Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[stormbird]

Yes likely you could miss someone walking past the house but i think you would hear a car if sitting on the deck at that end of the rd..sooo if William had run around onto the front lawn he is closest to 43 and the other weird owl in roof nieghbour..and a car may well have not been heard at that end,but i doubt it as the crabs heard car coming around the bend as they say..i still think no car took William..also is it that the Crabs heard a car at 9.40 and 10.05 or is it same car but not sure on time?

I agree it's likely that FFC, FGM or William's sister would have heard or seen the postie-like vehicle if it was nearby when they were on the deck, and also they should have heard or seen Mr and Mrs C's car returning home about 9:30, but so far I haven't seen anyone confirm it.

My guess is that Mr and Mrs C were talking about one vehicle, each with a different idea about when they heard it. And if they weren't sure about the time, I think we can't be sure they're correct about the day either. They might have been listening out for the postie every day their neighbours were away, and if they only remembered the vehicle after some police questions prompted the memory, when were they asked? It might have been months later. So, unless somebody else in the street noticed the postie-like mystery vehicle, I'm a bit sceptical about it being there on the Friday morning.

If William had run down to the front lawn he likely would have been closest to No. 30 (Mr and Mrs W) and across the road from No. 35 (Nocturnal Man, maybe with the ceiling owl?), and No.31 (AMS). I put an arrow on the map from the other day to show the possible route:



And here's a screenshot showing what the area looks like down at the road, from 24:52 in "Where is William?" Sixty Minutes Australia (on YouTube), 2015:

 

[Blues Clues]

FFC's sense that William's last roar was him roaring at someone fits with him running around the corner and being confronted by someone. It depends on how far his little roar carried for it to be heard from the back deck, but could indicate the perpetrator was in the yard or close to the roadway on foot. From there did they run (with William) into their own yard or did they run and jump in a waiting car parked further down the street?

"She said that as she was doing the video," the social worker recalled, "She got to the point where she heard the last roar of William around the corner, and as she relived that, she was overcome with a sense that he wasn't just roaring. He was roaring at someone."

https://www.***********.au/william-tyrrell-theories/

 

[drsleuth]

Thinking of GJ today.......

 

[drsleuth]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris/status/1292605171428548609

Gary Jubelin has arrived at Downing Centre court for his appeal hearing this morning. The former lead Homicide detective on the William Tyrrell case is appealing his conviction for illegally recording conversations with a former suspect in the case.

 

[they'll get you]

Thinking of GJ today.......

 

[drsleuth]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

Jubelin’s barrister Margaret Cunneen told the court former Deputy Police Comissioner Nick Kaldas is among those who have written affidavits in his defence and may testify at the hearing.

The judge needs several days to read all the material, including the lengthy transcript of the original 10 day hearing in the local court. Jubelin’s appeal hearing will continue for submissions on Thursday at midday.


You'd think she would have read the transcript

 

[purpleandgreen]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

Jubelin’s barrister Margaret Cunneen told the court former Deputy Police Comissioner Nick Kaldas is among those who have written affidavits in his defence and may testify at the hearing.

The judge needs several days to read all the material, including the lengthy transcript of the original 10 day hearing in the local court. Jubelin’s appeal hearing will continue for submissions on Thursday at midday.


You'd think she would have read the transcript

What a croc of a system we have, IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

Jubelin’s barrister Margaret Cunneen told the court former Deputy Police Comissioner Nick Kaldas is among those who have written affidavits in his defence and may testify at the hearing.

The judge needs several days to read all the material, including the lengthy transcript of the original 10 day hearing in the local court. Jubelin’s appeal hearing will continue for submissions on Thursday at midday.


You'd think she would have read the transcript

Jubes is actually going before another male judge in the appeal ... nothing like being unprepared.
Margaret Cunneen wants him to read the whole transcript thoroughly though.


The "all-grounds" appeal began on Monday before District Court Judge Antony Townsden, who heard it would take about three days just to read and consider the transcripts from the 10-day local court hearing earlier this year.

Margaret Cunneen SC, who represented Jubelin in the local court, agreed that the court should not reconvene before Thursday at midday.
Judge Townsden would be assisted by reading the evidence in full rather than a summary, she said.

Gary Jubelin appeal over tapes kicks off

 

[JLZ]

Jubes is actually going before another male judge in the appeal ... nothing like being unprepared.
Margaret Cunneen wants him to read the whole transcript thoroughly though.


