Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[Tinker Taylor]

I wasn't at the inquest but that info came from Beacroft's evidence if that helps.....

Both of the Crabbs gave evidence on 26 March 2019. It has been reported variously as a "car" a "vehicle" and a "ute". It was said not to have stopped and also to have stopped about long enough to deliver mail. They were also reported to have returned from their walk at 9.30am, when the neighbourhood was busy with people searching for WT, which of course is not correct because he wasn't missed till much later. So because of this contradictory evidence, I wanted to hear in their exact words what they said.

 

[SouthAussie]

Both of the Crabbs gave evidence on 26 March 2019. It has been reported variously as a "car" a "vehicle" and a "ute". It was said not to have stopped and also to have stopped about long enough to deliver mail. They were also reported to have returned from their walk at 9.30am, when the neighbourhood was busy with people searching for WT, which of course is not correct because he wasn't missed till much later. So because of this contradictory evidence, I wanted to hear in their exact words what they said.

BBM: Could you please provide a link to your information?

 

[SLouTh]

Thanks @stormbird , I had quite forgotten this .....

He thought the car had stopped to do a U-turn, or maybe turn in a circle [?], before heading off again.
'It didn't stop at [PS's], it stopped at [FGM's],' he said. 'I don't know how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. It stopped, and then it kept going.'

[Ms C] also remembers hearing that car.

BBM
MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks @stormbird , I had quite forgotten this .....


BBM
MOO

If that is in response to my question of Tinker, and not for stormbird - who you personally addressed - where does that info come from?

I can't tell from that small portion of someone else's post who is saying what. Or what the link is.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

If that is in response to my question of Tinker, and not for stormbird - who you personally addressed - where does that info come from?

I can't tell from that small portion of someone else's post who is saying what. Or what the link is.

See post #551. It is from CO's book.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

If the time that HS left is correct at 10.37am, or even if it was 10.30am, doesn't this mean that WT had not been missed by then? According to FM she immediately went searching in the street.

 

[stormbird]

A photo showing part of page 75 in Caroline Overington's 2020 book, Missing William Tyrrell:



<modsnip: off topic>

 

[SouthAussie]

[

A photo showing part of page 75 in Caroline Overington's 2020 book, Missing William Tyrrell:

View attachment 258742

<modsnip: off topic>

<modsnip>

Just so you know, I was not disputing the info. I just hadn't seen it, and am pretty good at remembering most things about this case. So I wanted more info about it. <modsnip>

I have actually used some of your past posts - way back in the threads - to find more info when it is required.

A little odd how Mr Crabb thought the vehicle stopped to turn outside #48, and not anywhere else in that general vicinity ... when neither Crabb saw the vehicle, and were sitting on their back porch. I personally don't think that can be relied on with any accuracy. The turnaround could have been in front of any end-of-the-street house.

 

[drsleuth]

Mr and Mr 51B heard a vehicle turn around in front of No 48 about 10.05am

Hoping someone who was at the inquest that day can confirm from their notes the time and how the couple described the vehicle?

I wasn’t aware that the Crabb’s stated the car that sounded like the postie actually stopped in front of no. 48 and that it was 10.05am. That’s very interesting indeed.

From my notes:

The Crabb's said they got home about 09:30 - 09:35 ( in their initial statement they said 10:30 but was later changed as their movements retrace by police , they had gone to a butcher )

PC said he heard a vehicle about 10 mins after getting home. Thought it was the postie.

SC said she heard a car about 40 mins after getting home. Thought postmans car. She said it came up reasonably fast ( as postie does) , did u-turn & continued on it's way.

She also said around ??11am saw couple coming up driveway ( FP's)

There was no mention of this car stopping

 

[SouthAussie]

From my notes:

The Crabb's said they got home about 09:30 - 09:35 ( in their initial statement they said 10:30 but was later changed as their movements retrace by police , they had gone to a butcher )

PC said he heard a vehicle about 10 mins after getting home. Thought it was the postie.

SC said she heard a car about 40 mins after getting home. Thought postmans car. She said it came up reasonably fast ( as postie does) , did u-turn & continued on it's way.

She also said around ??11am saw couple coming up driveway ( FP's)

There was no mention of this car stopping

That sounds as though that fits with postie doing her Benaroon Drive round earlier than usual that day.


Lia Harris: The post woman delivered the mail around ten or ten-thirty each morning, which is the time that William disappeared on September 12, 2014. And the court heard, on that particular morning she had delivered the mail earlier than she normally did.
Was it an Accident?

 

[drsleuth]

A photo showing part of page 75 in Caroline Overington's 2020 book, Missing William Tyrrell:

View attachment 258742

<modsnip: off topic>

I think CO may have embellished the Crabb's evidence in her book a bit IMO

Neither of them mentioned that the car they heard had stopped.

It's quite narrow up that end of Benaroon. I've been there & had to do a 3 point turn ( I didn't drive on anyone's front foorpath or driveway )

There are only 3 houses once you turn at the dog leg ( well there are 4 now as there is a new house on the block next to the Crabb's ) , the Crabb's # 51, Millers & # 48 FGM's

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I'm still trying to pinpoint the time WT was last seen by FFC and the time she noticed he was missing.

FFC phoned 000 at 10.57am. (She said she had been searching for approx 15mins).

