Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #34

[Angeline]

I really don't understand NC's reaction to all this. Wouldn't you be grateful that the police are still putting so much effort into finding out what happened to William? Even if his body is not in this location (she seems sure about that ), then at least the police are looking for clues and that's something to be thankful for. Heck, even if they are not looking for clues and just trying to get a step closer to a coronial inquest, that is also a good thing.

 

[Angeline]

The Daily Telegraph
@dailytelegraph
#EXCLUSIVE: "Stop searching, he's dead": William Tyrrell's biological grandmother hits out at investigators over renewed search. (link: http://bit.ly/2yaEeE5) bit.ly/2yaEeE5

‘Ms Collins, a cleaner, said she and her family were not informed of the search for fresh evidence involving a 50-strong force that has already unearthed a toy hidden in the undergrowth on the NSW mid north-coast, where the mystery began almost four years ago.’

SBM. BBM.

Interesting. The toy was hidden in the undergrowth. Makes me think it was a fair way out in the bush, not near a house.

 

[gregjrichards]

William Tyrrell's foster parents are holding out hope the little boy will be found alive - ahead of his seventh birthday in 11 days' time.

But his biological grandmother says the renewed police search for clues in Kendall is 'all for show' and has claimed he is dead.

The divisions in the two arms of William's family were on show on Friday, almost four years after he vanished, as the official campaign to find him called for action.

The 'Bring Him Home' campaign - closely associated with his foster parents - said: 'William's loved ones continue to hold out hope he will be found.'

'On his 7th birthday we invite all those who love and care for William to light a candle in his honour to share the heartfelt hope that William will soon be found'.

William Tyrrell's family torn as his seventh birthday approaches, police search Kendall | Daily Mail Online

 

[WhiteLion^^]

I'm interested to hear what you think is likely to happen from this point, given this search and the comments from people this week (BC, NC, etc). I'm thinking there's the following scenarios:

1) This search is 3km2 because that's what the coroner needs to "rule out" misadventure if it goes to inquest, and therefore 4 weeks and 3km2 it is, with state planning mapping used, testing equipment, dogs, shovels, every house paver tested, every "mine shaft" and "nook and cranny" checked (not sure there are even mine shafts in the search area, but I noticed in ACA's interview with Jubelin, it was mentioned and Jubelin didn't say there weren't any in the bushland). This scenario is both depressing (ie maybe the police don't have many leads, no-one has responded to the reward, etc) and encouraging (they need to rule out misadventure because they know it was human intervention and who did the act, but not where William is - therefore a criminal conviction (body or not) may go ahead via the inquest).

2) This search is 3km2 because, through covert investigations or tip off, they know where to look in general but not specific square metre, and are looking for either a burial site or items that they strongly suspect or know are there. This is both distressing (burial site) and relieving (closure may be on its way - to conviction or William's location - alive or passed).

3) This search is (1) and Jubelin is taking the opportunity to show via media specific tools and items being found (police officers walking openly down a street, almost parading), as a last ditch effort to draw out the person responsible, as SF Rosann's last opportunity if you like - using smoke and mirrors to turn those screws - but it is mostly for show. I personally don't think this is the case, because it is going for 4 weeks with 50 specialist staff. If you think about what this means $ wise, let's assume 50 staff members are being paid $1000 a week at least (I think it would be higher for specialist staff but let's look at minimum numbers here), that's $50,000 per week x 4 = $200,000. Then the equipment, management time, admin support, media liaison officers - you could argue that this is a $500,000+ exercise here. That's not going to be done unless a) no-one has taken the reward and that reward is taken off the table after this exercise so they are spending it on this last ditch effort - or b) there's a reason for this search (as Jubelin has said) and it is not just "for show". They could have done a week's search "for show" and ruffled feathers of a perp. Why four weeks? Because they need that to do the actual job.

Personally, I think it's either 1) doing all they can before a coronial inquest because they need to rule out misadventure before trying to convict someone (but they may never find William); or (2) This is a search for a reason and I think BC going back to the bushland over the past two weeks has something to do with that. Not implying he has anything to do with William's disappearance (I adhere to the rules on this site).