The "all-grounds" appeal began on Monday before District Court Judge Antony Townsden, who heard it would take about three days just to read and consider the transcripts from the 10-day local court hearing earlier this year.

Margaret Cunneen SC, who represented Jubelin in the local court, agreed that the court should not reconvene before Thursday at midday.
Judge Townsden would be assisted by reading the evidence in full rather than a summary, she said.

Gary Jubelin appeal over tapes kicks off

I'm thinking it might be against protocol for a judge to do their own research about a case before it comes on or indeed during. Like a jury isn't supposed to be looking things up relevant to the case they're hearing. The judge reads what's submitted for his/her consideration at the hearing by each side.

Edit: I don't mean they actually do the reading at the hearing, I mean the material is submitted at the hearing.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm thinking it might be against protocol for a judge to do their own research about a case before it comes on or indeed during. Like a jury isn't supposed to be looking things up relevant to the case they're hearing. The judge reads what's submitted for his/her consideration at the hearing by each side.

True. The prosecutor might have submitted a summary, and Margaret Cunneen might have submitted the whole transcript and asked Judge Townsden to please read that.

 

[Warshawski]

I think I am one of the very few people here that think it is very possible that no car was involved ... at least not in the abduction. Maybe later on, if William was moved on to somewhere else.

I was watching a show the other night that said most child abductions/assaults are not planned. They are opportunistic. That a child abuser does not wake up and think "I am going to abduct a child today". They just stumble upon an opportunity and take and/or abuse the child.

There a lot of examples of this ... Cherish Perrywinkle being one of them, whose case I am very familiar with on WS.

Hi SA,

Whatever my opinion / gut feeling counts for, I’ve consistently held the belief that William was not abducted from roadside by someone in a vehicle (have suggested same in forum)

IMO he was taken via side boundary to FG’s.

I’m not discounting the relevance of certain vehicles / people in the Street that morning as I believe this was planned. .. so things need to be checked out etc. ..
Sadly, the longer there’s no solution, the better it seems was their planning!

As a side note - the Kendall area seems to have been crawling with people displaying a multitude of unsavoury & unacceptable behaviour traits, then combined with their extended comradeship.

All the above just my own opinion, as is the fact that I hold fast to my belief that the Truth will eventually be revealed & justice upheld.
The more I hear of the recent solving of crimes committed 20, 30 etc years ago, the more I feel for those involved in William’s disappearance & the future that awaits them, if they don’t open up & show some realness now.

 

[Warshawski]

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris

Jubelin’s barrister Margaret Cunneen told the court former Deputy Police Comissioner Nick Kaldas is among those who have written affidavits in his defence and may testify at the hearing.

The judge needs several days to read all the material, including the lengthy transcript of the original 10 day hearing in the local court. Jubelin’s appeal hearing will continue for submissions on Thursday at midday.


You'd think she would have read the transcript

Yep Dr, that was my immediate thought when I heard the Judge’s comments!

OMG - do they preside over an Appeal with no prior knowledge or preparedness ?

Is there anyone here able to correct me on what appears to be a great inefficiency & time wasting in our Court system ?

 

[Warshawski]

Jubes is actually going before another male judge in the appeal ... nothing like being unprepared.
Margaret Cunneen wants him to read the whole transcript thoroughly though.


The "all-grounds" appeal began on Monday before District Court Judge Antony Townsden, who heard it would take about three days just to read and consider the transcripts from the 10-day local court hearing earlier this year.

Margaret Cunneen SC, who represented Jubelin in the local court, agreed that the court should not reconvene before Thursday at midday.
Judge Townsden would be assisted by reading the evidence in full rather than a summary, she said.

Gary Jubelin appeal over tapes kicks off

Isn’t it great that we provide ‘assistant readers’ for out highly powerful Judges.

I’m surprised - actually, more shocked, that people at that honourable position in our society are not actually capable of ‘reading’ & ‘comprehending’ !

For sure there’s a need for a major reset. .. as I pray for justice for Gary & for William.

 

[stormbird]

FFC's sense that William's last roar was him roaring at someone fits with him running around the corner and being confronted by someone. It depends on how far his little roar carried for it to be heard from the back deck, but could indicate the perpetrator was in the yard or close to the roadway on foot. From there did they run (with William) into their own yard or did they run and jump in a waiting car parked further down the street?

