective in a few hrs? <modsnip: Removed snark>

 

[deugirtni]

Do you call this

an example of doing okay somewhere?

I don't believe William can possibly be 'doing okay' and living in Australia.


<modsnip: Rude and personalizing> My hypothetical pedophile is not lurking, at least not before he or she notices William. He or she is going about normal life in the street like the others you mention who form part of its 'activity'. Perhaps a Benaroon/Ellendale/Batar Creek Road resident who can't be ruled in or out; perhaps someone living a short distance away who hasn't been discovered to have visited the street.

Well, here's a handing over scenario, but I'd shoot it down if someone else proposed it. In the weeks or months leading up to William's disappearance, FFC tells FGM she's having problems with William, including biting. FGM repeats the information to her acquaintances. One of them says, oh, he sounds just like such-and-such child; he turned out to have such-and-such problem, and my partner and I put him right. (They exorcise, or perform a pseudo-medical intervention, or some combination of the two.) FGM convinces FFC to try it. They make arrangements, someone comes by and collects William, and afterwards FFC drives out to pick him up. Unfortunately. . . . I'll stop there.

I'm not saying that the fosters, one or both, would necessarily have 'known' of the particular reasons for why a couple couldn't or didn't want to go through legal avenues to adopt.. it may have just been a blissfully happy to have been a no questions asked, type of thing? Okay as in.. alive as opposed to not-alive.

Please understand that none of my posts have been in direct reply to your own individual thoughts of what happened to William, but rather, the general theory that I feel we (the public) have been fed for 8 years - the pedo abduction theory. Please don't take anything I write as an affront to any thoughts that you or anyone else here may have, I was merely expressing my own confused thoughts.

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped> Why did Jubelin get struck with the thought that it was a pedophile who had a reason to be in the neighbourhood? I imagine because they have reportedly, apparently, checked out everyone in the neighbourhood. To me, it makes it that much MORE unbelievable that if he was taken in that manner, the person was able to get away with it for over 8 years already, even though it was just a stroke of luck with no planning. No one noticed a thing in all the years since, and no trace of him has ever turned up (that we know of). They've asked neighbours for any visitors/workers they may have expected or had that morning, and I have every confidence they spent time checking them all out.

Your last paragraph.. another theory... one I admit has never occurred to me, but yet, 'anything's possible'. In that scenario though, if someone HAD talked to FGM about such a topic, I feel certain they would've reported it to LE, if for no other good reason than to try to collect all or part of the reward monies.. that would be a pretty big tip, imho.

 

[JLZ]

Your last paragraph.. another theory... one I admit has never occurred to me, but yet, 'anything's possible'. In that scenario though, if someone HAD talked to FGM about such a topic, I feel certain they would've reported it to LE, if for no other good reason than to try to collect all or part of the reward monies.. that would be a pretty big tip, imho.

But you see, the person who recommended the treatment is complicit, is guilty. It was herself and her partner who killed William in their deluded, violent attempt to cure him. Police would probably have become aware that FGM was spreading the family's private information about the neighbourhood, but nobody except the family and the treatment providers knew there was a treatment plan. I think the biggest weakness in the theory is the usual one of timing, and then the question of whether FFC would have admitted she arranged the treatment, with the most innocent intentions of course.

 

[Chrissy74]

But you see, the person who recommended the treatment is complicit, is guilty. It was herself and her partner who killed William in their deluded, violent attempt to cure him. Police would probably have become aware that FGM was spreading the family's private information about the neighbourhood, but nobody except the family and the treatment providers knew there was a treatment plan. I think the biggest weakness in the theory is the usual one of timing, and then the question of whether FFC would have admitted she arranged the treatment, with the most innocent intentions of course.

Pls explain how this “theory” works into the timeline?

 

[JLZ]

Pls explain how this “theory” works into the timeline?

I don't quite know. The location to which William is taken would be quite close by, less than five minutes' drive. The actual treatment is of brief duration too, taking under ten minutes, possibly under five. The most time-consuming part would be seeking the trust and co-operation of the patient. FFC is told she can collect the child after half an hour. Perhaps she heads out around 10:15, William having been driven away around 9:50 or a little earlier.

 

[Couldbe]

A theory along these lines could draw some substantiation by linking it with the statement by Ron Chapman:

'I'm sure it was William Tyrrell': witness tells inquest he saw missing boy in car
“I’m sure it was William Tyrrell that was in the vehicle,” he told the NSW coroner’s court.
“He just had his hands up on the window and was looking. His face wasn’t pressed against the glass but he was very close to the glass.
“He didn’t seem distressed or upset. Whether he knew the person I don’t know.”

It is just my opinion that another sighting of that vehicle with William up against the window would surely be also sighted by another person while on its journey / or its arrival at some particular premises.