Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[frogwell]

I agree, the source is unreliable. However, supervised visits were the go, and there was a reason for that ... whatever that reason may have been.


Before his disappearance in September 2014, William did have supervised visits with his mother, contrary to some media reports.
However it’s understood these visits were infrequent and that William identified his foster family as his parents and was known to the public by their surname (which can’t be disclosed) and not “Tyrrell”.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

At what stage would a child start to be identified as a different surname in a fostering process? Wouldn't that be a risk if the placement changed?

 

[Karinna]

At what stage would a child start to be identified as a different surname in a fostering process? Wouldn't that be a risk if the placement changed?

Good question frogwell.
I would think the child's surname would only be able to change with adoption? And would entail a legal process.
(quote)
Children's Name Change


There are many legal matters and ramifications of changing the name of a child (person under 18 years of age). We recommend you contact your local Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages for further information on the process for changing a child's name. You may also need to contact a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. Links to each state's Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages is on the right hand side of this page.
How to legally change a child's name

 

[SouthAussie]

At what stage would a child start to be identified as a different surname in a fostering process? Wouldn't that be a risk if the placement changed?

I don't think William's placement was ever intended to be changed, from what we have read. By the time William was 3 years old, perhaps formal adoption was already underway, close to completion, one step away from being finalised?

In which case, the foster mum's comment of "oh no, they did it" (or whatever it was that she said that made us wonder if she had been afraid that someone would take William) might fall into context.

What will change if my child is adopted?
- Your child’s surname might be changed so they have the same name as their adoptive parents. You should ask your caseworker whether that is the plan for your child.
When kids in care are adopted - Legal Aid NSW

It is understood William’s foster agreement with his new parents in Sydney’s northern suburbs was intended to be a permanent arrangement.
His biological mother was aware of the intention.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

Even if it wasn't a scheduled visit with BP's, doesn't foster carers need to report either to an agency/FACS of their intention of going on holidays??

Hi CuriousCritter, refer to SouthAussies post that I have quoted below. Most interesting and informative post for sure!

Would the BP's have had direct contact with the FP's in a permanent placement situation?

Probably not. I have known folks to bend the rules though, dangerous as it is under the circumstances.

I think from previous discussion of the topic that KT didn't have a lot of visitation with her children, and would of been court ordered as to how often she could visit with her children in such a situation?

Yes, I remember the previous discussion too. I was both surprised and shocked at the lengthy time inbetween visits and remember being saddened by it a great deal. I remember thinking *to myself* That is far too long to keep a mother from her children and vice versa. Who's best interests are at heart here? I thought it very cruel to be honest, but that's just me!

I think the foster parents need to inform FACS of their intentions to go away, but the bio parents do not need to know where ... if it was their visitation day/weekend. They would just need to reschedule the visitation.
If it was not their visitation day/weekend, they would not be told anything at all.

With Karlie and Brendan hiding William for several months in the past, I kinda doubt that FACS would give them any more information than was required.

There is a whole chart here about who makes the decisions for a foster child (starts at Page 100 of link) in many given situations. In a supervised-visit situation, like William's, it seems that FACS make the decisions in conjunction with the foster parents, with regard to his contact with his bio parents.

https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/321330/Caring-for-Kids-combined.pdf

Thanks, SouthAussie.

 

[sleepinoz]

I don't think William's placement was ever intended to be changed, from what we have read. By the time William was 3 years old, perhaps formal adoption was already underway, close to completion, one step away from being finalised?

In which case, the foster mum's comment of "oh no, they did it" (or whatever it was that she said that made us wonder if she had been afraid that someone would take William) might fall into context.

What will change if my child is adopted?
- Your child’s surname might be changed so they have the same name as their adoptive parents. You should ask your caseworker whether that is the plan for your child.
When kids in care are adopted - Legal Aid NSW

It is understood William’s foster agreement with his new parents in Sydney’s northern suburbs was intended to be a permanent arrangement.
His biological mother was aware of the intention.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

A name change could also be approved due to safety IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

A name change could also be approved due to safety IMO

Yes, for sure, if there is a danger of parental abduction or such. imo

There is an interesting article here about changing a foster child's name (overseas). Many different angles of a name change are spoken about.

Another foster parent has shared that she changed her children’s names to protect them from identity theft. The biological parents have the children’s names and social security numbers; she wanted to make sure they would not be taken advantage of.
The Pro's and Con's of Changing A Foster Childs Name After Adoption —

 

[SouthAussie]

"What does a court look at to decide what a child's surname should be:

- The welfare of the child (this being the paramount consideration of the Court)
- The short and long term effects of the change in the child's surname
- Any embarrassment likely to be experienced by the child if their name is different from that of the parent who has day to day responsibility for the child
........ (more)"

Matters considered by Courts making Orders about a Child’s Name – DIY Family Law Austraila

 

[Karinna]

I don't think William's placement was ever intended to be changed, from what we have read. By the time William was 3 years old, perhaps formal adoption was already underway, close to completion, one step away from being finalised?

In which case, the foster mum's comment of "oh no, they did it" (or whatever it was that she said that made us wonder if she had been afraid that someone would take William) might fall into context.

What will change if my child is adopted?
- Your child’s surname might be changed so they have the same name as their adoptive parents. You should ask your caseworker whether that is the plan for your child.
When kids in care are adopted - Legal Aid NSW

It is understood William’s foster agreement with his new parents in Sydney’s northern suburbs was intended to be a permanent arrangement.
His biological mother was aware of the intention.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

BBM, I doubt that very much because KT from what i recall in the Caselaw document was still going through the legal system to get her child L, (WT's sister) back into her custody, and if William hadn't still of been missing i would think the same would apply to him.
I did also find a Govt. site ages ago that stated that with any adoption that the biological parents have to approve the adoption. I doubt KT would sign such paperwork for obvious reasons.
If i can find the link to that info. i will post it.

