Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[Deleted member 102539]

Caroline Overington's book includes a few pages about Lindsay's police interview. I'm posting an edited quote: I had to snip for length, which made it harder to understand who is talking, so I added names at the start of each line and turned it into a script format. My notes are in [< brackets > ]

The book doesn't explain whether it's quoting Lindsay's words exactly, and it doesn't identify the locations or directions she talks about. ("Missing William Tyrrell", 2020, pp.82-6 in the paperback)

The interview was conducted by Detective Senior Constable Debra Nelson on Monday 15 Sep 2014, witnessed by Senior Constable Wendy Hudson.

"Lindsay led police toward the back deck, where she had been doing her drawing, and where her foster mum and her foster nana had been sitting having their tea.
<snip>
Lindsay: Um, William was playing on the balcony [meaning the small back deck] and then he went off and he was finding Daddy's car.
<snip>
Nelson: Oh, okay. And you said that he went off to find Daddy's car? How do you know he went off to find Daddy's car?
Lindsay: Because ... I don't know.
Nelson: Oh, you don't know? Where would he go when he went to find Daddy's car? Can you show me?
Lindsay: Down here.
Nelson: Down here? And Lindsay, when he went, when William went to find Daddy's car, where were you?
Lindsay: Here.
Nelson: Could you show me where?
Lindsay: Here.
Nelson: Was anyone else here?
Lindsay: Mummy and Nana.
<snip>
Nelson: A tiger. Can you show me how he was playing like a tiger?
Lindsay: Um, he kneels down on the ground and he said, roar.
Nelson: Okay. And then he went around there ... do you know why he went around there?
(No audible reply is recorded.)
Nelson: You don't know?
Lindsay: No.
Nelson: Okay, all right. Well, that's all I wanted to know ... what happened after he went around there and Mum and Nana were there?
Lindsay: I don't know.
<snip>
Nelson: No. Okay. Listen, Lindsay, has William ever gone to look for Daddy before?
Lindsay: I don't know.
Nelson: <snip> Does William go and look for Daddy when you live at that house there [meaning their own house]?
Lindsay: Yes.
Nelson: He does?
Lindsay: Yes.
Nelson: What does he do when he goes to look for Daddy there?
Lindsay: He just stays at the house.
Nelson: He stays at the house. Now, this is Nana's house, isn't it? Has William ever gone to look for Daddy when you've been here at Nana's house? You're shaking your head, no?
Lindsay: No."

It doesn't sound frank and free at all, although she was used to dealing with adults as a foster child. Certainly she was also used to say "Idk" - poor girl. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think Williams sister may have mentioned that he ran towards daddys car,not sure but someone will remember correctly....this has always baffled me

Maybe, first it was little W's sister. Then a member said, the cars looked very similar, when we talked about PS so much.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Im not 100% but didnt Paul Bickfords son have a similar Grey sedan and the mystery car that sounded like the posty

The Daily Telegraph
Paedophile Paul Bickford visits wife's home, group linked with him
^^^^ There has to be a pic of PB entering a car. It's not available for me.

 

[Loxoli]

So William’s sister wasn’t inside when he went missing? Was it just a rumour that she was inside going to the toilet?

 

[SouthAussie]

So William’s sister wasn’t inside when he went missing? Was it just a rumour that she was inside going to the toilet?

I think it was a protective measure that was being told. No-one wanted her to be put in any danger by possibly being a witness.

 

[SouthAussie]

It doesn't sound frank and free at all, although she was used to dealing with adults as a foster child. Certainly she was also used to say "Idk" - poor girl. MOO

I have a nephew who says 'I don't know' all the time - when in fact he does know, and has no fear.
He just doesn't want to think about the answer.
I don't think anyone should read too much into a young child saying I don't know.