What do you think, WSers? Are there other options that you think are possible?

 

[sosocurious]

The Daily Telegraph
@dailytelegraph
#EXCLUSIVE: "Stop searching, he's dead": William Tyrrell's biological grandmother hits out at investigators over renewed search. (link: http://bit.ly/2yaEeE5) bit.ly/2yaEeE5

Grandma Natalie Collins, 59, says ‘they’re never going to find William’
DANIELLE GUSMAROLI, The Daily Telegraph
June 15, 2018 12:00am

‘WILLIAM Tyrrell’s biological grandmother has hit out at investigators forensically searching scrubland for clues into his disappearance, saying: “You’re wasting your time — he’s dead.”’

‘Natalie Collins, 59, broke down as she said: “This is just opening old wounds for us, the door never closes, the police are wasting good taxpayers’ money and their time, they’re never going to find William — I just know in my heart he’s dead.

“I know exactly what’s happened, someone’s taken him and done something to him. Brendan (William’s father) says it, too, he believes William’s gone.”’

‘Ms Collins, a cleaner, said she and her family were not informed of the search for fresh evidence involving a 50-strong force that has already unearthed a toy hidden in the undergrowth on the NSW mid north-coast, where the mystery began almost four years ago.’

‘“What clues are they looking for? William can’t even walk that far to Kendall, he’s not there,” Ms Collins said through tears.

“Brendan (her son) knows in his heart of hearts his son is dead.

“His mum Karlie has his other children, it’s hard for him dealing with that.’

‘“He hopes they find something but he is not hopeful, maybe finally we’ll be able to get on with our lives, maybe the search will help us do that.”’

View attachment 136238
Above: Search Area (click on image to enlarge).

‘“What clues are they looking for? William can’t even walk that far to Kendall, he’s not there,” Ms Collins said through tears.

“Brendan (her son) knows in his heart of hearts his son is dead.

“His mum Karlie has his other children, it’s hard for him dealing with that.’

NC - really does like to strike up the discussion. Doesn't she?

 

[they'll get you]

I am wondering why the planning council members are involved. Perhaps they and the forestry department are helping them with boundaries, because maybe a warrant has been given for all areas that were Kendall Forest property at a given point in time.

They definitely seem free to move about within external areas around there.

I'm surprised the 'greenies & tree huggers' aren't out in force complaining of the disruption of the environment.

 

[they'll get you]

Shortly after the fresh dig began yesterday, NSW Police announced it was focusing on finding evidence to show his disappearance was the result of human intervention and not misadventure.

Toy found in search for William

IMO they have to absolutely rule out misadventure so they can pounce.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm interested to hear what you think is likely to happen from this point, given this search and the comments from people this week (BC, NC, etc). I'm thinking there's the following scenarios:

1) This search is 3km2 because that's what the coroner needs to "rule out" misadventure if it goes to inquest, and therefore 4 weeks and 3km2 it is, with state planning mapping used, testing equipment, dogs, shovels, every house paver tested, every "mine shaft" and "nook and cranny" checked (not sure there are even mine shafts in the search area, but I noticed in ACA's interview with Jubelin, it was mentioned and Jubelin didn't say there weren't any in the bushland). This scenario is both depressing (ie maybe the police don't have many leads, no-one has responded to the reward, etc) and encouraging (they need to rule out misadventure because they know it was human intervention and who did the act, but not where William is - therefore a criminal conviction (body or not) may go ahead via the inquest).

2) This search is 3km2 because, through covert investigations or tip off, they know where to look in general but not specific square metre, and are looking for either a burial site or items that they strongly suspect or know are there. This is both distressing (burial site) and relieving (closure may be on its way - to conviction or William's location - alive or passed).

