Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[SouthAussie]

What you are suggesting is not impossible to me and I have entertained it, but who was protecting Lindsay as a foster child. On the Sunday after WT went missing, both foster parents, FGM and Lindsay all gave statements to police. On the following Tuesday the FGM, and both foster parents performed video walk throughs. The FGM talks about being on the patio with Lindsay when he disappeared and in the MFC's walk through, he indicates that when he arrived back home, someone indicated to him that WT was just there before he disappeared, close to the back patio.... Were the media talking to neighbors initially who just passed along the gossip mill....

I guess it is possible that, with an abduction being considered, no-one would want the perp to know that there may have been a child witness.

 

[JBowie]

[FM] readily admitted to the Crime Commission she had hit and kicked the 10-year-old, the court heard on Friday.

“These are serious admissions for a foster parent to make. Kicking is almost worse than having a child put their hand out to be hit with a wooden spoon,” [magistrate] Moody said.

Will be interesting to hear more about the assault charges still to be faced.

‘I hope police focus on finding William’: Tyrrell foster mother not guilty of lying to Crime Commission

The woman was hauled before the secretive crime-fighting body to answer questions about the boy’s disappearance.

www.smh.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

T

rue Slouth. I think it’s safe to say LE are not looking for any other POI in this case.

It will be interesting to see if they proceed with the FF Lying charges now ??? Or will they be dropped???

Perhaps, if they proceed, the DPP may supply a barrister SC to offer a fair fight against the defendant’s barrister ???

They may get a different judge ??

There is also now “precedence” in these charges … that has been established …

Intersting legal times ahead…

IMO

 

[JLZ]

Remembers that the two of them were playing a game of tigers on the lawn beneath the house, out of sight of the adults.

This is so annoying when the people who choose to discuss the events of the day - just don't do a timeline and sort out who was where and when.

example

9.03 - call to x - y made call l colouring g in toilet w playing with dice j on conference call etc
9.10 - go outside y supervising l ride bike w ride bike g washing dishes etc
9.20 -
9.37 - photos
9.40 - L and W beneath house on lawn out of sight of adults.
9.45 all back on the patio together

We all have had various attempts at it.

But if GJ writes a book and inserts an event/activity different to what has been the most consistent and often explained - of what took place they were all on the back patio. It just not helpful in going to clear this all up. I wish he put more effort in that timeline to really close up and shore up this question mark so that there is no confusion. MOO

Lawn doesn't grow beneath a house, and the area where we've been told the children were playing is on its uphill side, so what does L's alleged description mean? I thought she also reported the 'roar' FFC heard, and if they were actually on the lawn on the lower side of the house, nobody else would have heard it. Then, playing tigers. I thought she'd given up or refused to play tigers because William wanted her to be the baby. So perhaps they were playing right around on the lower side--near where the road turns a corner, near the Savages--and she came back without him? Were they playing on the lawn and under the house (in the garage) as well?

 

[Shadow@light]

I think about her also saying that William went to see if daddy was home. And asked why she thought that, replied "I don't know".

There was something also said about her (them ?) seeing a car that looked like daddy's car.

That is correct SouthAussie it was reported from the the begining, Lindsay said she that then went up to go to the toilet (she required some help from FCM, other reports before going out to do some drawing.
Lindsay said she does not no why she said it.
IMO, in my past experience, and my thoughts, having a younger siblings following me on where I was on a personal nature call would to distract them get their attention else where so I could dash off /also them following me all the time could be so annoying
Lindsay IMO told William is that Daddy's car (there one in the street that looked like it) to distract him also give her a break, I feel IMO Lindsay does have the guilt feeling that she sent her little brother away and he disappeared her behaviour issues there is a lot of stress with both parties both need a lot of help.
I feel Lindsay may have resented the new foster child, IMO, due to her feeling guilty about that day this showed in what was been described as acting up, I understand, well IMO because I been down that road of guilt and you do lash out others in worst cases as well.
( When I was a tween I was informed/questioned by Welfare informed by family member ,that years earlier myself and friend who lived next door, did a daring stunt on a staircase friend seriously injured or more, myself, concussion broken arm, I could not remember it. Yet I became stressed and felt so much guilt it affected my behaviour years later I even tried to push the blame on my older sibling, it was them not me , I refused to be in contact with siblings had not many friends, refused to do babysitting, did not want to be around young children I did not want to have children in case something happened to them. I never discussed it with my Grandparents until my mid 20's. It was total fear and guilt. It was until in my twenties, had a x ray due to injury at work, showed no former breakage on both arms, contacted family told them with their help we gather information, house had no staircase, no family of the name lived there, was a false story.
My heart goes out to Lindsay because until William is found, this will always keep going on for her and I wish she and all families can heal.
In my heart I keep wishing William to be found alive, for everyone sakes.
But a speck of light, a light of hope, can shine through the vast darkness.