I also don't think that Caroline Overington, or anyone other than the Coroner, has been given the totality of Lindsay's knowledge. There has been almost 6 years now for Lindsay to reveal more and more, as she has grown older and is better able to articulate ... and to articulate to people she is comfortable with, like her FPs (who could now be her adoptive parents, for all we know).

 

[interested64]

Yes, it was William's sister who said that. Because we were all surprised as it had been said that she saw nothing. Even though many of us thought she must have seen something and was being protected.

Who else's vehicle could have looked like daddy's? Savage's is the only one I can think of.

it is

 

[interested64]

I have a nephew who says 'I don't know' all the time - when in fact he does know, and has no fear.
He just doesn't want to think about the answer.
I don't think anyone should read too much into a young child saying I don't know.

I also don't think that Caroline Overington, or anyone other than the Coroner, has been given the totality of Lindsay's knowledge. There has been almost 6 years now for Lindsay to reveal more and more, as she has grown older and is better able to articulate ... and to articulate to people she is comfortable with, like her FPs (who could now be her adoptive parents, for all we know).

children in these family situations often get asked a lot of Q from either side etc so they do say it automaticly

 

[interested64]

Maybe, first it was little W's sister. Then a member said, the cars looked very similar, when we talked about PS so much.

yes i wasnt sure,but by the sounds of it she may have just presumed since they were waiting for ff to come home.

 

[Warshawski]

I remember only the driver having blonde hair.

Apologies. I think I was mistaken with memories from as reported here:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...nquest-he-saw-boy-in-car-20200309-p54872.html

‘and not another little blond boy in the back of the car that sped past his home’

 

[Warshawski]

M

I started to do a list, but I'm not sure it's complete. Anyway, here it is:


1. Fosters – Land rover discovery.

2. Foster Mother – Vehicles seen across the road: “Off white station wagon, tinted windows, dirty with damaged paintwork, boxy back, short front end, no hubcaps.” Maybe a Camry.

“Grey sedan, tinted windows, no hubcaps” Maybe a BA Falcon or a VN Commodore.

3. Vehicle seen driving past 48 Benaroon: “Dark Green/Grey Sedan; black plastic louvre, bronze centred wheels, tinted windows. Maybe a Ford LTD or a Holden Commodore, dark teal green almost grey, metallic paint.

4. FGM owned a dark grey Mazda.

5. Tim Palmer told of conversation with Michael McInally: “McInally said he saw a white commodore driving crazily down Batar creek rd. Man had right hand on steering wheel and was pushing something down with his left hand into the foot well.

6. Ronald Chapman: “Saw two cars seemingly being driven together down Laurel St. One an old fawn Toyota Land cruiser and an iridescent blue Ford sedan, six cylinder, tinted windows.”

7. Danny and Kathy Connell (Ronald Chapman’s nephew and wife): Old white ute crashed into sign.

8. Bill Spedding: 1999 Maroon Ford Fairlane

9. Unknown resident @ #38: Old white Toyota sedan

10. Paul & Heather Savage: maroon Ford Falcon & Silver Mitsubishi Pajero

11. Gregory Newton (Heather Savage’s brother): Dark Grey Isuzu utility

12. Tony Jones: white ute Ford courier that he resprayed blue: sometimes drove a white Toyota Camry station wagon (jones denies this).

13. Anonymous witness: a white ute belonging to ray porter? that Frank Abbott sometimes drove. Also owned a white station wagon that resembled the car FM saw according to Danny Parish.

14. Kendall store owner: well dressed man who asked for directions to Benaroon dr driving a grey station wagon.

15. Tony Bickford : Drove a white holden Commodore.

16. Elizabeth Rowley (antique shop owner) said Abbott came to her shop to sell her things on one occasion driving a “white station wagon”.

17. Frank Abbott: told inquest he went to a log dump and saw two men in a “white station wagon” who had a young boy with them. One he said was Jones this was around July 2015 (Jones denied).