3) This search is (1) and Jubelin is taking the opportunity to show via media specific tools and items being found (police officers walking openly down a street, almost parading), as a last ditch effort to draw out the person responsible, as SF Rosann's last opportunity if you like - using smoke and mirrors to turn those screws - but it is mostly for show. I personally don't think this is the case, because it is going for 4 weeks with 50 specialist staff. If you think about what this means $ wise, let's assume 50 staff members are being paid $1000 a week at least (I think it would be higher for specialist staff but let's look at minimum numbers here), that's $50,000 per week x 4 = $200,000. Then the equipment, management time, admin support, media liaison officers - you could argue that this is a $500,000+ exercise here. That's not going to be done unless a) no-one has taken the reward and that reward is taken off the table after this exercise so they are spending it on this last ditch effort - or b) there's a reason for this search (as Jubelin has said) and it is not just "for show". They could have done a week's search "for show" and ruffled feathers of a perp. Why four weeks? Because they need that to do the actual job.

Personally, I think it's either 1) doing all they can before a coronial inquest because they need to rule out misadventure before trying to convict someone (but they may never find William); or (2) This is a search for a reason and I think BC going back to the bushland over the past two weeks has something to do with that. Not implying he has anything to do with William's disappearance (I adhere to the rules on this site).

What do you think, WSers? Are there other options that you think are possible?

I'm wondering if, because it seems the coroner happens to be very involved in this exercise, the coroner and Jubes got together to discuss the case, with coroner telling Jubes they're getting all kinds of flack from the public about this case after so long with nothing at all, and wondering his thoughts on speeding up that inquest. For whatever reason, it seems (to me, imho) that LE doesn't like coroner involvement in their cases, maybe they don't like the thought of being overseen, or it's a feeling of some kind of failure, or they want to just go on and on because really the possibilities for clues and tips never end. During this meeting, it's possible that part of the coroner's reasoning for wanting the inquest, is because really, it isn't proven that the boy did not meet with some other kind of fate, such as 'misadventure'... if they have no concrete provable evidence that the boy was in fact taken, then they can't know for sure that it was NOT misadventure. Maybe an agreement was hatched wherein Jubes asked for x amount of time, and he'd get x amount of monetary resources, and he'd prove that it couldn't have been misadventure. To do so means he has to come up with bonafide evidence that he was 'taken'. Coroner agrees and says great, let's keep in touch, in fact I will likely come out to the search site at some point.. blah blah. My thoughts only.

Although my mind is also racing that a tip of some kind came to light, strong enough to get permission for all of this.. but it also feels way too public, like it's a show, and trying a last ditch effort to scare someone out.

 

[deugirtni]

I really don't understand NC's reaction to all this. Wouldn't you be grateful that the police are still putting so much effort into finding out what happened to William? Even if his body is not in this location (she seems sure about that ), then at least the police are looking for clues and that's something to be thankful for. Heck, even if they are not looking for clues and just trying to get a step closer to a coronial inquest, that is also a good thing.

Personally, if I try to put myself in the shoes of the bio fam, I could see being annoyed with this, because it really does feel like lip service, PR, call it what yo will. I hope that it is not, and thinking about the money and resources and time that this exercise will take makes me really cross my fingers that it can only be for a good reason, as opposed to just show. I don't think I would ever have been annoyed to the point of being all over the papers about it.. however, I can imagine that MSM was all over HER, knowing that they could get her to comment, and make news, and sell ads. jmo.

edited for typos

 

[they'll get you]

I would love to be a fly on the wall in TJ and BS’s houses right now whilst this search is going on.

BS is still my No.1 connection.
Thoughout all these years he's escaped a very dark, disgusting history even up to late. He knows how to hide his tracks and keep his mouth shut. Look at what the cops have discovered about him since William disappeared!
He's worried yes, but IMO he believes he's Teflon coated and he's got his needy devoted wife to back him up and his lawyer is telling him that they can't pin anything on him. In fact he's sueing MSM for wrong information. Cocky to say the least!
TJ & Co. is just a diversion IMO.

With the end result we will either cheer saying we all knew who it was or be absolutely hit left field gobsmacked!

Sometimes coincidence just can't be a coincidence, I'm talking that 6 degres again....