 

[SLouTh]

[FM] readily admitted to the Crime Commission she had hit and kicked the 10-year-old, the court heard on Friday.

BBM

This is the crux of todays decision, in my humble opinion …. FM had admitted these behaviours to the NSWCC ….

This case was not about the alleged assaults, that is to come later, this case was about Lying to the NSWCC….

‘I hope police focus on finding William’: Tyrrell foster mother not guilty of lying to Crime Commission

The woman was hauled before the secretive crime-fighting body to answer questions about the boy’s disappearance.

www.smh.com.au

IMO

 

[BigT]

Not guilty, could mean not enough evidence. FM said “so why haven’t you got him” to the Police when they told her they know.

My hypothesis is: FGM knows, but has not taken her secret to the grave, and that’s how the Police “know” what happened.

SO if FM says “Why haven’t you got him” with confidence, and the police say “we know” with confidence, they can’t both be right.

Maybe the focus should be on when she may have moved him….

 

[LolaAngelina]

Not guilty, could mean not enough evidence. FM said “so why haven’t you got him” to the Police when they told her they know.

My hypothesis is: FGM knows, but has not taken her secret to the grave, and that’s how the Police “know” what happened.

SO if FM says “Why haven’t you got him” with confidence, and the police say “we know” with confidence, they can’t both be right.

Maybe the focus should be on when she may have moved him….

Todays not guilty verdict has nothing to do with the assault or William.

 

[Couldbe]

Todays not guilty verdict has nothing to do with the assault or William.

Not guilty of misleading about what ...... if nothing to do with the assault (evidence of which was in the tapes played)?

 

[SouthAussie]

Not guilty of misleading about what ...... if nothing to do with the assault (evidence of which was in the tapes played)?

The verdict (they are speaking of the verdict) was about did FM knowingly lie or not.

The magistrate said she doesn't think she knowingly lied because she admitted to something the magistrate considers worse (kicking).

 

[katydid23]

Remembers that the two of them were playing a game of tigers on the lawn beneath the house, out of sight of the adults.

This is so annoying when the people who choose to discuss the events of the day - just don't do a timeline and sort out who was where and when.

example

9.03 - call to x - y made call l colouring g in toilet w playing with dice j on conference call etc
9.10 - go outside y supervising l ride bike w ride bike g washing dishes etc
9.20 -
9.37 - photos
9.40 - L and W beneath house on lawn out of sight of adults.
9.45 all back on the patio together

We all have had various attempts at it.

But if GJ writes a book and inserts an event/activity different to what has been the most consistent and often explained - of what took place they were all on the back patio. It just not helpful in going to clear this all up. I wish he put more effort in that timeline to really close up and shore up this question mark so that there is no confusion. MOO

That kind of timeline is really hard to do accurately. My grandkids were here visiting last Sunday. We were sometimes on back patio, sometimes at dining room table, sometimes in family room. The 2 kids were moving around, together and apart. My husband and I were also moving from here to there, doing various activities with them.

There is no way I could accurately make a minute by minute timeline of the first few hours of their visit. We were on the patio drawing with coloured chalk for awhile then youngest child kept going inside to see grandpa and they would come back out and go in, and older child would go in kitchen to get snacks, etc.

So if an author were to try and accurately describe each moment of our morning, for each family member, I don't believe it would be possible to do so.

 

[Chrissy74]

Not guilty, could mean not enough evidence. FM said “so why haven’t you got him” to the Police when they told her they know.

My hypothesis is: FGM knows, but has not taken her secret to the grave, and that’s how the Police “know” what happened.

SO if FM says “Why haven’t you got him” with confidence, and the police say “we know” with confidence, they can’t both be right.

Maybe the focus should be on when she may have moved him….

What if all that’s left of Ws remains are ashes? The latest search suggesting that that if there were remains to be found it would most likely be teeth. Knowing there’s no body to be found would certainly generate a great deal of confidence in sticking with her story. So perhaps LE do know where W is or where his ashes were scattered “outskirts of Kendall”

 

[bearbear]

That kind of timeline is really hard to do accurately. My grandkids were here visiting last Sunday. We were sometimes on back patio, sometimes at dining room table, sometimes in family room. The 2 kids were moving around, together and apart. My husband and I were also moving from here to there, doing various activities with them.