Awesome work - thank you

 

[Warshawski]

Yes, it was William's sister who said that. Because we were all surprised as it had been said that she saw nothing. Even though many of us thought she must have seen something and was being protected.

Who else's vehicle could have looked like daddy's? Savage's is the only one I can think of.

just a random thought - IF William did run out towards what he thought was ‘Daddy’s Car’ - could that have been a car he glimpsed going past - even the Savage car - put it took him / put him on the Road for pickup by another ?

This is very far fetched - yep, for me too, but I’m trying to look at every possibility. There is One that provides the Answer ...

 

[Warshawski]

Caroline Overington's book includes a few pages about Lindsay's police interview. I'm posting an edited quote: I had to snip for length, which made it harder to understand who is talking, so I added names at the start of each line and turned it into a script format. My notes are in [< brackets > ]

The book doesn't explain whether it's quoting Lindsay's words exactly, and it doesn't identify the locations or directions she talks about. ("Missing William Tyrrell", 2020, pp.82-6 in the paperback)

The interview was conducted by Detective Senior Constable Debra Nelson on Monday 15 Sep 2014, witnessed by Senior Constable Wendy Hudson.

"Lindsay led police toward the back deck, where she had been doing her drawing, and where her foster mum and her foster nana had been sitting having their tea.
<snip>
Lindsay: Um, William was playing on the balcony [meaning the small back deck] and then he went off and he was finding Daddy's car.
<snip>
Nelson: Oh, okay. And you said that he went off to find Daddy's car? How do you know he went off to find Daddy's car?
Lindsay: Because ... I don't know.
Nelson: Oh, you don't know? Where would he go when he went to find Daddy's car? Can you show me?
Lindsay: Down here.
Nelson: Down here? And Lindsay, when he went, when William went to find Daddy's car, where were you?
Lindsay: Here.
Nelson: Could you show me where?
Lindsay: Here.
Nelson: Was anyone else here?
Lindsay: Mummy and Nana.
<snip>
Nelson: A tiger. Can you show me how he was playing like a tiger?
Lindsay: Um, he kneels down on the ground and he said, roar.
Nelson: Okay. And then he went around there ... do you know why he went around there?
(No audible reply is recorded.)
Nelson: You don't know?
Lindsay: No.
Nelson: Okay, all right. Well, that's all I wanted to know ... what happened after he went around there and Mum and Nana were there?
Lindsay: I don't know.
<snip>
Nelson: No. Okay. Listen, Lindsay, has William ever gone to look for Daddy before?
Lindsay: I don't know.
Nelson: <snip> Does William go and look for Daddy when you live at that house there [meaning their own house]?
Lindsay: Yes.
Nelson: He does?
Lindsay: Yes.
Nelson: What does he do when he goes to look for Daddy there?
Lindsay: He just stays at the house.
Nelson: He stays at the house. Now, this is Nana's house, isn't it? Has William ever gone to look for Daddy when you've been here at Nana's house? You're shaking your head, no?
Lindsay: No."

My heart just breaks ..

 

[Warshawski]

I have a nephew who says 'I don't know' all the time - when in fact he does know, and has no fear.
He just doesn't want to think about the answer.
I don't think anyone should read too much into a young child saying I don't know.

I also don't think that Caroline Overington, or anyone other than the Coroner, has been given the totality of Lindsay's knowledge. There has been almost 6 years now for Lindsay to reveal more and more, as she has grown older and is better able to articulate ... and to articulate to people she is comfortable with, like her FPs (who could now be her adoptive parents, for all we know).

Great comment SA. Thank you.

In my experience, Kids are totally un-to-themselves, bless them

and I recognise & understand your comment re your nephew ‘ not wanting to think’... why should he give that much attention, it doesn’t have much significance for him, life’s all good for him ..and for so many other kids who go through their blissful journey ..

However, the situation was very different for this little girl.

A life of turmoil somewhat transformed by a ‘family’ placement.

