Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[SouthAussie]

Was anyone who was on the back deck at FGM's (No.48) able to verify the accounts given by Mr and Mrs C? The back deck is about 20 or 30 metres from the road. When the photos of William were taken on the deck (which would have been about the time Mr and Mrs C drove home) FGM was sitting in a chair angled towards the driveway at No.51 on the northern end of Benaroon Drive.

Not that I have seen anywhere.
Which is why I wonder if the vehicle did the u-turn on Benaroon at Ellendale (or in front of Savage's house). They might not have heard that, being sound-shielded from Ellendale - and from outside Savage's - by their own house.
We have seen a pretty clear view from/to the street in front of #51 to FGM's back patio.



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[interested64]

I think people are concerned about the possible embellishment that the vehicle stopped. Not that it was heard on the street.

Turning around doesn't mean the vehicle stopped, just that it paused very briefly as gears were changed. Maybe one second. Likely not enough time to open the car door, get out, grab a small boy, throw him in the vehicle, get back in, close the car door, and take off.

I notice nobody mentions hearing a car door closing on that very quiet street.

I agree that has never been mentioned?? maybe no car was involved at all

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree that has never been mentioned?? maybe no car was involved at all

I think I am one of the very few people here that think it is very possible that no car was involved ... at least not in the abduction. Maybe later on, if William was moved on to somewhere else.

I was watching a show the other night that said most child abductions/assaults are not planned. They are opportunistic. That a child abuser does not wake up and think "I am going to abduct a child today". They just stumble upon an opportunity and take and/or abuse the child.

There a lot of examples of this ... Cherish Perrywinkle being one of them, whose case I am very familiar with on WS.

 

[SouthAussie]

These cases are typically reported to a law enforcement agency as a “missing child.” Often there is no initial indication of foul play, just a report that the child is unaccounted for. This is a difficult time for the investigator, not knowing whether the “missing child” is simply late in returning home, is the victim of foul play, or has been abducted.

• In 44 percent of the cases studied, the victims and killers were strangers, but in 42 percent of the cases, the victims and killers were friends or acquaintances.
• Only about 14 percent of the cases studied involved parents or intimates killing the child.
• The primary motive for the child abduction killer in the cases studied was sexual assault.
  
• In 76 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction–and in 88.5 percent of the cases the child was dead within 24 hours.
• Be aware that children are not immune from abduction because they are close to home. More than half of the study’s abductions took place within three city blocks of the victim’s home.
• Be certain that your children are supervised – even if they are in their own front yard or neighborhood street.
• Approximately one-third of the abductions studied took occurred within one-half block of the victim’s home.

Child Abduction Murder Research | Washington State

 

[interested64]

I think I am one of the very few people here that think it is very possible that no car was involved ... at least not in the abduction. Maybe later on, if William was moved on to somewhere else.

I was watching a show the other night that said most child abductions/assaults are not planned. They are opportunistic. That a child abuser does not wake up and think "I am going to abduct a child today". They just stumble an opportunity and take and/or abuse the child.

There a lot of examples of this ... Cherish Perrywinkle being one of them, whose case I am very familiar with on WS.

Im one..no one heard anything in a quiet street..just most likely the early postie..i do believe plenty may have seen him that morning earlier .. from what i see as the middle of the lawn..he went PS way or he went the bush rd way

 

[interested64]

Not that I have seen anywhere.
Which is why I wonder if the vehicle did the u-turn on Benaroon at Ellendale (or in front of Savage's house). They might not have heard that, being sound-shielded from Ellendale - and from outside Savage's - by their own house.
We have seen a pretty clear view from/to the street in front of #51 to FGM's back patio.

View attachment 258762

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kids making a noise .. fgm hearing ? fm kettle boiling

 

[purpleandgreen]

I agree that has never been mentioned?? maybe no car was involved at all

Maybe just someone with a good view of the street coming home from a morning walk to visit a ‘friend’ in a caravan?

 

[Loxoli]

I agree that has never been mentioned?? maybe no car was involved at all

That is why I was so surprised when it was mentioned that the car stopped. AFAIK, the investigators have never given an indication that they ruled out anyone on foot or were certain there was a car involved. I’m puzzled though, because the screenshot of CO’s book posted earlier has the statement from the Crabb’s as a direct quote. Surely she couldn’t do that unless it was verbatim? IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

That is why I was so surprised when it was mentioned that the car stopped. AFAIK, the investigators have never given an indication that they ruled out anyone on foot or were certain there was a car involved. I’m puzzled though, because the screenshot of CO’s book posted earlier has the statement from the Crabb’s as a direct quote. Surely she couldn’t do that unless it was verbatim? IMO

Well, dr sleuth didn't hear that at all ... and they were at the actual inquest, making very good and consistent notes. Not distracted by anyone.

Unless CO is afraid of being sued by the Crabbs (who likely wouldn't dream of doing that), I am pretty sure she could write whatever she wants, whatever she thinks she heard, whatever she has surmised. It is evidently not damaging to the case.

I am pretty sure that Trump doesn't like what Mary Trump wrote in her book about him. Thinks it is inaccurate. But the book was still published anyway.

 

[Warshawski]

[QUOTE="SouthAussie, post: 16277193, member: 88815""....".................

Lia Harris: The post woman delivered the mail around ten or ten-thirty each morning, which is the time that William disappeared on September 12, 2014. And the court heard, on that particular morning she had delivered the mail earlier than she normally did.
Was it an Accident?[/QUOTE]

thanks for the reminders SA. .... yet still, as I’ve always wondered, why the Change, on that particular day, to the Normal routine ?