 

[deugirtni]

If the cops came to my door and said we need rip up your pavers.
Id be go for it. Ill fix it up later.

If the police find no misadventure or human intervention...



9 Benaroon Dr, Kendall NSW 2439

Google Maps

Yes I'm sure, however, if you had been someone that had something to do with this, you may not be so amenable?

 

[deugirtni]

IMO they have to absolutely rule out misadventure so they can pounce.

If they had something to pounce on, they would, wouldn't they?

 

[k-mac]

BS is still my No.1 connection.
Thoughout all these years he's escaped a very dark, disgusting history even up to late. He knows how to hide his tracks and keep his mouth shut. Look at what the cops have discovered about him since William disappeared!
He's worried yes, but IMO he believes he's Teflon coated and he's got his needy devoted wife to back him up and his lawyer is telling him that they can't pin anything on him. In fact he's sueing MSM for wrong information. Cocky to say the least!
TJ & Co. is just a diversion IMO.



With the end result we will either cheer saying we all knew who it was or be absolutely hit left field gobsmacked!

Sometimes coincidence just can't be a coincidence, I'm talking that 6 degres again....

not ALL of us will be gobsmacked tgy

sorry that edited wrong originally

 

[deugirtni]

SBM. BBM.

Interesting. The toy was hidden in the undergrowth. Makes me think it was a fair way out in the bush, not near a house.

I'm surprised they're making a splash about a toy found, when they don't even know if it's connected to WT in any way? Hopefully it's just MSM that's making this look like a 'show'. moo.

 

[louisepiglet]

Doesn't anyone else think it is an amazing coincidence that we find out BC has been digging recently and, now, after all this time, there is a new police search going on.

 

[kiwi50]

Im 99.999% convinced William is dead and the police know exactly who did it.
I would still have a problem if I was a juror convicting anyone without a body in this case.Maybe its because the children were playing hide and seek, and the intent is to hide, maybe William had longer to hide if L was inside in the bathroom.
I really think they need to find William’s body to get a conviction.

 

[deugirtni]

i just did a google street view and this property appears to be 9 benaroon drive which is also on the corner of batar creek rd, you can see the same swing set inside the front fence corner, although other properties may have the same swings?

Here's an old article about the neighbours at the time. (At the time LH lived at 9 Benaroon). Just as a note, the googlemaps image showing on my screen is from 2010... it's possible that swingset could have been given to any neighbour, or whatever. Great sleuthing though!
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[louisepiglet]

Im 99.999% convinced William is dead and the police know exactly who did it.
I would still have a problem if I was a juror convicting anyone without a body in this case.Maybe its because the children were playing hide and seek, and the intent is to hide, maybe William had longer to hide if L was inside in the bathroom.
I really think they need to find William’s body to get a conviction.

I agree with you regarding convicting without a body. There would be too much reasonable doubt.

 

[gregjrichards]

Im 99.999% convinced William is dead and the police know exactly who did it.
I would still have a problem if I was a juror convicting anyone without a body in this case.Maybe its because the children were playing hide and seek, and the intent is to hide, maybe William had longer to hide if L was inside in the bathroom.
I really think they need to find William’s body to get a conviction.

For me it would depend on the evidence they have. For example if they had an individual(s) on tape admitting what they had done and forensic evidence supporting it I could convict especially with no death penalty in Australia.

 

[sosocurious]

BS is still my No.1 connection.
Thoughout all these years he's escaped a very dark, disgusting history even up to late. He knows how to hide his tracks and keep his mouth shut. Look at what the cops have discovered about him since William disappeared!
He's worried yes, but IMO he believes he's Teflon coated and he's got his needy devoted wife to back him up and his lawyer is telling him that they can't pin anything on him. In fact he's sueing MSM for wrong information. Cocky to say the least!
TJ & Co. is just a diversion IMO.

With the end result we will either cheer saying we all knew who it was or be absolutely hit left field gobsmacked!

Sometimes coincidence just can't be a coincidence, I'm talking that 6 degres again....

Ditto tgy

Those links are just amazing.
Where are the sped's residing these days, I wonder?