MFC sent a text to say he would be 5 mins at 10.30am. (When he got home FFC asked if he had WT with him. Then she phoned 000)

HS left at either 10.30am or 10.37am which was before WT was missed (and presumably after he had been taken).

FFC said she went inside to make tea just before 10am. (Presumably this was the last time she saw WT).

 

[drsleuth]

I'm still trying to pinpoint the time WT was last seen by FFC and the time she noticed he was missing.

FFC phoned 000 at 10.57am. (She said she had been searching for approx 15mins).

MFC sent a text to say he would be 5 mins at 10.30am. (When he got home FFC asked if he had WT with him. Then she phoned 000)

HS left at either 10.30am or 10.37am which was before WT was missed (and presumably after he had been taken).

FFC said she went inside to make tea just before 10am. (Presumably this was the last time she saw WT).

BBM : That wasn't the last time the FFC, FGM or Lindsay saw WT.

After making the cups of tea they were all out on the back deck. Lindsay was drawing etc, WT was playing Daddy Tiger, WT was getting bored, played dice game , WT became bored again ( played the dice game for about 1 minute ) , than WT playing Daddy tiger again, running around corner, roaring like a tiger , than silence & he's gone .......................

 

[SLouTh]

CO is not the only journalist that said the vehicle went towards the FGM's home....
This piece is by Chelsea McLaughlin - a Senior News Writer

During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when they heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.
www.[link removed].au/william-tyrrell-latest/

 

[SouthAussie]

CO is not the only journalist that said the vehicle went towards the FGM's home....
This piece is by Chelsea McLaughlin - a Senior News Writer

During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when they heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.
www.***********.au/william-tyrrell-latest/

I think people are concerned about the possible embellishment that the vehicle stopped. Not that it was heard on the street.

Turning around doesn't mean the vehicle stopped, just that it paused very briefly as gears were changed. Maybe one second. Likely not enough time to open the car door, get out, grab a small boy, throw him in the vehicle, get back in, close the car door, and take off.

I notice nobody mentions hearing a car door closing on that very quiet street.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm still trying to pinpoint the time WT was last seen by FFC and the time she noticed he was missing.

FFC phoned 000 at 10.57am. (She said she had been searching for approx 15mins).

MFC sent a text to say he would be 5 mins at 10.30am. (When he got home FFC asked if he had WT with him. Then she phoned 000)

HS left at either 10.30am or 10.37am which was before WT was missed (and presumably after he had been taken).

FFC said she went inside to make tea just before 10am. (Presumably this was the last time she saw WT).

Jubes was very concerned about Savage and his accounts for that day.
It may well be that the times for Heather leaving are nowhere near correct.

I am not sure that this aspect should be included (for accuracy sake) in any potential timeline.
We just don't know anything (independent of Savage) about Heather's movements that morning. Just that she went to bingo.
When did she arrive at bingo? Did she stop anywhere first? I am sure the police know, but for some reason neither the inquest nor the media have released that info, or any potential statement from Heather (which I am pretty sure was said in Lia's podcasts that Heather supplied). Unless I have missed it.

 

[SLouTh]

As the inquest is focusing on William being abducted (possibly by vehicle) this car being heard at FGM home seems like the most plausible scenario...... I was focusing on the location - FGM's home..... and if William was abducted this way, the vehicle would of had to have paused or stopped for some period - even only briefly ...

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I think people are concerned about the possible embellishment that the vehicle stopped. Not that it was heard on the street.

Turning around doesn't mean the vehicle stopped, just that it paused very briefly as gears were changed. Maybe one second. Likely not enough time to open the car door, get out, grab a small boy, throw him in the vehicle, get back in, close the car door, and take off.

I notice nobody mentions hearing a car door closing on that very quiet street.

Not suggesting that he was taken at that stage. He may well have been taken earlier.

There would be no reason for the Crabbs to believe it was the postie, unless the car behaved like the postie, ie, it seemed to be delivering mail. A car simply doing a u-turn in the street wouldn't qualify as "postie-like". The postie wouldn't go down the dead end road unless he/she had mail for someone.

 

[SouthAussie]

Not suggesting that he was taken at that stage. He may well have been taken earlier.

There would be no reason for the Crabbs to believe it was the postie, unless the car behaved like the postie, ie, it seemed to be delivering mail. A car simply doing a u-turn in the street wouldn't qualify as "postie-like". The postie wouldn't go down the dead end road unless he/she had mail for someone.

The Crabbs said that it sounded like postie's vehicle. Which is why we spent a lot of time trying to establish what kind of vehicle postie had, and what vehicles sounded like that.

The couple both heard a car on Benaroon Drive that Friday before they were told about the missing boy, which they say did a U-turn before it drove off but sounded exactly like the postman.
Desperate search for William captured

I have always wondered if postie/whoever turned around at Ellendale, where the road is wider. Seems that the vehicle did not stop, but did a U-turn, and that is the widest area in which to do a U-turn. And could have still been heard but not seen by the Crabbs.

 

[stormbird]

Was anyone who was on the back deck at FGM's (No.48) able to verify the accounts given by Mr and Mrs C? The back deck is about 20 or 30 metres from the road. When the photos of William were taken on the deck (which would have been about the time Mr and Mrs C drove home) FGM was sitting in a chair angled towards the driveway at No.51 on the northern end of Benaroon Drive.