Suddenly her young brother is missing! I can’t imagine what it was like for her (I’d guess she may’ve seen herself as ‘big sister protector’ - I was like that with little ones at boarding school & I wasn’t even related)

Poor darling, I can’t begin to imagine, I wonder :
* what thoughts & emotions kicked in for her
* what memories came to her
* what instincts / survival tactics did she employ
* what’s safe to Say vs what Not
* etc, etc ..

I can’t even begin to imagine the trauma for her. I can only pray for her & her ability to balance & rise above, in her honour & William’s name.

 

[kiwi50]

I have a nephew who says 'I don't know' all the time - when in fact he does know, and has no fear.
He just doesn't want to think about the answer.
I don't think anyone should read too much into a young child saying I don't know.

I also don't think that Caroline Overington, or anyone other than the Coroner, has been given the totality of Lindsay's knowledge. There has been almost 6 years now for Lindsay to reveal more and more, as she has grown older and is better able to articulate ... and to articulate to people she is comfortable with, like her FPs (who could now be her adoptive parents, for all we know).

And I for one hope she has been adopted by the FP’s.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

And I for one hope she has been adopted by the FP’s.

I'll wait and see before I say that. But I can already say: the adoptive child in my own family is doing extremely well. Difference: the parents of this child let it go voluntarily after birth.

 

[SouthAussie]

Great comment SA. Thank you.

In my experience, Kids are totally un-to-themselves, bless them

and I recognise & understand your comment re your nephew ‘ not wanting to think’... why should he give that much attention, it doesn’t have much significance for him, life’s all good for him ..and for so many other kids who go through their blissful journey ..

However, the situation was very different for this little girl.

A life of turmoil somewhat transformed by a ‘family’ placement.

Suddenly her young brother is missing! I can’t imagine what it was like for her (I’d guess she may’ve seen herself as ‘big sister protector’ - I was like that with little ones at boarding school & I wasn’t even related)

Poor darling, I can’t begin to imagine, I wonder :
* what thoughts & emotions kicked in for her
* what memories came to her
* what instincts / survival tactics did she employ
* what’s safe to Say vs what Not
* etc, etc ..

I can’t even begin to imagine the trauma for her. I can only pray for her & her ability to balance & rise above, in her honour & William’s name.

Exactly. Completely traumatised.

Should she tell what she knows?
Will she get in trouble for not running and telling mummy right away? Will she be in trouble with the police?
What will her BP think .. will she be in trouble with them?
Her mummy and daddy are crying all the time .. what should she do?
If she was naughty by not telling what happened right away, will her mummy and daddy not want her any more?
Will the 'agency' come and take her away?

So many things could have been running through her mind.
The part about her being in the loo could even be accurate. She may have gone there to get away from whatever happened. William could have been gone by then.

I hope that now she may feel more secure, not feel that she will be taken away, and may have revealed more about that morning and whatever could have happened to William. If she knows anything significant at all.

 

[SouthAussie]

When a child says, “I don’t know”

Sometimes they don’t want to talk with us, and at a surprisingly young age, children learn they can avoid engaging in thoughtful discussion by giving the notorious “I don’t know” response to our questions.

We see this in counseling. Kids say “I don’t know” instinctively, almost without thought. It also comes with an expectation that I, as the counselor, will move on to another topic, or do as many other adults and answer the question myself. Possibly I will begin lecturing as well, which simply requires the child’s ability to endure my rant.

When a child says, "I don't know" - CareLeader -

 

[Georgy]

Except number 14 was explained at inquest..Dr Sleuth do you have notes on this?

M

Awesome work - thank you

 

[SLouTh]

Except number 14 was explained at inquest..Dr Sleuth do you have notes on this?

@Georgy do you mean this one? Was explained at the inquest?

14. Kendall store owner: well dressed man who asked for directions to Benaroon dr driving a grey station wagon.

Would be great to finally have an answer on who this was...