There is no way I could accurately make a minute by minute timeline of the first few hours of their visit. We were on the patio drawing with coloured chalk for awhile then youngest child kept going inside to see grandpa and they would come back out and go in, and older child would go in kitchen to get snacks, etc.

So if an author were to try and accurately describe each moment of our morning, for each family member, I don't believe it would be possible to do so.

but wouldnt you remember who was where in that moment you suddenly noticed a child was missing for only 5 minutes?

 

[bearbear]

if little william was secreted in the undergrowth, could someone have gone back after the searches were over and taken him back to sydney to be properly disposed of?
horrible thought, and far fetched but would guarantee he was never found

 

[nightrider17]

I understand it would be difficult to establish a timeline accurately.

But there has been some timelines previously given by all parties that were present at various times.

I just would have liked if GJ in his book which included this case that he could have shed some light on a timeline inserting all the previous documented accounts from the various people including young L.

Instead he chose in his book to include a activity/event from L's perspective that he got from her but it doesn't gel with all the other various other people's account.

I'm just frustrated because he chose to include this story in his book - but didn't flesh it out enough considering he had access to all their accounts.

Eg:
Just say I had a bike stolen.

I say I had it out on the back patio only for a few minutes and I was there all the time only popped inside for 5 mins.

Next time I say - I also left the house for a short drive up the road.

Next time I say I told my daughter to take it for a ride down the footpath

Someone else says I was there the bike was outside from the night before. Etc Its disjointed and doesn't flow. MOO

 

[k-mac]

I am concerned for Lindsay, because at 12 years old and having exhibited problematic behaviour, finding continuing foster care for her may be difficult.

bbm
can you provide a source outside of the fosters that lindsay exibits 'problematic behavior"?
thanks.

 

[nightrider17]

So because the FFC admitted to hitting and kicking - which the judge believes is worse (kicking) that she wasn't lying about hitting someone with a wooden spoon because she clearly distressed.

So she didn't willingly lie she was distressed and maybe accidently lied about the wooden spoon?? MOO

 

[Couldbe]

The verdict (they are speaking of the verdict) was about did FM knowingly lie or not.

The magistrate said she doesn't think she knowingly lied because she admitted to something the magistrate considers worse (kicking).

Yes we now have it ... Magistrate has delivered her verdict.

BBM - have to wonder about this:
William Tyrrell's foster mother used wooden spoon to hit young girl, court hears
“It's alleged the woman hit a 10-year-old girl in the head with a wooden spoon, kicked her in the thigh and threatened to "break" her.”

 

[SLouTh]

Interesting quotes from the judge, found in The Australian in the last 2 days …

Is this directed at Police??


“She’s (FM) clearly aghast at the allegation she had anything to do with the disappearance of her foster child,” Ms Moody said in handing down her judgment on Friday.

And also this ….

Ms Moody noted that it was never alleged that the foster mother had been violent towards William or harmed him.

And from yesterday’s article it appears that the focus on FM as a POI has been ongoing for 2 years plus now …

But police bugged their home and intercepted their phone calls in 2020 when the focus of the investigation changed following the removal of former top cop Gary Jubelin from the case.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/tyrrell-foster-mother-not-guilty-of-lying-to-nsw-crime-commission/news-story/33f4659bc26aafdd9e4b05dbd33409c3

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/she-knows-where-hes-buried-tyrrell-cop-accuses-foster-mum/news-story/2e2dd3e24ae7b85f5cd5b698464f1817

Points to ponder… IMO

 

[JBowie]

Interesting quotes from the judge, found in The Australian in the last 2 days …

Is this directed at Police??


“She’s (FM) clearly aghast at the allegation she had anything to do with the disappearance of her foster child,” Ms Moody said in handing down her judgment on Friday.

And also this ….

Ms Moody noted that it was never alleged that the foster mother had been violent towards William or harmed him.

And from yesterday’s article it appears that the focus on FM as a POI has been ongoing for 2 years plus now …

But police bugged their home and intercepted their phone calls in 2020 when the focus of the investigation changed following the removal of former top cop Gary Jubelin from the case.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/tyrrell-foster-mother-not-guilty-of-lying-to-nsw-crime-commission/news-story/33f4659bc26aafdd9e4b05dbd33409c3

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/she-knows-where-hes-buried-tyrrell-cop-accuses-foster-mum/news-story/2e2dd3e24ae7b85f5cd5b698464f1817

Points to ponder… IMO

Here's how I ponder it: a person is either inclined to beat children or isn't.