 

[SouthAussie]

thanks for the reminders SA. .... yet still, as I’ve always wondered, why the Change, on that particular day, to the Normal routine ?

My guess is that she was having touble with Savage and his unwanted attention, so she varied her routine.
Perhaps postie thought she would do Benaroon Drive before Heather took off for bingo.

 

[stormbird]

Gary Jubelin's hearing (DC appeal) is listed for District Court tomorrow, Monday 10 Aug 2020.

NSW Online Registry: Search NSW Court Lists

 

[stormbird]

Two screenshots taken from "Where is William?" Sixty Minutes Australia, 2015 (on YouTube), which show the back deck at No.48 in relation to the northern end of Benaroon Drive where it heads towards Nos. 51 and 52 and the fire trail.

I added the labels:



Screenshot 1 (from 22:55)
- house numbers are positioned to show the entrances to driveways (FGM's house, No.48, has two); I couldn't see No.51's entrance, but it's in there somewhere
- the pink arrow from the back deck shows the direction which the two deck chairs (and the kitchen window behind them) were facing, but keep in mind the garden foliage might have prevented a view to the road



Screenshot 2 (from 10:48)
- back deck, carport, and Benaroon Drive nearby, but when filmed with a long lens (as this shot appears to be) distances get squashed together, so the road looks closer than it would do in person; also, presumably it was filmed in 2015, so the garden foliage might have changed or been cleared in the months since Sep 2014

 

[Loxoli]

Well, dr sleuth didn't hear that at all ... and they were at the actual inquest, making very good and consistent notes. Not distracted by anyone.

Unless CO is afraid of being sued by the Crabbs (who likely wouldn't dream of doing that), I am pretty sure she could write whatever she wants, whatever she thinks she heard, whatever she has surmised. It is evidently not damaging to the case.

I am pretty sure that Trump doesn't like what Mary Trump wrote in her book about him. Thinks it is inaccurate. But the book was still published anyway.

I just want to make it clear that I am definitely not disputing that it wasn’t heard at the inquest. I absolutely trust those who attended the inquest- their input is invaluable. I also trust all of the other various reporters who haven’t mentioned that the vehicle stopped.

I have perosnally questioned CO’s reporting in the past and don’t put a lot of stock into her investigations. However, I’m perplexed that she could legally put this in as a direct quote, not a paraphrase, without it being 100% accurate. I’m wondering if the Crabb’s told this to CO in an exclusive interview. Maybe the investigators questioned the accuracy of the Crabb’s beliefs that the vehicle stopped, like we have, and didn’t want the information released to the public or at the inquest without strong evidence.

 

[SouthAussie]

I just want to make it clear that I am definitely not disputing that it wasn’t heard at the inquest. I absolutely trust those who attended the inquest- their input is invaluable. I also trust all of the other various reporters who haven’t mentioned that the vehicle stopped.

I have perosnally questioned CO’s reporting in the past and don’t put a lot of stock into her investigations. However, I’m perplexed that she could legally put this in as a direct quote, not a paraphrase, without it being 100% accurate. I’m wondering if the Crabb’s told this to CO in an exclusive interview. Maybe the investigators questioned the accuracy of the Crabb’s beliefs that the vehicle stopped, like we have, and didn’t want the information released to the public or at the inquest without strong evidence.

Yes, no worries. I just think CO has an agenda, and writes/reports accordingly. My personal opinion of that has been formed over time. I much preferred the journalism about this case by her predecessor.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Have to agree about CO, SA.

 

[Loxoli]

Yes, no worries. I just think CO has an agenda, and writes/reports accordingly. My personal opinion of that has been formed over time. I much preferred the journalism about this case by her predecessor.

I agree. It’s frustrating that one of the few journalists who cover William’s case in any detail is so unreliable.

 

[drsleuth]

Wonder what ever happened to Candace Sutton??

 

[interested64]

My guess is that she was having touble with Savage and his unwanted attention, so she varied her routine.
Perhaps postie thought she would do Benaroon Drive before Heather took off for bingo.

I have also thought maybe while Heather was getting read ps popped out for a sneaky peek at the posty if her normal time was then,what was he doing at 9.40ish am that the crabs heard the car that sounded like the posty

 

[interested64]

Two screenshots taken from "Where is William?" Sixty Minutes Australia, 2015 (on YouTube), which show the back deck at No.48 in relation to the northern end of Benaroon Drive where it heads towards Nos. 51 and 52 and the fire trail.

I added the labels:

View attachment 258865

Screenshot 1 (from 22:55)
- house numbers are positioned to show the entrances to driveways (FGM's house, No.48, has two); I couldn't see No.51's entrance, but it's in there somewhere
- the pink arrow from the back deck shows the direction which the two deck chairs (and the kitchen window behind them) were facing, but keep in mind the garden foliage might have prevented a view to the road

View attachment 258866

Screenshot 2 (from 10:48)
- back deck, carport, and Benaroon Drive nearby, but when filmed with a long lens (as this shot appears to be) distances get squashed together, so the road looks closer than it would do in person; also, presumably it was filmed in 2015, so the garden foliage might have changed or been cleared in the months since Sep 2014

Yes likely you could miss someone walking past the house but i think you would hear a car if sitting on the deck at that end of the rd..sooo if William had run around onto the front lawn he is closest to 43 and the other weird owl in roof nieghbour..and a car may well have not been heard at that end,but i doubt it as the crabs heard car coming around the bend as they say..i still think no car took William..also is it that the Crabs heard a car at 9.40 and 10.05 or is it same car but not sure on time?