 

[Karinna]

"What does a court look at to decide what a child's surname should be:

- The welfare of the child (this being the paramount consideration of the Court)
- The short and long term effects of the change in the child's surname
- Any embarrassment likely to be experienced by the child if their name is different from that of the parent who has day to day responsibility for the child
........ (more)"

Matters considered by Courts making Orders about a Child’s Name – DIY Family Law Austraila

Well all msm articles pertaining to WT have named William by his mother's surname. For legal reasons?

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM, I doubt that very much because KT from what i recall in the Caselaw document was still going through the legal system to get her child L, (WT's sister) back into her custody, and if William hadn't still of been missing i would think the same would apply to him.
I did also find a Govt. site ages ago that stated that with any adoption that the biological parents have to approve the adoption. I doubt KT would sign such paperwork for obvious reasons.
If i can find the link to that info. i will post it.

Apparently, according to this article, it is up to the Courts whether or not a child's name can be changed.

An Order of the Court can be made for the person with Sole Responsibility for the child. In William's case, that would be the Minister (FACS). Cuts the bio parents right out of the loop, in this regard.

Can a Parent Change a Child’s Surname – DIY Family Law Austraila

 

[SouthAussie]

Well all msm articles pertaining to WT have named William by his mother's surname. For legal reasons?

For protection of William and his sister?

 

[sleepinoz]

For protection of William and his sister?

They did take off with him before, so protection is a very real possibility.

 

[SouthAussie]

They did take off with him before, so protection is a very real possibility.

Yes, it is sounding more and more that FACS were not playing around after the parental interference.

The supervised visitation, the surname change .... perhaps other measures, too.

 

[Karinna]

Apparently, according to this article, it is up to the Courts whether or not a child's name can be changed.

An Order of the Court can be made for the person with Sole Responsibility for the child. In William's case, that would be the Minister (FACS). Cuts the bio parents right out of the loop, in this regard.

Can a Parent Change a Child’s Surname – DIY Family Law Austraila

Well we don't know about any of that, so who knows?
My post you quoted had to do with the Tyrrell children being adopted by the FP's.

 

[Wexford]

All I can say to that is .... the unluckiest washing machine repairman in the world, hey.
(attributed to Wexford, I always think of that comment when it comes to Spedding)

"Giles, there are two things that I don't believe in: coincidence and leprechauns."

SouthAussie, there are two things that I don't believe in: coincidence and yowies.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, I remember the previous discussion too. I was both surprised and shocked at the lengthy time inbetween visits and remember being saddened by it a great deal. I remember thinking *to myself* That is far too long to keep a mother from her children and vice versa. Who's best interests are at heart here? I thought it very cruel to be honest, but that's just me!

I am not sure that we can believe that Karlie had sporadic visits with William all of the time.

I don't believe Karlie mentioned that, herself, in her TV interview (not that I can recall, anyway). I believe it was just Natalie Collins stating that .... mostly about Brendan seeing William imo. During the period when Brendan was with Karlie. And when he wasn't incarcerated. And possibly when he was not struggling with other problems.

We know that what Natalie said is not the complete (and perhaps, accurate) story, because many of us have seen a photo of William with Karlie in a park during visitation.

Natalie said that after William was finally removed from Brendan and Karlie’s care, the pair had infrequent visiting rights and could only see him at a public shopping centre near Ryde.
Stunning new revelations about the day William Tyrrell vanished

 

[Warshawski]

You would still think if it's a choice of the grandchildren going into care and her husband moving out for a period of time, the choice would be the grandchildren to stay.

Hi sleep, do we know if the children went into 'care' or back to their father ?

 

[sleepinoz]

Hi sleep, do we know if the children went into 'care' or back to their father ?

I don't know for sure, but I think they went to another family member. AFAIK the father still see's them so things could have changed.

 

[Warshawski]

I don't think William's placement was ever intended to be changed, from what we have read. By the time William was 3 years old, perhaps formal adoption was already underway, close to completion, one step away from being finalised?

In which case, the foster mum's comment of "oh no, they did it" (or whatever it was that she said that made us wonder if she had been afraid that someone would take William) might fall into context.

What will change if my child is adopted?
- Your child’s surname might be changed so they have the same name as their adoptive parents. You should ask your caseworker whether that is the plan for your child.
When kids in care are adopted - Legal Aid NSW

It is understood William’s foster agreement with his new parents in Sydney’s northern suburbs was intended to be a permanent arrangement.
His biological mother was aware of the intention.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

I think this might have been NC's uttering - JMO & scrambled memory!

 

[Karinna]

I am not sure that we can believe that Karlie had sporadic visits with William all of the time.

I don't believe Karlie mentioned that, herself, in her TV interview (not that I can recall, anyway). I believe it was just Natalie Collins stating that .... mostly about Brendan seeing William imo. During the period when Brendan was with Karlie. And when he wasn't incarcerated. And possibly when he was not struggling with other problems.

We know that what Natalie said is not the complete (and perhaps, accurate) story, because many of us have seen a photo of William with Karlie in a park during visitation.

Natalie said that after William was finally removed from Brendan and Karlie’s care, the pair had infrequent visiting rights and could only see him at a public shopping centre near Ryde.
Stunning new revelations about the day William Tyrrell vanished

BBM, Why would they have to have visitation at a public shopping centre? That sounds a bit bizarre IMO.
Don't the FACS have anywhere else parents can visit their child at their facility? Like a family room or something?