"She said that as she was doing the video," the social worker recalled, "She got to the point where she heard the last roar of William around the corner, and as she relived that, she was overcome with a sense that he wasn't just roaring. He was roaring at someone."

https://www.***********.au/william-tyrrell-theories/

The quote in Blues Clues' post mentions that FFC did a video (presumably the walk-through interview for police). Was this shown at the inquest, or has anybody seen it? If so, did FFC point out where she thought William could have been when he was roaring? Did it show which areas of the garden she and William had visited earlier in the morning? Thanks.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Hi SA,

Whatever my opinion / gut feeling counts for, I’ve consistently held the belief that William was not abducted from roadside by someone in a vehicle (have suggested same in forum)

IMO he was taken via side boundary to FG’s.

I’m not discounting the relevance of certain vehicles / people in the Street that morning as I believe this was planned. .. so things need to be checked out etc. ..
Sadly, the longer there’s no solution, the better it seems was their planning!

As a side note - the Kendall area seems to have been crawling with people displaying a multitude of unsavoury & unacceptable behaviour traits, then combined with their extended comradeship.

All the above just my own opinion, as is the fact that I hold fast to my belief that the Truth will eventually be revealed & justice upheld.
The more I hear of the recent solving of crimes committed 20, 30 etc years ago, the more I feel for those involved in William’s disappearance & the future that awaits them, if they don’t open up & show some realness now.

I've read through the thread and I have to agree with you, my leaning is about about the side rather than down the front and also combined with those cars seen earlier.

 

[Warshawski]

I'm thinking it might be against protocol for a judge to do their own research about a case before it comes on or indeed during. Like a jury isn't supposed to be looking things up relevant to the case they're hearing. The judge reads what's submitted for his/her consideration at the hearing by each side.

Edit: I don't mean they actually do the reading at the hearing, I mean the material is submitted at the hearing.

umm, well ok JLZ, I do see where you’re coming from ... but I also see relevant that this is an Appeal. It’s not as if there’s not already a known case.
It concerns me the time / $$ that are spent in our Courts.
IMO it’s a system long overdue for an overhaul at all levels. .... right down to how we punish (& rehabilitate those who prove worthy of the investment in doing so )

 

[Warshawski]

The quote in Blues Clues' post mentions that FFC did a video (presumably the walk-through interview for police). Was this shown at the inquest, or has anybody seen it? If so, did FFC point out where she thought William could have been when he was roaring? Did it show which areas of the garden she and William had visited earlier in the morning? Thanks.

Good point Stormy ..
Just revisiting my thoughts & I realised I had developed this picture in my mind of where he would’ve been, but I’m certainly curious to know what’s actually been documented .

 

[JLZ]

umm, well ok JLZ, I do see where you’re coming from ... but I also see relevant that this is an Appeal. It’s not as if there’s not already a known case.
It concerns me the time / $$ that are spent in our Courts.
IMO it’s a system long overdue for an overhaul at all levels. .... right down to how we punish (& rehabilitate those who prove worthy of the investment in doing so )

Even if it was allowable for the judge to read the transcript beforehand, and that's ten days of verbatim question and answer, it would have been time taken out from other cases that were currently running. So should those cases go slower while the judge works on other cases that haven't yet come up, which might even be withdrawn beforehand, or there could be a scheduling change and a different judge eventually assigned to the hearing? I mean, it's a lot of work, it's not just a matter of spending two or three hours each Sunday night to prepare for the week ahead.

I think you misinterpreted Cunneen's words about the judge being assisted by reading the transcript. Not, you'll have someone to help you to read the transcript, but, it will help you to read the full transcript, which was a polite way of saying the judge needed to do that because Cunneen's argument was based on the complete trial. IMO.

 

[stormbird]

Good point Stormy ..
Just revisiting my thoughts & I realised I had developed this picture in my mind of where he would’ve been, but I’m certainly curious to know what’s actually been documented .

Warshawski,
I agree. It certainly would be good to see what everyone involved in the case has actually said. My feeling is that we've only been told other people's interpretations.

 

[madoodi]

I had been so fixated on all the cars that I totally forgot the that he may have been taken on foot, as someone mentioned up thread.
Could it just have been someone out walking that came upon in in an opportunistic grab... (with a car or someone in a car nearby).
It's just the silence that gets to me..that there was no sound. Which makes me think there was a not a car in that exact moment of the abduction.

All MOO.